Using flat black as a primer

I use the good ol' Dupli-Color Sandable Automotive Primers -- either flat White or Flat Black, depending -- right out of the can. They are thin, fill scratches without obscuring detail, sand well, and stick great. And it also works as a pre-shade.

QUOTE: Originally posted by djrost_2000 I think some guys use a gloss black undercoat when they are doing a metallic finish on the model. -Dave

Alcad II calls for a gloss black or flat black primer. If you have SnJ powder, you can spray gloss enamel black and just as it touch dry, rub the SnJ powder in and you will get a lovely polished metal finish.

I use a flat black primer when I build armour once and a while.

cheers

Mike

Saltydog,

Just wanted to let you know that I tried your laquer thinner, mineral spirit and Penetrol mix to thin MM enamel paint and I really liked the way my flat black sprayed I am going to try it with other colors to see if it works just as well.
The Penetrol was a little on the expensive side but using it only a few drops at a time, it will last a long, long time. Was wondering if you experimented just using the Penetrol as a thinner?

Thanks much,

Chuck B.

I think some guys use a gloss black undercoat when they are doing a metallic finish on the model.

-Dave

LOL, actually Josh, i use half mineral spirits, half lacquer thinner, and a drop of a product called Penetrol. Penetrol can be aquired at the local hardware store, it is a paint conditioner for oil based paints. you can leave it out though, but i can tell a small difference when its added. i got frustrated with straight mineral spirits as a thinner because the pigment wouldn't stay suspended very long in it, cause different viscosities of paint to come through the airbrush the longer the paint sessions lasted. lacquer thinner, to me, was waaaay to "hot" to thin with but i love the way it "cut" the pigment. so, i just decided to mix them together and give it a shot, with the penetrol to calm the lacquer thinner down a hair, along with the "oily" charactoristics of the mineral spirits, and it seemed to work pretty good for general spray, and detail work. nothing like tryin' it out for yourself, you may or may not like it. later.

Chris, I really like the idea with mixing the laquer thinner and the mineral spirits. Do you eyeball it as you go or do you premix a jar of it to keep ready. I think I might give this one a shot.. I usually use LT to thin with, but have some of the same concerns with the fast drying time you talked about above. Your idea might be the answer to my problems.

thats correct Chuck, lighter fluid will thin enamels, but not acrylics. i've never personally tried lighter fluid as a thinner, but i've heard it works great. you might want to try on a scrap model before applying it to your prize winner. good luck. later.

Saltydog,

Lighter fluid as a thinner sounds interesting. I'm always looking for a new technique. Do you use it with enamel's or acrylics? I have been using it with oils for my washes so I would tend to think it would thin enamels, correct?

Chuck

sounds great Chuck!! i have the HP-C and the HP-CS, and i love both. i'll admit though, my HP-CS is the workhorse of the 2.

i also heard that lighter fluid makes a great thinner. later.

Salty dog and company,

Thanks for the tips. Salty, a while ago I read one of your posts about the HP-C and the bigger needle. At that time, I bought the C and was reluctant to use it because of some negative comments posted that it wasn't suitable for the paints modelers use. I then bought the HP-CS and more recently a Peak C-5. Anyway, I took your advice and bought the larger needle for the C. I recently started using it with the bigger needle and it has turned into my favorite. It really atomizes the paint and sprays great.

I am now in the process of re doing my jeep. I re did the black and painted the OD over that. I was really thrilled with the shading you can do and the finished product. I bought the jeep at Hobby Lobby at their recent 1/2 off sale. It was only $8.50 and I thought I would just build it and try some different shading and weathering techniques. You were right about the added depth it can give to a color. I guess spraying the entire model with flat flat black is just like preshading on a large scale and the effect is pretty cool.

BTW I recently disovered that lighter fluid on a q-tip will strip enamel and acrylic paint. It is great for those little mistakes

Thanks,

Chuck B

Chuck, i read the articles on the tamiya website about shooting a model with flat black as a base coat. i tried it on a practice model once and it turned out pretty cool. just personal preference though. it adds a certain unique "dimension" to the weathering steps that is worth the effort IMO, though i prefer post shading and washes better. but go for it and try it out, you may like it.

as far as the suede finish, there are 3 things that could cause this, and you have already touched on 2. the viscosity of your paint, your psi in relation to the viscosity of the paint, and the distance from the kit in relations to the above 2. the HP-C is a great airbrush but the .3mm needle/nozzle combo will be a little finicky with model paints. to offset this, you will have to thin your paint more than usual, start out with a 50/50 ratio at about 12-15 psi, and you should be 2-4 inches from the subject. if you still get the orange peel, then thin your paint even further until you get a silky smooth finish at the said distance from the subject. one other thing that might cause this is your thinner. if you are thinning with lacquer thinner, which is really too "hot", or evaporates at a much faster pace than say mineral spirits, your paint will almost dry before it makes it to the subject. so, i would recomend using mineral spirits instead of lacquer thinner. i like how lacquer thinner cuts enamel paint, so i usually use a 50/50 mixture of lacquer thinner and mineral spirits and the oilyness of the mineral spirits seems to knock off the evaporation charactoristics of straight lacquer thinner to a manageable degree. good luck. later.

A primer actually is formulated differently that just paint, as it 'grabs' the plastic better than paint. This allows better cohension of the paint top coat. Like woodbeck3 says, black undercoat is more for shadowing techniques. As for the 'suede' feel, sounds like the paint is drying before it hits the plastic. Thining should help, bringing the brush closer may also help.

Applying flat black first isnt really priming, its used more as an undercoat for lighter shades above it to give shadow or shading to that particular area. If you wanna prime a dark gray is better imo because it catches the light better when you are looking for things to fix.