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Painting, spraybooths and explosion proof fans

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  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Painting, spraybooths and explosion proof fans
Posted by MikeV on Monday, January 3, 2005 5:43 PM
This subject comes up quite a bit on the forum and people are always afraid of a fan igniting the paint fumes so I asked my friend Scooter about it since I want to make an exhaust system to take fumes out of my side door in the garage for airbrushing helmets, motorcycle tanks, etc down the road.
Here is what he told me in regards to worrying about a boxfan in the doorway to exhaust the paint from the room:
QUOTE: In a commercial installation, "explosion proof" or "hazardous area" motors and bearings are required. But, the bottom line is, paint solvents have a higher combustion temperature point than any spark that such a fan could generate. It won't happen, and I've never heard of it happening. It does happen with cooking grease that is vaporized, but that is because the hot grease is expanding from heat while being compressed into the exhaust chamber, not due to sparks. The physics won't allow it, but there are those who might argue the point with me. I was in a spray booth explosion when I was 13 that was caused by a broken incandescent lamp. No fan, and the booth was full of alkyd enamel fumes. It went poof! Was a flash, hot of course, and over in a split second. No damage other than a mild sunburn. There isn't a fuel source to continue a blast or fire, so it is over quickly. There really isn't that much flammable material in the overspray vapor.
Figure you are shooting a spraygun with a 1 qt can. You will mix it maybe half full of the stuff you want to do at most. That's 16 oz total, 85 % goes on the surface, and 50% of the remaining 15% is solid, non explosive material. Half of the remaining 7.5% evaporates immediately upon leaving the gun head. That leaves 3.75% to go through a fan (solvents). That means, that if you could put the entire gunfull in the air at precisely the same instant, you would have 6/10 of an ounce of solvents in the air. Go outside, and pour 6/10 of an ounce of reducer out and light it. It won't even light a charcoal grille. And, you can't put that much in the air at once anyway.


Now I in no way condone anything unsafe and I am a very safe worker on my job and at home so don't think this is irresponsible.
I suppose some will disagree with him and Gip may have something to say about it also being that this is his area of expertise, but I trust my friend as he has been airbrushing and spray painting cars since 1962 and he is a wealth of information.
Just thought I would pass this along to maybe ease your minds if you are worried about building a spray booth for modeling. Big Smile [:D]

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 3, 2005 9:35 PM
First, I trust empirical evidence to show what works and doesn't work. So I'm all for testing your setup (paints, volumes, flow, etc..) in a safe situation and seeing if it is safe or not.

Lot's of factors are involved before one can tell if a given situation will or won't ignite. Given the right compound, in sufficient concentration, I have little doubt that even the most minute spark formed by the typical open motor could produce ignition. Flash points of many organic solvents are astonishingly low - e.g. below zero F. Whether or not these conditions exist in any given paint setup can really only be determined through experimentation. I'm sure one could manage the above factors and get a setup that works without significant risk.

The main thing that I'd be concerned about is that remaining portion that does evaporate - along with whatever evaporates from the surface. Digging back to my college chemistry days, I would think it's those gas-phase vapors, depending on the compounds involved, which are the most susceptible to ignition, not the liquid-phase mist droplets.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Monday, January 3, 2005 10:08 PM
I talked to another guy tonight who uses a boxfan to exhaust the overspray of clears he sprays on airbrushed license plates. He said in the past 6 weeks he has cleared over 700 plates and never had a single problem.

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: Kennesaw, GA
Posted by jdavidb on Tuesday, January 4, 2005 7:28 AM
Does the same thing happen with 3/5 of an ounce? Just kidding.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Posted by Jeeves on Tuesday, January 4, 2005 11:04 AM
The Mythbusters did an episode on this not long ago...well-- actually they tested the insect foggers and the chances of a house blowing up....it did take a lot to get the poof but it did happen Wink [;)] and it was over fast.
Mike
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posted by maddafinga on Tuesday, January 4, 2005 1:12 PM
Oooh, I do love my Mythbusters. That's one of the few real science based, skeptical, programs on tv today. I've seen them do the same thing with gasoline vapors and struggle to get them to go off with a lit match in an enclosed space. Just because it's unlikely to detonate however, doesn't mean it's impossible. If possible I'd want to err on the side of caution. I think what Mike is saying however, is that if money is really an object, you'll probably be safe enough to make do with what you've got.
Madda Trifles make perfection, but perfection is no trifle. -- Leonardo Da Vinci Tact is for those who lack the wit for sarcasm.--maddafinga
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Tuesday, January 4, 2005 2:04 PM
Thanks Josh.
I think also that when most things explode it is because they are in a stagnant state where they can accumulate. I think if you have that fan going from the minute you started spraying until after you were done then the possiblity of an explosion is almost impossible. The parts per million of the vapor combined with the steady flow of air makes it hard to believe that it could explode although nothing is impossible.

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    January 2005
Posted by danpik on Wednesday, January 5, 2005 10:42 AM
I would have to agree with mike. I don't think you could get the air/fuel mixture just right for the explosion to happen. The other thing to keep in mind with these small fans is that most all of them now-a-days are induction motors. This means there are no brushes riding on armatures creating posible sparks.

Dan
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Wednesday, January 5, 2005 6:31 PM
Good point Dan. I concur. Wink [;)]

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
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