Need Help narrowing down Airbrush for a newb

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Need Help narrowing down Airbrush for a newb

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, July 3, 2005 8:16 PM

Hi all....

After searching and reading the MANY posts about different airbrushes in this forum, as well as doing a lot of reading on the web, I think I have my selection of which airbrush to buy (my first one!).

I would like to get the opinions of some of you AB vets out there first.....

I mainly will be making aircraft. But I would also probably venture into all areas of WWII modeling (even dioramas) including Naval, armor, and figures.

My first project (after I do several practice projects to get techinques down) will be a 1/72 scale German U-boat (Type VII-B to be exact). It will be about 3-1/2 to 4 ft long.

So what Im looking for is something that I can spray that big of model with, and also do fine detail work on.

Question:

1) Can you do such a large project (like painting flat grey on the WHOLE U boat) AND also do detail work with the same AB?? Or do you generally have one AB for General large work and one for fine detail? Or is that taken care of by the different Nozzle sizes and needle settings? (Ok so thats 3 questions)

2) The brushes that I seem to gravitating to are the Badger 155, Badger 100LG, Paasche H, and the Passche VLSTPRO. Which of these (or any others) would you all reccomend? I lean towards the Badgers as they seem to be the easiest to clean and get parts for.

I will be getting a compressor to run the AB off of. Im not afraid to learn the double action brushes as it seems that once you master the double action, they seem to be the most verstile. Am I wrong in my thinkning here?

I just want to get a good quality airbrush that a year from now after my skills improve, I wont be wanting to run out and buy a better AB. I would rather invest the money now than waste it later Big Smile [:D]

Thanks for any and all suggestions! I look forward to sharing/learning from all of you in the future!

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Sunday, July 3, 2005 9:14 PM

QUOTE:
1) Can you do such a large project (like painting flat grey on the WHOLE U boat) AND also do detail work with the same AB?? Or do you generally have one AB for General large work and one for fine detail? Or is that taken care of by the different Nozzle sizes and needle settings? (Ok so thats 3 questions)

Sure you can do it with just one brush. The spray comes out in the shape of a cone. The closer you get the finer the line, the farther away the wider the pattern. Many airbrushes can spray a pattern from about 1/16" or less to about an inch in width. The pattern width is also controlled by the head assembly. In general a finer nozzle gives a finer line (although the pigment size of the paint may be too large for some finer nozzles).

QUOTE:
2) The brushes that I seem to gravitating to are the Badger 155, Badger 100LG, Paasche H, and the Passche VLSTPRO. Which of these (or any others) would you all reccomend? I lean towards the Badgers as they seem to be the easiest to clean and get parts for.

Don't discount the Thayer and Chandler Omni series. They are excellent all-around airbrushes and are made by Badger.

My personal choice would be either the Badger 100 or T&C Omni 4000, but read this page: www.craigcentral.com/models/ab.asp. Both are gravity feed, double action brushes and both are excellent brushes. I use my Omni more than my 100 simply because it's a bit easier to clean. The 100 does have three different heads while the Omni has a single needle/nozzle.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, July 3, 2005 9:54 PM

Thanks for the input Scott... seems like there are a lot of good quality, inexpensive (when compared to IWATA) AB out there.

I'll take a look at the two you mentioned. Are both the Omni and the 100 dual action? And should a newb be even looking at dual action? Or should I concentrate more on a single action to get my technique (flow control, distance, thinning) down first...then move to a dual action later?

EDIT: Read your link Scott... I must say that is WELL put together and a wealth of info (I already have it bookmarked Cool [8D]

)

I also see you are/were into aquariums.... before I moved to Md 2 yrs ago I had a 70 gallon fresh water with Live plants and a CO2 injection system. I had to trim my plants weekly or they took over the tank!!... one day I hope to get back into that.

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cbreeze

Member since
December 2003

Posted by cbreeze on Sunday, July 3, 2005 11:04 PM

Up to recently I have been a Iwata fan, that is until I got my Harder & Steenbeck Evolution. It blows the Iwata away and is not that much more money than the HP-C. It is a gravity feed and comes with two color cups, two needles and solvent proof seals. If you want a really good airbrush that will last you a long time, check out Obeeliks web site. I believe they are in Denmark and ship world wide. Fantastic customer service. I live in Illinois and got my airbrush in three days.

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Torio

Member since
December 2002
From: Cornebarrieu (near Blagnac), France

Posted by Torio on Monday, July 4, 2005 5:56 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by cbreeze

Up to recently I have been a Iwata fan, that is until I got my Harder & Steenbeck Evolution. It blows the Iwata away and is not that much more money than the HP-C. It is a gravity feed and comes with two color cups, two needles and solvent proof seals. If you want a really good airbrush that will last you a long time, check out Obeeliks web site. I believe they are in Denmark and ship world wide. Fantastic customer service. I live in Illinois and got my airbrush in three days.

They are in Belgium, chap, and they are very very nice people :
http://www.obeeliks.com

As to blow the Iwata away, let's say that H&S are great airbrushes, like Iwata, Badger, Aerograph. I don't place Paasche on the same level, although I own one and that their support is amazing, but I'm sure a lot of people won't agree ( with the bad appreciation, not with the good one )

Thank you all for coming José

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Monday, July 4, 2005 6:11 AM

QUOTE: I'll take a look at the two you mentioned. Are both the Omni and the 100 dual action? And should a newb be even looking at dual action? Or should I concentrate more on a single action to get my technique (flow control, distance, thinning) down first...then move to a dual action later?

Yes, both the Omni series and the Badger 100 series are double-action. They are also both gravity feed. If you prefer siphon feed the Omni 3000 is the same as the 4000 in siphon feed and the Badger 150 is the same as the 100 in siphon feed.

In my opinion double-action is the way to go. The flexibility of having immediate control over the paint flow is well worth the effort of learning to use one. Learning to use ANY airbrush properly requires a good bit of practice and simply adding the "Pull for Paint" movement is not much to add. People make double movements all the time; driving their cars, move and click their mouse, etc. It's no big deal.

QUOTE: I also see you are/were into aquariums.... before I moved to Md 2 yrs ago I had a 70 gallon fresh water with Live plants and a CO2 injection system. I had to trim my plants weekly or they took over the tank!!... one day I hope to get back into that.

I have that problem with my 58 gallon tank. It's full of Kribensis and they love to hide down in the plants. The plants are so prolific that if I don't keep them trimmed back they grow wild. It makes the Kribs mad though because they then have to find new hiding holes.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Monday, July 4, 2005 7:25 AM

Claude -

Ditto on what Scott said... I'd go double action as well... the two brushes he listed are also very good and used by a large number of people here with fantastic results!

Good luck! We'll be waiting for you to post pics of your first kit done with it! Wink [;)]

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 4, 2005 8:34 AM

Thanks guys.... You bet I will be posting pics as I complete them. Even if it looks like Fido's rear end Black Eye [B)]

I figure it woudl be cool for you guys to see the results of your tutelage as I progress.

Actually I like how Scott has his website laid out with his projects. You show the good and bad results and that can help all of us avoid the same pitfalls.

Im really leaning to the Badger 100 just for the fact that Badger parts are VERY readily available at my local Michaels.

Which Badger 100 should I get (100, 100SG, 100G, 100LG)? And is there anything else I should buy with the brush (other than a airhose)? I assume you mean the 100G with medium tip..... Here are the 100's Im looking at http://www.dixieart.com/Badger100.html

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Monday, July 4, 2005 9:30 AM

QUOTE: Actually I like how Scott has his website laid out with his projects. You show the good and bad results and that can help all of us avoid the same pitfalls.

That's why I did it that way. No point in everyone having the same headaches I did.

QUOTE: Im really leaning to the Badger 100 just for the fact that Badger parts are VERY readily available at my local Michaels.

Having a readily-available source of parts is invaluable when you trash a needle and really, really need one right now! I usually keep extras of the parts I wreck the most (normally nozzles and needles).

QUOTE: Which Badger 100 should I get (100, 100SG, 100G, 100LG)? And is there anything else I should buy with the brush (other than a airhose)? I assume you mean the 100G with medium tip..... Here are the 100's Im looking at http://www.dixieart.com/Badger100.html

Mine is the 100LG and I got it from DixieArt. They are very good to deal with and have excellent prices. The choice, of course, is yours but I prefer the medium tip. I have all three and the medium is better for all-around work in my opinion. I know some people use the fine tip exclusively, but I personally prefer the medium.

I'd strongly recommend a moisture trap. This can be either inline or on the compressor, or both.

You may also need an adapter to fit your compressor depending on which hose you get. The small diameter vinyl hose has small fittings on both ends (I'm not sure what size they are but they are about 1/8" "in diameter and aren't 1/8" NPT fittings). The 50-023 adapter on this page:
http://www.badgerairbrush.com/access2.htm
converts it to 1/4" NPT threads which fits most compressor fittings. The braided hose comes with a 1/4" NPT fitting on one end.

Virtually everyone prefers the braided hose but I prefer the small vinyl hose. I have both but the big one is too cumbersome for me. The little vinyl hose gets in my way a lot less than the big hose.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 4, 2005 2:25 PM

Ok..I think Im finally ready to buy my first AB. Looks like the Badger 100LG (LG because the larger color cup as I plan on doing some larger scale models..again my U-boat 1/72scale is 3 1/2 ft long..so thats going to be a lot of paint. I also plan on doin a lot of Naval ships in the future). Plus the 100LG also looks like it will be good for detail work also. Overall a good GP AB.

What are your thoughts on the water based Acrylics.... I like the idea of being able to clean and thin with water vs. more toxic chemicals. I did read they are harder to work with.

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Monday, July 4, 2005 2:57 PM

QUOTE: What are your thoughts on the water based Acrylics.... I like the idea of being able to clean and thin with water vs. more toxic chemicals. I did read they are harder to work with.

Acrylics are about all I use. They do not adhere nearly as well as enamel or laquer. I normally spray a laquer primer coat, but I use Tamiya Fine Surface Primer in rattle cans and take the parts outside to spray them.

They also dry absurdly fast and that can cause problems. It will build up on the tip of your airbrush, and sometimes can dry in mid-air if you aren't careful. Spraying at low pressure and close to the surface, and adding a couple of drops of acrylic retarder to the paint cup eliminates most of the drying problems.

They take some getting used to but not having laquer thinner or mineral spirit fumes in my basement is a big plus. Keep in mind though that you still should not breathe them. A respirator is still highly recommended.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Monday, July 4, 2005 2:58 PM

Claude - I use mostly acrylics. either MM or Color of Eagles (made by Vallejo in Spain) and the Color of Eagles line is tops in my book (MM are good too, just prefer the other). they (Vallejo) behave a lot like enamels as far as spraying and drying. I always prime my model with either Tamiya or Krylon primer before painting with them to make sure I don't have any paint pulled up in masking.

Clean up consists of a 99 cent bottle of ammonia based window cleaner (think windex) I fill the color cup with it when done painting, use a qtip and get the residual paint off the sides of the cup, spray it out, repeat etc... when done for the day a paper towel with windex in it wipes down my needle and I am done! best part is there are no fumes and cleanup is a snap!

Acrylixs MAY take a little more getting used to, but if you've never sprayed before you won't come in with a bias either way so it should't bother you. The only enamel I have now are things like burnt metal etc.. the ones that don't do well in acrylic. Others love enamels and for their own good reasons, but try each and see which you like. The only thing acrylics have that enamels don't (on the negative side) is tip dry... where paint dries on the tip of the needle disrupting the spray pattern.. a qtip soaked in windex and dabbed over the tip now and then will fix that just fine!!

As far as your first job with an airbrush looking like crap, get you an empty milk jug and try spraying on the curves and flat surfaces and get used to the feel of it before you commit to spraying your kit. I bet your paint on the model will come out looking pretty good, a lot better than you might have suspected. And something I am also a fan of.. PRACTICE!! the airbrush won't do everything you want right out of the box, but with some practice it will do that and more!

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 4, 2005 3:43 PM

Buy the Omni 4000. I have tried them all and I would buy the Omni again.
"Large or small, the Omni does it all."

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 4, 2005 8:37 PM

Tom... I have a bunch of 2 liter soda bottles ready for PRACTICE, and I will be saving milk jugs too now.

Scott... you say you use a surface primer in rattle cans?? I thought the whole purpose of using a AB was that rattle cans tend to be a bit heavy and fill in too much detail on models? Or do you just back WAAY off with the rattle cans and put a "dusting" of primer on your subject?

Thanks again...and sorry I have so many questions. I am an Engineer/mechanic by trade which tends to make me a bit anal :-) Im really anxious to get learning... Milk Jugs and Soda bottles BEWARE!

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 5:34 AM

QUOTE: Scott... you say you use a surface primer in rattle cans?? I thought the whole purpose of using a AB was that rattle cans tend to be a bit heavy and fill in too much detail on models? Or do you just back WAAY off with the rattle cans and put a "dusting" of primer on your subject?

I use that particular paint and a couple of very light coats. It goes on a bit heavy but once it dries to the touch and the carrier evaporates it is quite thin. It doesn't noticeably fill in the surface detail and works very well.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

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