Iwata airbrush or Badger? Which is better?

So many things that are written actually boil down to opinion and experience rather than objective fact. Since my personal experience along these lines is with my crowned 200, thus lacking any comparitive experience, I actually don't have a significant opinion one way or the other.

At any rate, I did dig through my FSM archives and found the information to which I was referring in a sidebar "Anatomy of an airbrush" from the article "Airbrush aerodynamics" By Robert Oehler, March 2001. Re-reading the sidebar, I think my summary of his discussion point on crowns vs. caps was reasonably accurate, albeit a bit superficial. He did talk about paint build-up, but he indicated that disrupted airflow would cause paint to build up no the needle.

Fact or opinion? Who knows, and without a wind tunnel (it would be hard to accurately model that situation in a wind tunnel) probably any statement about it falls into some form of opinion.

Andy

Ok Guys the decision has been made. I just picked up a Iwata HP-C! -with a crown cap. I am going to give it a try on a couple of old kits and see how it handles compared to my old Badger. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and observations.I will hopefully post my conclusion in a week or two on Iwata vs Badger

According to an artist friend of mine the crown cap is best used when using a diaphragm compressor as the crown tends to act as a air diffuser( apparently to decrease the pulsation effect of some compressors) at the tip making a smoother and more consistant pass, and reduce paint build-up as Mike V stated. Beats me.

All I know now is that I probably should start looking for a new piston type compressor if I truly want to be an ARTIST! But I think I will worry about my airbrush technique First!

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Scott

QUOTE: Originally posted by ABARNE I vaguely remember reading something in FSM that indicated if you get a full cap too close to the surface, there is not enough area for the air to cleanly escape, creating backdrafts and messing up the paint stream. With the crown, there are always slots through which the air can exit.

I don't see where that would be true.
As I said already I can literally touch the surface and still get a fine line.
I think that FSM reference was probably just the writters opinion and not necessarily fact.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV I don't see how it allows closer airbrushing anymore than a standard airbrush.

I vaguely remember reading something in FSM that indicated if you get a full cap too close to the surface, there is not enough area for the air to cleanly escape, creating backdrafts and messing up the paint stream. With the crown, there are always slots through which the air can exit.

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV There are really no disadvantages to a crown cap as far as I know.

This would rank as being is pretty minor disadvantage, but when I have tried to do the blow-back thing while cleaning my Badger 200 NH, which has a very deep crown, I cannot get my fingers to form an adequate seal to force the air back into the color cup or bottle. Since my normal cleaning seems to the job, I'm not losing any sleep over the crown vs. cap.

Andy

QUOTE: Originally posted by osher According to The Airbrush Company, who supply Iwata in the UK, the crown is to allow closer brushing. Maybe ability to spray longer is a side effect?

According to Ken Schlotfeldt, owner of Badger Airbrush Co, it is for the reasons I mentioned. I don't see how it allows closer airbrushing anymore than a standard airbrush. I can literally touch the needle tip to the surface with most airbrushes and still paint with them. The crown was designed the way it is so that there is much less surface area of the cap to have paint build up on which affects spray patterns.
There are really no disadvantages to a crown cap as far as I know.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV QUOTE: Originally posted by tho9900 ahhh see I dont have an Iwata yet... I see now and know what you are talking about.. the crown is supposed to allow you in closer to the subject I believe... (correct me if I am wrong) You are wrong. The crown allows the airbrush to spray longer without paint building up on the aircap as much. Mike

According to The Airbrush Company, who supply Iwata in the UK, the crown is to allow closer brushing. Maybe ability to spray longer is a side effect?

What's the disadvantage of the crown though?

QUOTE: Originally posted by tho9900 ahhh see I dont have an Iwata yet... I see now and know what you are talking about.. the crown is supposed to allow you in closer to the subject I believe... (correct me if I am wrong)

You are wrong.
The crown allows the airbrush to spray longer without paint building up on the aircap as much.

Mike

iwata is the best!! mainly speaking of the eclipse hp-cs!! later.

QUOTE: ahhh see I dont have an Iwata yet... I see now and know what you are talking about.. the crown is supposed to allow you in closer to the subject I believe... (correct me if I am wrong)

Nope you're right. It doesn't have to be an Iwata though. My Badger 100 came with one and somewhere along the line I wound up with one on my old Badger 200.

You can sort of see it in this picture of the front end of my 100lg:

ahhh see I dont have an Iwata yet... I see now and know what you are talking about.. the crown is supposed to allow you in closer to the subject I believe... (correct me if I am wrong)

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV No habla espanol. Mike

No habla means " he does not speak " ; you must say " no hablo "

As for crown caps, they are options on HiLine (HP CH and friends ) and standard on Custom Micron ( CM C Plus, ...) maybe I am goof, but I can't see a colossal difference in the behaviour of Iwata airbrushes, with or without it, though I can appreciate the MAC air valve which is no gadget in my humble opinion; by the way, Sotar has also a choice of caps; I can't speak for other Badgers.

My Iwata refers to the covering of the nozzle as a 'crown', when it's cut back, crown like. In normal mode it's a 'cap'. All these terms for the same thing!

He said the Badger 100LG is a good brush for all types of modeling, with kits available including the air hose and needles and nozzles of different sizes. While the Iwata is a good brush, you have to buy all these things separately.

(I believe this is what he meant in the second paragraph) The badger comes with a standard head ("crown" was the exact translation...am assuming he meant head), but with the Iwata you also have to buy as a separate piece.

No habla espanol.

Mike

El badger 100 Lg es muy bueno para modelismo, algunos kits de este aerografo inluyenen manguera y posiblidad de diferentes anchos de aguja, el Iwata es bueno pero todo hay que comprarlo por separado.
El badger 100 viene con boquilla en forma de corona standar, en el Iwata hay que comprar aparte este accesorio.

Saludos

Iván

En resultados los dos son practicamente iguales, todo depende de quien maneje el aerografo.

I switched from Badger and Paasche to Iwata about 5 years ago and I've never gone back. I first got their HP-BCS, which is about the same as the Badger 150, but I noticed immediately that the control was better, there were no splatters or spiders, and the flow seemed better.

I liked it so much that I when I had an opportunity to pick up an HP- BH, which has a smaller nozzle. This brush has the built in paint cup and is gravity fed, unlike the BCS which is bottom feed with a cup (like the Badger). I finally decided to take the leap and went out and bought a Micron CM-B, which is at the high end of their line.

Some might say I'm crazy, but my models have gotten considerably better since I switched. Since I'm stubborn and set in my ways, I haven't done anything revolutionary in my building techniques in the last few years, aside from using Future as my clearcoat.

That's my two pence.

Jeff

I don't think you'd go far wrong with any of the following:

Iwata
Badger
Thayer & Chandler(Made by Badger)

I've only had experience of Badger and Thayer & Chandler, with a 200, a 100 and an Omni4000 respectively.

It really is a question of personal preference.

Karl

yeah there seems to be too many options, but all of those different gravity airbrushes are all quite similar. I used an Iwata Eclipse for a little while. Now I've got an Omni 5000, and I don't miss the Iwata at all.

Thanks everyone for the input. Pros and cons for both. So many options.

I'll stick with my Badgers. I started out with one and never looked back.

QUOTE: The key things, as I've learnt (see the thread 'Iwata Gremlins') is to maintain and clean your airbrush.

Absolutely no argument from me in that respect. That is the key to keeping one working right.

QUOTE: However, I went for an Iwata because I've heard that they were the best, and for the little extra, I like the reassurance of having the best product (apparently).

The "Best" airbrush is whatever one a person happens to prefer. I prefer Badger, others prefer Iwata. The bulk of an airbrush's abilities come from the hand holding it.

QUOTE: Originally posted by osher The key things,...is to maintain and clean your airbrush.

AMEN!

This can't be stressed enough. It's better to clean often than to have a clog in the middle of your spraying. It's only happened to me once with my Iwata, but that was the first and last time. I've been diligent to it clean since and it's been problem free.

I love my Iwata HP-C, which was a replacement for an Aztec. I've had a few issues with it, but that's due to me, not the airbrush. However, the Iwata helpline is really really good, helpful and free (I should really write to them, and thank them). All I'd say is, from what I've read and heard, most airbrushes are pretty good, so it boils down to taste and budget. The key things, as I've learnt (see the thread 'Iwata Gremlins') is to maintain and clean your airbrush. However, I went for an Iwata because I've heard that they were the best, and for the little extra, I like the reassurance of having the best product (apparently).

QUOTE: Originally posted by radonc ...am thinking about spending the bucks for a Iwata. First, is it worth it and if so what model would be better? I am leaning towards a gravity fed brush...

Rad

I recently purchased an Iwata Revolution. It was recomended to me by a friend that also happens to be a world-class fish taxidermist. Though I have no experience with another airbrush, I can't imagine that any other could be any better. The Revolution feels very comfortable and well balanced in my hand and it's smooth double action gives me excellent control over the size and consistency of my spray. The gravity feed makes for little to no wasted paint and a very responsive airbrush. IMO, the Iwata is well worth the $$$.

One suggestion is to not worry about broad coverage. If your Badger 200 still is working well, you can use it for overall coats. Even if it is not providing as fine of detail as you desire, it will lay down nice, smooth coat of paint. If you open the needle on it it will put out as much paint as you like. Since I doubt you would ever need to go from wide coverage to pencil lines with the same paint and the same session, using two different AB's fro broad and fine detail really wouldn't double your cleaning.

To make cleanup easier, you might cosider getting a color cup for your 200. The Badger siphon feed color cup is a fits somewhat awkwardly (one of my periodic rants) because of its straight pickup tube. If you're semi-handy with a torch and solder you can put a bend in the pipe so that the cup sits level with respect to the airbrush body. Anyway, the advantage of using a color cup compared to the siphon bottle is that you can mix up less paint and there is a lot less cleaning and wasted paint.

Andy