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Airbrush Flow Volume

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  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: USA
Airbrush Flow Volume
Posted by MusicCity on Friday, June 24, 2005 7:31 AM
I was talking to one of the engineers in my office about the relationship between pressure and volume of a gas. I also think that Styrene posted information similar to this last year.

I wanted to calculate the actual flow of air through one of my airbrushes. This can be done using the pressure gauge on my compressor. The expanded volume of a gas is related to the mass and density of the gas, the volume, pressure, and temperature. In this case the temperature stayed constant so I negated that. Also, since both calculations are based on air I negated the gas density and mass. What it boils down to is that the expanded volume is simply the pressure times the compressed volume of the gas. Read the pressure gauge, spray for a measured number of minutes, read the pressure gauge again, and you can calculate the flow through the airbrush. (actually the pressure needs to be corrected for atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi standard) but since both calculations are done using the same gauge this can also be negated as well).

The formula I used is simply Pg x V1 = V2 where Pg = PSI Gauge, V1 = the volume of the compressor tank (in cubic feet) and V2 = the expanded volume of the air in cubic feet. Some of you other engineers and designers correct me if I’m wrong.

So ……

My 15 gallon compressor contains 2.01 cubic feet of volume (7.4805 gallons per cubic foot). Last night I started at 121 psi, used a rubber band to hold the trigger on my Omni 4000 down for exactly 30 minutes with the regulator set at 12 psi, then read the pressure gauge again. In 30 minutes the pressure had dropped from 121 psig to 71 psig. At 121 psig the initial volume was 272.10 standard cubic feet and at 71 psig the volume was 171.84 standard cubic feet, so in 30 minutes I used 100.26 standard cubic feet of air volume. This equates to a flow of 3.34 cfm (cubic feet per minute) at 12 psi (higher pressure at the airbrush would cause a higher flow rate, lower pressure would cause a lower flow rate). 3.34 cfm is MUCH higher than I expected to see, my initial guess was around 0.5 cfm. The Omni has a big nozzle so I may try it again on my Badger 100 over the weekend.

So …. What’s the point?

I see questions posted here from time to time where someone is asking how long they will be able to spray from a 5-gallon air tank that they pressurize at the local gas station. Assuming that:

1) The gas station’s air system runs at 90 psig (which is the maximum rated value of some air chucks)

2) The person then runs the tank down to 20 psi before he refills it (20 psi is very low!)

3) The person sprays at the same volume as I did (which in turn is affected by the particular airbrush and the pressure that is used for spraying)

The answer is: About 14 minutes of actual spraying time before they head for the gas station again.

This would be an interesting experiment to do using different airbrushes. I’d be interested to know how mine compare to some of the Azteks and other brands around. I really think that 3.34 cfm is on the high side.
Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Southern California, USA
Posted by ABARNE on Friday, June 24, 2005 3:36 PM
The result seems high.

According to Badger's published spec on their Cyclone I Model 180-1 compressor which is the one I own, it's flow rate is 22.5L/min @ 1.38 bar (20 PSI).

There are 28.316 liters per cubic foot, so convert L/min to CFM...
22.5 / 28.316 = 0.795 CFM

Since this number is at 20 PSI rather than the 12 you did your experiment with, the actual disparity of numbers would be even greater, leading me to think that there is something invalid in the experiment.

Andy
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 24, 2005 5:44 PM
Good information MusicCity. Are you trying to measure the cfm's of your airbrush or your compressor? The result seems high to me too. That doesn't mean anything though. All I know is big auto sprayguns need big cfm's and little airbrushes don't. I also know that cfm is directly proportional to pressure and size of opening.

The pressure dropping during the experiment bugs me but I know that's the only way you could do it.

You should do the experiment with no airbrush as a baseline.
I wonder what the result would be with something like an iwata hp-c or smaller
When dealing with such small openings on airbrushes (.5 - .3 and smaller) I think a more fine method of measurement may be necessary.
  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: USA
Posted by MusicCity on Friday, June 24, 2005 6:40 PM
Yeah, I agree that it seems high. I was expecting a lot less than that but I'm not sure where the problem is. Could be that my pressure gauge doesn't read linear (no real surprise there) and it didn't really fall as much as it indicates.

Andy, do you actually GET 20 psi from your compressor? That rating means that at a particular flow volume it will have the pressure specified. At a lower flow it will have a higher pressure and at a higher flow it will have less pressure. Less than 1 cfm was what I was expecting.

I-Beam, it was just sort of an experiment for the interest value. I just started wondering what kind of flow an airbrush actually uses so I measured it for the heck of it. I'm sure that it's not the same for all airbrushes, and I may try it on my Badger 100 over the weekend just to see.
Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Southern California, USA
Posted by ABARNE on Saturday, June 25, 2005 7:57 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by MusicCity
Andy, do you actually GET 20 psi from your compressor?


Certainly if I want. Although I typically paint in the 15 PSI range, the thing seems to max out at 27-28PSI.

On first blush your experiment seemed valid enough, but what about temperature? If your tank cooled while your were emptying it during the 30 minutes, the cooling could have dropped its pressure further than air volume considerations alone would have done. I was thinking back from my pre-compressor Propel days. Aftr a fairly short while, the can of Propel would become really cold and the pressure coming out of it would go way down. fter warming back up to room tempertaure, the pressure would be restored as well.

Andy

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: USA
Posted by MusicCity on Saturday, June 25, 2005 9:54 PM
QUOTE: Certainly if I want. Although I typically paint in the 15 PSI range, the thing seems to max out at 27-28PSI.

That tends to indicate to me that the flow volume I calculated is wrong. If an airbrush was using that much volume your compressor, which is rated at 0.8cfm at 20 psi would be pulled way down below 20 psi.

QUOTE: On first blush your experiment seemed valid enough, but what about temperature?

That's a valid concern and temperature is one of the factors in the actual calculation. I negated temperature because I don't "Think" the tank temp changed much, but it could have. I've used Propel to, and have literally seen ice forming on the can, but just judging by feel my compressor tank doesn't cool down noticeably. The air is originally pretty warm when it gets pumped into the tank, but I gave it plenty of time (a couple of hours) to stabilize before I ran my experiment.
Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 27, 2005 1:31 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by MusicCity
The air is originally pretty warm when it gets pumped into the tank, but I gave it plenty of time (a couple of hours) to stabilize before I ran my experiment.

If my understanding of physics is correct (and it might well not be - 16 or more years since studying it) leaving the air to stabilize in the tank is important but if I interpret your reasoning correctly maybe not for the reason you are suggesting. If anything the action of compressing gas leads to a temperature increase (feel a bicycle pump in use). The temperature fall occurs as a direct result of the expansion of the gas and the energy required to bring about that expansion. It is this fact that causes problems with condensation in the air line and why we all use and recommend water traps (the act of compressing/decompressing air does not generate water that wasn't in the air to begin with; rather the quantity of water that can be held as a vapour rather than droplets is temperature and pressure sensitive). Pressure has a direct relationship to temperature (pressure in this instance really just describes the energy level of gas molecules and the force they exert when colliding with a surface) and cooling of the gas remaining in the tank by spraying will cause a corresponding fall in measured pressure but without having to go through your brush and without contributing to the flow in your calculation. Now if you hadn't allowed the gas to return to room temperature before running your experiment you would in effect be overestimating the starting pressure in much the same way as you could be underestimating the tank pressure at the end of the experiment because the remaining gas is cooler and therefore exerts less pressure. Taken together these may well contribute to your higher than expected values. If you do this again then you should allow the gas temperature to stabilise at the end as well as the beginning of the experiment and this assumes that room temperature is a constant! You have if nothing else discovered one of the great difficulties of scientific investigation - the difficulty of designing a valid experiment!
  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: USA
Posted by MusicCity on Monday, June 27, 2005 5:42 AM
Simon, you could be correct. I did not let the tank stabilize after spraying, and it could have been cooler than I expected.

Where's Styrene when we need him? May have to shoot him an email and get his opinion.
Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page
  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: USA
Posted by MusicCity on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 2:12 PM
I sent an email to Styrene and asked him about this question. Included below is his response:

I looked at your numbers and I'm not sure how you arrived at your standard cubic feet number. If you multiply your tank volume (2.01cu. ft.) times your regulator pressure (121 psi) and divide by 14.7 psi to adjust for standard pressure, you get 16.54 standard cubic feet (scf). Using the same calculation 30 minutes later (2.01cu.ft. X 71 psi)/14.7 psi = 9.71 scf. Subtracting 16.54 scf - 9.71 scf = 6.84 scf that you used in 30 minutes. Divide 6.84 by 30 and you get about 0.23 cfm--not too far away from the 0.5 cfm that you had originally predicted!

Another way of looking at it is that if you were actually spraying at better than 3 cfm, you would have depleted 16.54 cubic feet of air in about 5 minutes--a LONG cry from the 30 minutes you cite (assuming, of course that your compressor didn't automatically start up at whatever trigger point it's set at).

I immediately saw what the problem in my formula was. I was adding 14.7 psi to the tank pressure to convert to standard cfm where I should have been dividing the product of the tank volume and pressure by 14.7 to convert to standard cfm. It makes a HUGE difference! Once again Gip comes to my rescue!

Sorry for misleading you guys.
Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 9:16 PM
No apology necessary - anything that gets us thinking is more than welcome in my book.
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