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  • Member since
    May 2003
Airbrushes
Posted by karlwb on Friday, May 23, 2003 1:13 PM
Hello Smile [:)]

I’m thinking of buying a new airbrush, I have had a look at a few and I can’t decide between these three.
Badger Model 175 Crescendo or Model 155 Anthem
or Aztek A4709. All are dual action, and appear similar on paper.
I would like to know what you think, does anybody use any of these airbrushes?
And if so would you recommend any one in particular over
the other.

Thanks

Karl

ps: newbe - hope I posted this in the correct placeWink [;)]
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Syracuse, NY
Posted by ADleitch on Friday, May 23, 2003 1:51 PM
Hi karlwb,

I have both the A4709 and the Badger 155 Anthem, both are good, but will admit to using the Anthem alot more. I find it much easier to use. Mine also came with a spare needle and cone, which on this model covers fine through wide, so no having to have 3 seperate needles.
Its Better to Burn out than to Fade Away!!!
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Oak Harbor, WA
Posted by Kolja94 on Friday, May 23, 2003 3:10 PM
I use the Aztek and am pretty pleased with it - in my opinion you can't go too far wrong with it. But I've never used the other brushes so don't really have much basis for comparison.

Cool name by the way.

Karl

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: East Bethel, MN
Posted by midnightprowler on Friday, May 23, 2003 4:49 PM
I have the Crescendo, and I love it. It is well balanced, if you get the kit, it comes with 3 tips and needles, 2 small glass jars, 1 large one, and 1 small color cup. Hope this helps.
Lee

Hi, I am Lee, I am a plastiholic.

Co. A, 682 Engineers, Ltchfield, MN, 1980-1986

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

Ask me about Speedway Decals

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Friday, May 23, 2003 7:56 PM
You didn't mention the best Badger airbrush in my opinion; the Omni. I personally would get an Omni myself. I have a modified version of the Omni 3000 and it is awesome. The Anthem is also good but I think the Omni is better. The Vega is also a good choice as I have two of them also. The Crescendo is also a good airbrush but it is too bulky for my tastes. I like airbrushes with a thinner body. I wouldn't even consider an Aztek personally as I don't care for the design at all.

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Wingman_kz on Saturday, May 24, 2003 8:28 AM
Welcome Karl

I have an Aztec A430 and I guess it's ok. It sure beats a rattle can. I keep it clean but I sometimes have problems with it leaking behind the nozzle. You really have to crank that sucker down to keep it from leaking and I just know it's gonna break.

I'll say right now that I'm not that experienced with an airbrush but it seems to me like there's too much of a difference between the nozzles. One's to small, the next is too big. Maybe it's just me. I don't mean to offend anyone but to me, it seems like a toy. I really don't like that little plastic air line.

So let me ask a question here too, k?

I want a real air brush. I want one that will last and that will be a competent tool. If I can't lay down a good paint job then what is the point of building? I'm mainly building cars and I want to learn to do fades and flames and scallops and to be able to do lettering and striping without using decals for everything. I know it won't happen overnite, it's gonna take time and practice, but I don't want some crappy brush that I'm gonna have to fuss over and fight with all the time.

Here's the question(s). Am I gonna need two brushes? One for general painting and one for fine work? What are the advantages of gravity feed over bottom feed? I have some ideas but can you folks fill me in? What about the Omni Matrix or 360 Universal Badger brushes that can be used either as gravity or bottom feed? Too universal? Why a Badger or a Paasche or an Iwata? What makes you favor one over the other?

One more, have any of you used the Paasche Air Eraser?

Karl, I hope you didn't mind me throwing a couple of my own questions in here...

Tony

            

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Wingman_kz on Saturday, May 24, 2003 8:34 AM
and Congratulations Lee!

I see you're over 500 posts!

Tony

            

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Portugal
Posted by lito.sf on Saturday, May 24, 2003 8:54 AM
I just bought an Iwata eclipse gravity feed and must say that i´m astonished with the results, a litle expensive though.
Dont forget the air suply solution, it´s as important as the airbrush.
Have fun
Lito
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: USA
Posted by naplak on Saturday, May 24, 2003 9:10 AM
If you are looking at the Anthem or the Omni 3000, you might want to conside the Badger 360 Universal. It is like the anthem except that it will work as a syphon feed or a gravity feed. I use it as a gravity feed 90% of the time tho...

The Anthem and the Universal were designed somewhat after the Omni, and have a lot of the same design features.
www.naplak.com/modeling ... a free site for modelers www.scalehobby.com/forum/index.php ... a nice Modeling Forum
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Saturday, May 24, 2003 2:06 PM
Tony,

There are a lot of good airbrushes that would fit the bill including the ones the mentioned. When you ask about possibly needed one for general painting and one for "fine work" I have to ask what you mean by fine work?

You mentioned doing "lettering" with the airbrush. What exactly do you mean by that? If you mean writing very small letters on a 1/24th scale car then you will need a really fine tip airbrush along the lines of a Badger Sotar 20/20 or Iwata Micron, although I don't think many model paints would flow well through the Micron and I don't know if you would want to spend $250 on an airbrush.

My Omni 3000 will spray from a 1/16" line up to about a 2" wide line at 60 psi with acrylic T-shirt paints.

The Omni Matrix you mentioned might be a good choice also if you want an airbrush that will work as both gravity feed and siphon feed, but for model work you really don't need to use a siphon feed because you don't use that much paint really.

The Omni 4000 would be a good choice since it has a 1/3 ounce cup on top which is plenty of paint for any car model.

It all depends on what exactly you want to do.

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Sunny Florida
Posted by renarts on Saturday, May 24, 2003 3:10 PM
All of the brushes so far mentioned are good. You have to ask yourself what you are willing to spend. I would say get the best airbrush you can afford. Even if it hurts a little. If you have the opportunity to use different brushes before you decide on one it will help immensley. But I will say up front that there is NO MAGIC AIRBRUSH that works perfectly everytime and does not have its own set of quirks. Think of it in terms of fishing. All the equipment, boats, lures and baits are not going to make you any better a fisherman than the guy with a cane pole. Its how you fish that determines success.
Practice makes perfect and until you become comfortable and competent with it, practicing with it, experimenting with it and learning its action, all the money in the world won't help you. And you'll have an expensive straw from which to blow paint with. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone nor am I judging anyone, but how many of you guys sat down with your airbrush one day and did nothing but shoot water through it onto paper to detrmine the threshold of operation and to get the feel of the airbrush, practiced making lines, dots, shapes, tried distances and experimented, compared to how many of you sat down and loaded her up with paint, shot a few lines at the paper and then hit the model?

All airbrushes wear out. Needles, tips and caps are wear parts and need to be replaced dependent on amount of use, media pushed and maintenance performed. So there is no one time purchase.

Brushes are broken down into different catgories, external mix, single action needle in body, fixed double action, single action diffuser,indpendent double action and turbines. This does not include guns, sprayers and other specialty and different application airbrushes and guns. Just what you would likely need for models.

The two major differences that many here are involved with are single action and double action.Single actions use a simple air on and air off process. You manually adjust the paint flow for each application.Double action uses a valve and lever to adjust both paint flow and air flow, allowing you to perform different tasks just by moving the trigger back and forth and up and down. Everything is at your finger tips so to speak.

As for paint feed that is dependent on your own desire and what form of brush you decide on. Gravity feed cups have the advantage of easy clean, good paint flow, less work, but they use smaller amounts of paint and you must alter your work habits according to if you have a cap for the cup or not. 3D piant jobs will undoubtedly lead to some pretty weird hand angles. If your gravity cup doesn't have a cap you're going to paint your floor or bench.

Airbrushes are complex yet simple at the same time. Troubleshooting is not hard and usually only requires problem solving and an understanding of the mechanics and the ability to think through the problem. Sometimes not every fix works and that means a replacement. But that is part of this.

BTW Wingman....don't keep cranking it down, look for a gasket to make the fix. Air leaks out because there is a gap (no matter how minute)or at some point you crossthreaded the head. Try a new head, if that doesn't work then its the body. Last I remembered Aztek offered a lifetime on the body. Other problems with Aztek regarding splatter is simply because while cleaning the head the needle was inadvertently pushed up and damaged. This will cause it to sputter. Usually the last of the troubleshooting checks after all others have failed.

Other factors that you will have to experiment with are going to be paint mixing, thinner type, additive, air supply, mixing ratio, temperature, humidity, paint type, age, did it settle before you put it into the cup, does it have more pigment in it, how do you measure your mixing ratio. I personaly use a baby bird feeding hypodermic needle or horse syringes. This allows me to pull paint up from the bottle and acurately measure paint volume when mixing. Don't rely on looking at the "consistency of milk" if you want accurate and consistent results. While it no doubt works for some, paint in a 1 oz spray cup reacts differently than milk in a glass. Whole milk, raw milk, skim milk, no fat? all have different consistencies. Also milk does not have solid particles like paint pigment in it. So it will react differently. The more precise you can be the more consistent your results and the easier it will be able to match up your paint job if you have to go over it. Don't get me wrong its not that others methods don't work, because obviously they do. But they are not there to match their perceived results with yours. So what comparison can be made? What works for them is their experimentation and familiarity of use. You will have to develop your own and that means failure before success.

Don't expect it to do more than it or you are capable of. I've used quite a few models ranging from cheap craft store brushes all the way to big ticket turbo brushes. RIght now I'm using an Aztek and I like it. It's pretty versatile and I have had great success with it. Check out the Armour section and look for Panzer II photos. I did it with an Aztek. I've been interested in the metal bodied version that is released and that might be the ticket for that product line.

Good luck
Mike
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Wingman_kz on Saturday, May 24, 2003 5:02 PM
Thank you all for your input. I'm afraid I overslept today and only had a couple of minutes to glance over what you had to say. Big Smile [:D] I'll be back in the morning.

One thing, all the tips on my Aztec will leak. Maybe it's in my mind and the torque I have to use on them is normal, but I don't think so. They're just plastic and I know they're gonna break. Maybe I should contact them about it. I don't have trouble with splatter, just the leaking. I have practiced with it. With water and paint. I'm just not real crazy about it.

As for the detail work, most of it will be using masking and not freehand. I don't think I have enough artist in me for working freehand.

Thanks guys.

Tony

            

  • Member since
    May 2003
Posted by karlwb on Sunday, May 25, 2003 5:34 PM
Thanks for the information Smile [:)]

I will probably go for one of the Badger Airbrushes, as far as price goes I am looking to spend around £120-£140 GBP.

Thanks again.

Karl
Big Smile [:D]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 26, 2003 12:29 PM
DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT EVER go near an Aztek brush. The two I own are complete pieces of (insert expletive here). My double action imploded (parts on the inside disintegrated and can't be repaired, so i'm out some 150 bucks, CDN) and my single action leaks paint, won't draw paint, sprays air out the ****** end (!?), and sometimes, just completely refuses to work. Honest to god, the handle won't even depress (before you ask, it's clean).
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 26, 2003 11:33 PM
I must concur with cader28's non-endorsement of the Aztek. I have had the A470 for about 6 months now and about an hour ago I packed it back in it's spiffy little wooden box and tossed it into a dark cabinet where I don't have to look at it any more.
Yes it truly is a piece of poo in my opinion.I never could come to terms with the chincy feeling of it. I bought it thinking it was supposed to be one of the best airbrushes out there. I kept on plugging away with it thinking I was doing something wrong. I kept it meticulously clean and tried every combination of pressure, paint and thinner possible.
After reading several threads in this forum from other dissatisfied Aztek users I finally decided maybe it's not me after all.. I tried one more session with it today and that was it.
My wife would cut me up into tiny little pieces with an X-Acto if I went out and bought yet another airbrush after dumping the better part of a $100.00 bill on this wreckage so I pulled my trusty old Paasche-H out of mothballs and shined her up..Thank God I didn't throw it out after I purchased the Mother of all airbrushes..
I wish this forum would have been around just a little sooner. I could have made a lot more informed decision
I can't advise anybody what to get, but I can advise what NOT to get
I can't say it any better than cader28....DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT EVER go near an Aztek brush.. [at least not unless you want to hear a loud chorus of "WE told you sos"
To those of you who are having good success with your Azteks---Congratulations. You have my profound admiration. Mavbe you could tell the rest of us what we're doing wrong.

told you sos"]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 2:14 AM

Hi,

Just a little history first-
Aztek was original a brush developed for fine arts in the early 90's by a seperate company, it lasted for about a year or two before it was bought out by Testor's and then marketed to modelers. Testors unfortunately made several changes to the internal makeup of the orignal brush, replacing, even in the newer metallic airbrush, metal parts in the original with plastic ones. Also I'd like to point out that the plastic used in, I believe, all aztek's is a high quality polycarbonate, resistant to almost all solvents and extremely strong, so it's not like the plastic used in the handles of Paasches which if exposed to laquer thinner will disolve.
The brush in itself when it came out contained one of the first truelly variable air supply regulators, a feature that you can't get today except with the extreme high end like the micron.
If you can find one of these original Azteks which are completely black, and are in a tube shaped grey case, you might have a different experiance with them.
Over the years I've found that there have been at least 3 or 4 different nozzle designs/evolutions, personally I have a lot of success with the newer black acrylic nozzle sold with the cheap double action design, it has an exposed needle that's easy to clean if it gets mucked up and can do very good detail, at least as good as a medium head on a badger. Also this nozzle is extremly cheap, less than $10 which way beats the replacement cost of any needle/nozzle of even the cheapest badgers. I have 2 of these, one that I use on my new metal aztek that I converted the internals to metal with aztek classic parts, and I've completed roughly a dozen or so models with these nozzles solely and not had any trouble whatsoever.

The only real beefs I've had with the aztek is that it wastes a lot of paint in the cup cause it has a flat cup bottom as opposed to the narrowing point of almost every other airbrush in the color cup(what do you expect from a paint company selling an airbrush<chuckle>). I've actually made my own side/gravity feed cups for my aztek that siphon the paint much more efficiantly and waste a lot less paint.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:59 PM
I advise against aztek, If you have experienced the amount of trouble, swearing, ripping, ripped hair, and about $250 in ruined models. Just get an iwata or omni
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 2:53 AM
I had an original Aztek, which was a GOOD brush, very good. Coming back into the hobby now I purchased a "testors" Aztek and it is NOT the same thing. This testors piece of junk is a waste of money. I have gotten an Omni 4000 gravity with the advice and help of Mike I am exceptionaly happy now.... Look on the plane forum at my apache to see what my skill level (lower then mikes)has done with it.
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Bicester, England
Posted by KJ200 on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 3:09 AM
Karl, from the GBP, I'm assuming that you're in the UK too.

This could get confusing as I'm Karl tooConfused [%-)] though It's nice to some else with it spelt properly!

I posted a response to an earlier question from a UK forum member, which may well be of interest to you. See the link below:

www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24525

Like Woodbeck, and numerous others I went the Omni 4000 route, and haven't looked back.

If I can help anymore give me a shout.

The other Karl

Currently on the bench: AZ Models 1/72 Mig 17PF

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