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toxic/non-toxic acrylics?

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  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
toxic/non-toxic acrylics?
Posted by zokissima on Thursday, January 13, 2005 6:19 AM
I was wondering about this.
Up to this point, I've mostly used Tamiya acrylics, with MM Acryl here and there, depending on colour needs. I've heard that some acrylics are toxic. Would that apply to the Tamiya paints? I know the MM Acryl isn't.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: The flat lands of the Southeast
Posted by styrene on Thursday, January 13, 2005 11:23 AM
Toxicity is relative; in other words, it's all about the dose and the associated effects the dose has on the body. Some materials take less volume than other materials to achieve similiar bodily responses. Hence, they are more toxic. Straight lacquers and enamels are more toxic than acrylics because of the organic solvents that are used as the vehicles for the pigment. However, many of the new acrylics are using various alcohols, including glycols, and glycol ethers (also organic solvents) that can have just as severe effect on the body under similar concentrations as lacquers and enamels---GENERALLY SPEAKING. I haven't seen ingredients lists on all the new acrylics, so I can't say specifically which ones are worse or better than others from a potential health hazard standpoint, but what is important to remember is just because the bottle says "acrylic" on it, doesn't mean that precautions shouldn't be taken when using the material to prevent inhalation and/or skin contact.
Does this make any sense to anybody at all? Sometimes I write faster than I think....

Gip Winecoff

1882: "God is dead"--F. Nietzsche

1900: "Nietzsche is dead"--God

  • Member since
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  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:35 PM
Gip,

While we are on this subject of toxicity, what does it mean when the paint "conforms to ASTM D4236 non-toxic?"
My bottles of ImagineAir paint have that printed on the front of each bottle.

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Southern California, USA
Posted by ABARNE on Thursday, January 13, 2005 2:04 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV

Gip,

While we are on this subject of toxicity, what does it mean when the paint "conforms to ASTM D4236 non-toxic?"
Mike


From poking about ASTM's site, it looks as though the answer to that question will cost you $33.00 US to get the full testing details and criteria. Presumably, in this day and age of product liabilty lawsuits, something labeled non-toxic must be pretty darned safe.

Andy

http://www.astm.org/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/DATABASE.CART/REDLINE_PAGES/D4236.htm?L+mystore+tsdw8157
  • Member since
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  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Thursday, January 13, 2005 3:48 PM
Well Andy, hopefully Gip won't charge us that much for his information. Wink [;)]

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: The flat lands of the Southeast
Posted by styrene on Thursday, January 13, 2005 8:26 PM
OK, here's what I could find (so far) in answer to the ASTM question:

Most art supplies are labeled with the voluntary hazard rating, (Conforms to ASTM D-4236), which requires a warning on art materials that pose a chronic hazard. Conforming to this standard means that the product has been tested and that the labeling will say whether or not the product contains toxic substances. If the labeling says "rated non-toxic" or lacks any warnings, it is suitable for use by children. If the labeling contains the words "warning" or "caution", it is not suitable. When a company hasn't opted to use the rating system, it's safest to consider the material toxic, or contact the company for more information.


And also this:


Under the U. S. Labeling of Hazardous Art Materials Act (LHAMA), all art materials sold in the U. S. must be evaluated by a qualified toxicologist and labeled, if necessary, for chronic toxicity according to the chronic hazard labeling standard, ASTM D 4236. LHAMA, which went into effect November 18, 1990, amends the Federal Hazardous Substances Act (FHSA) to require art and craft materials manufacturers to evaluate their products for their ability to cause chronic illness (such as cancer) and to place labels on those products that provide health and cautionary information and safe use instructions. FHSA already required manufacturers to evaluate and label for acute toxicity.

Hope this helps a little.
Gip

P.S. That'll be $75, please!
GW





1882: "God is dead"--F. Nietzsche

1900: "Nietzsche is dead"--God

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Thursday, January 13, 2005 9:13 PM
the check's in the mail... Wink [;)]

way I look at it, if it is something I wouldn't feel safe drinking or eating I will take some precautions...

40 yrs ago Asbestos was not a concern... now?
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Las Vegas
Posted by dood_dood on Thursday, January 13, 2005 9:38 PM
Good info, styrene. Thanks.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 13, 2005 9:53 PM
Gip is the man on chemicals, and most generous with the info when he isn't mixing up batches of lysergic acid diethylamide in the bathtub.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Where the coyote howl, NH
Posted by djrost_2000 on Thursday, January 13, 2005 10:48 PM
Thanks again Gip. I'm so used to using enamels I may just stick with themApprove [^]

Dave
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Thursday, January 13, 2005 11:23 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Hatewall

Gip is the man on chemicals, and most generous with the info when he isn't mixing up batches of lysergic acid diethylamide in the bathtub.


You obviously know nothing about Gip. Tongue [:P]

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted by zokissima on Friday, January 14, 2005 6:47 AM
Thanks for the info guys. It does clear up a few issues, as every time I deal with toxic/non-toxic issue, it just seems to get more convoluted..
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Friday, January 14, 2005 7:16 AM
The way I look at it is like this, if it is not air going into your lungs then wear a respirator as anything else is potentially harmful.

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted by zokissima on Friday, January 14, 2005 7:24 AM
Good point. At this point, I AB in my basement. I wear a normal painter's face mask, and a wide open window creates plenty of circulation, so I think it should not be a problem.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Where the coyote howl, NH
Posted by djrost_2000 on Friday, January 14, 2005 10:51 AM
Zokissima, you really should use a respirator when airbrushing. I believe the kind you should get is a two phase respirator. (Can someone verify this?) With it you should not be able to smell the fumes of airbrushing.

Dave

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: The flat lands of the Southeast
Posted by styrene on Friday, January 14, 2005 11:36 AM
I would assume the painter's face mask Zoran mentions, and the two phase respirator Dave mentions to be the same thing, just different terminology, if by two phase (or stage) you mean the first phase is particulate removal, and the second stage is vapor removal--which is the way painters' respirators [are supposed to] work.

Gip

1882: "God is dead"--F. Nietzsche

1900: "Nietzsche is dead"--God

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Friday, January 14, 2005 2:54 PM
I would agree with what Tom said earlier, if you can't eat or drink it take some precautions
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