For those who think Azteks are no good

One problem I got with the Aztek airbrushes is that they are advertising certain properties that IMO are NOT true.

Many A/B novices buy them because they are said to be easier to handle, clean, etc than other airbrushes and this, IMHO, is false or atleast misleading advertisement.

Agreed, a dedicated and experienced person can do great things with them but , IMO, they are not that well suited for model building and the materials that we use.

I would agree MM.
Testors would have them also believe that they need 5 different nozzles to perform different functions. It is all sales my friend.

Mike

I'm taking a big chance here, Mike, and I'm hoping that site really isn't you ar a friend of yours.

I wasn't that impressed.

I'll probably regret this post........

Impressed or not, I guess 'art' is quite a subjective matter.

Further, I'm not sure why Aztec would not be suited to our hobby. Can you two elaborate on that please, especially the part regarding the materials we use...? Wasn't aware that materials to be painted had anything to do with the choice of airbrush.

Just out of curiosity, have you guys seen some of the work in Tamiya Modelling Mag? It's quite a good publication, with some very nice builds, and I've seen the editor use an Aztec quite often...

The aztek needles are quiet porous and thus tend to build up quickly fast-drying paints like acrylics, etc in the nozzles.

A few years ago the Figure garage kit builders went gaga over the aztek airbrushes a few months later they slammed them like mad for not performing as advertised.
Some of those guys are rated as top builders that even went to japan to compete against the worlds best there.

If you can't see that the materials we use influence our choice of tools I am shocked.

Yeah, seen the works in TMM and some of them to be honest are worse than what I have seen in local competitions.

I still stand by my opinion that the Azteks don't perform as advertised and that it takes a dedicated and skilled person to get a decent finish with them.
Now take a Badger, Iwata or similar A/B and most people will get a better finish than a person with the same skill level using an Aztek. Plus, those brushes are easier to clean and trouble shoot, IMHO.

Zok and MM, I think you two are missing each other's points on the "materials" issue.

MM, you're talking about the paints, right? That is, acrylics, enamels, etc., right?
Zok, you're talking about what's being painted, right? Styrene, resin, vinyl, etc., right?

So I think you both have valid points about each of your...um...points!
Of course the type of paint you'll be blowing through your brush is a big factor, as MM said. If Aztecs can't handle acrylics, then that's a problem.

I think what Zok was saying was that it doesn't matter what type of material you're spraying on, as far as airbrush choice goes, which is true to a certain extent.

For example, if you're working with a vinyl kit, you'll be using acrylics or other water-based paints, which evidently the Aztec works poorly with. So in a case like that, the material you're painting on would definitely be a factor, because it would influence the material you're painting with.

See what I mean?

About that guy's art, I was very impressed with his animals. He does a great job capturing the expression of fur.
I wasn't too impressed with his naked ladies, though!
Overall, an impressive artist, nonetheless.
If I ever want a Molly Hatchet album cover sprayed on the hood of a '33 Willies Gasser, he's the guy I'm gonna call!

For those unfamiliar with the '33 Willies Gasser, a pic:


For those unfamiliar with Molly Hatchett album covers, do a Google!

Or think, "Frazetta..."

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hatewall I'm taking a big chance here, Mike, and I'm hoping that site really isn't you ar a friend of yours. I wasn't that impressed. I'll probably regret this post........

No he is not a friend and I do not even know him.
I found his website from the airbrush.com forums where some of the top airbrush artists in the world post. I don't know why you weren't impressed as I think some of his artwork is outstanding. But art is in the eye of the beholder.

Mike

I am with Hatewall on this one... I seen you post better links Mike.

Mike youre giving the feleing you took what Hatewall said a little personal, when its really apparent he did not mean it as you seemed to have taken it.

Zokissima why would you have Model Museum explain himself??? To me that needs an explanation because he made a statement from his own opinion, I would like to know whats going on in your head and where its at.
I agree that the Aztek has a hard time handling some of the paint materials we use and should really be used by a more experienced model ab'er who has more experience in thinner ratio's and pressures.
When all else fails just add some Aqua Flow retarder (smells nice too) and tip dry doesnt become to bad a problem.

The bulldog

QUOTE: Originally posted by woodbeck3 Zokissima why would you have Model Museum explain himself??? To me that needs an explanation because he made a statement from his own opinion, I would like to know whats going on in your head and where its at.

Zokissima's request for a follow up was politely posed. MM's initial post was somewhat vague as to the reasons that he held his opinion. I too was wondering how our materials would influence one brand of airbrush vs. another. MM's follow up, particularly the part about the needles was interesting to me.

Well, I have experience in these matters. (Having used an aztek and now having a badger) First off let me say the badger is MUCH better. Having said that, the Aztek does produce some very decent finishes and is not a junk brush as some people seem to think. My main thing with it was that it was inconsistent, tough to clean, the nozzles spattered, and inability to maintain a consistent fine line. These are all things the badger does superior.

QUOTE: Originally posted by woodbeck3 I am with Hatewall on this one... I seen you post better links Mike.

So have I, I just haven't seen an artist yet that uses the Aztek exclusively.

QUOTE: Mike youre giving the feleing you took what Hatewall said a little personal, when its really apparent he did not mean it as you seemed to have taken it.

No, I did not take it personally at all. If he was not impressed than that is his opinion.
As an airbrush artist I think the guy does some really nice work considering the airbrush he chooses to use. I couldn't paint wolves like he did even with my Sotar.

Mike

sotar eh? Is that a really good brush?

So i picked up an old FSM with an "airbrush round-up" that said great things about the 470, I hadn't been in the hobby since Swarzkopf was a corporal. I says to myself, I says, "These guys know what they're talking about. I'll buy that one!" And I do. It came in the mail on Monday. Tuesday I go to this forum for the first time to find this debate on whether or not I just made a bad choice with the 470. YOU GUYS ARE FREAKING ME OUT MAN!!! (actually I''m learning a lot from both sides. Thanks.)

They are not bad A/B perse, but they do need TLC and quiet a bit of experimenting to get it all working right.

There are many guys that are happy with them.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tankmaster7 sotar eh? Is that a really good brush?

It's the best one Badger makes as far as fine lines and atomization.
It is Badger's equivalent of the Iwata Micron.

Mike

I am gonna buy a sotar very soon, been eye balling one at Coast.

woodbeck3, please try to read the posts entirely, try to UNDERSTAND them, then defend anyone you feel warrants it.

My question of MM was not an attack on his opinion, but was a question to elaborate. From his explanation, I understood him saying that the materials we paint ON have an effect on which AB spits out the paint, as J-Hulk correctly recognized, and this is something which did not make sense to me, so I asked for an elaboration.

MM:

QUOTE: Plus, those brushes are easier to clean and trouble shoot, IMHO

I'll trust your opinion on this one. I've used my friends Iwata, and it's not nearly as anal as an Aztec for it's need to be clean. The nozzles do seem a little flimsy, and get a lot of paint trapped inside of the housing, every time I AB.

On the acrylics point, I've been shooting acrylics exclusively thorugh the aztec, and it has not given me any problems, but again, I stress the fact that it does not give any problems provided the nozzle is throughly soaked after each use.

QUOTE: Tuesday I go to this forum for the first time to find this debate on whether or not I just made a bad choice with the 470. YOU GUYS ARE FREAKING ME OUT MAN!!! (actually I''m learning a lot from both sides. Thanks.)

The O-N-L-Y person that has to be content with your purchase is you. What anyone else says about the Aztek is completely immaterial if you are content with the way it works. There are people who get absolutely fantastic results with the Azteks and there are others that think they are junk. This is going to be the case with anything in which there is more than one brand. Treat your airbrush well, keep it clean, and as long as you are happy with it that's all that matters.

Scott, Amen to that!

I stand Corrected Then Zok. I did read your post but I reacted to how you chose your wording, not your opinion. anyways lets move on.

Mike,

When I originally posted, I was a little short. I should have posted that the animals are very nice and well beyond my level of skill. I think wildlife is his niche. I think when I clicked your link my expectations were to see God.

I used an Aztek when they first came out. I had to be very disciplined and strain everything, and run thinner through it frequently. It seemed like once those little tip assemblies plugged up, they were toast.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hatewall Mike, I think when I clicked your link my expectations were to see God.

You can't see God as he is invisible.

I know what you mean though. There is an illustrator that uses the Aztek sometimes also and I posted an illustration on this forum a while back of a teddy bear in a glass vase that he painted. It was incredible.

Mike

I think the whole problem lies in the fact that the Aztec tips were designed to be disposable. They were not meant to be cleaned (at least well). But at $8-10 a pop, who's throwing these things out? No thanks. My trusty Badger has never done me wrong. (At least for long)

Here's a master detailer who exlusively uses an Aztek:
http://hsgalleries.com/fw190d932cw_1.htm
http://hsgalleries.com/fw190d9black1cw_1.htm
http://hsgalleries.com/bf109g6black14cw_1.htm

I've been using an Aztec & have just ordered a Badger 100LG, so I'll be interested how it goes. As other have suggested above, it's the cleaning that lets down the Aztec. The nozzles are >$20 a piece in Oz & although I strip & clean mine after every use I still have trouble. The other problem is the 'spitting' which seems common. It is controlled to some extent by sorting out pressure/needle/thinning but the Aztec's are very prone to this problem.

I have been using an Aztec for a couple of years now. As long as I am painting enamels it works just fine for me. I recently bought a Badger Anthem airbrush and have been using that now. Maybe its just the learning curve with the new airbrush, but at this point in the game I am missing my trusty old Aztec. I agree with above posts regarding the Aztecs inability to paint acrylics. I guess I just learned something, I always just cussed the paint. I will retry it with the new brush now and see if my results are better.

I must be one a the few that does not have any major trouble with the Aztek, Ive been using them for quite a few years now and do not have the problems every body else has.

Only once did I have a spitting problem and that was due to the nozzle not being fitted correctly,my fault. Since the introduction of the Acrylic nozzles I have not had to replace a nozzle due to clogging when using acrylic paint, I put this down to developing cleaning techniques suitable for this style of airbrush for both the use of enamels or acrylic paints. I rarely have to pull a nozzle apart or replace it.

I will admit that at the start it did take time for me to adjust to this style of airbrush succesfully and had to replace nozzles. I guess persistance does pay off in the end.

Wayne

I have no trouble with my Aztek either. Perhaps it is because as a younger draftsman, I used technical pens on a drafting board and the Aztek is similar to those. We, as cadets were trained how to take care of our technical pens.

A lot of my cleaning routine of my airbrush comes from that training.

cheers

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by armydogdoc I have been using an Aztec for a couple of years now. As long as I am painting enamels it works just fine for me. I recently bought a Badger Anthem airbrush and have been using that now. Maybe its just the learning curve with the new airbrush, but at this point in the game I am missing my trusty old Aztec. I agree with above posts regarding the Aztecs inability to paint acrylics. I guess I just learned something, I always just cussed the paint. I will retry it with the new brush now and see if my results are better.

What's it doing for ya? I settled in to my 155 finally and maybe I've been through what you are getting... I came from Aztek as well, but for me I loved this brush the minute I depressed the trigger... There were a few things I had to relearn though... (ok more than a few)

I got a 175 straight from the Aztek and it did ok for me, but the 155 beat it hands down. I have learned since then though, when spraying overall coverage with Vallejo Acrylics, the 175 is the brush for that... for some reason the 155 doesn't seem to get much of a width to it's pattern with vallejo paint.

Mike,

Thanks for the site. I would tend to agree that his animal paintings are absolutely great. But in my mind, the difference isn't in the medium but in how the artist sees his subject. My brother-in-law likes to dabble in his spare time making charcoal drawings. His animal and automotive drawings are great but for some reason his drawings of humans look, well, stilted. It's just him and he excepts that and still enjoys his hobby.

As far as the arguments about how good the Aztec is or isn't, I can't help but occasionally get the feeling that somebody has purchased one and didn't get a prize winning finish first thing out of the box or figured out that it was going to take extra work and practice to make it work for them and didn't like it at all. I sometimes wonder what someone's paint jobs would look like if they took the time and energy to master the Aztec to where they are getting consistantly good finishes and then up graded to a better airbrush. In most cases, we'll never know