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Acrylic Paints......darn new fandangled stuff!

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Acrylic Paints......darn new fandangled stuff!
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 18, 2005 7:50 PM
Hello,

Well, after spending the last 3 years learning (through bitter experience) how to use enamels and resolving to use nothing else, Squadron sent me 3 bottles of Aircraft Colors Acrylic paint (I figured out after I got it they couldn't send enamel paint by email...opps airmail).

I decided to use the paint...just to see what it was like. First step was to thin it down as I did with my enamels using General Purpose (GP) thinners. It looked OK, then I mixed it with my trusty milk shake mixer...and guess what, I got a azure blue milk shake!- just froth (doesn't happen with enamels).

Hmmmm....next step read the instructions.'thin down 10-15% with distilled water' . OK, find wifeys iron and steal the destilled water!

I mixed again and still got milkshake....but what the heck it still sprayed OK (it was a thin base coat so no drama if it went pear shaped). The next batch was mixed without the milk shake maker, and looked like paint after mixing...progress! The second coat went on well, and a pleasing result.

BUT, a few more experiments raised a few more questions - which I hope someone can help me with.

1) The thinned (possibly too thin) acrylic paint goes on milky and I can't seem to get the subtle soft edges that I can with enamels-why?
2) Acylic paint doesn't seem to flow as well as enamel, it doesn't fill panel lines without special attention- what am I doing wrong?
3) What sort of curing time should I allow.
4) What can I add to acyrlic paint to make it 'retard' a bit (I thought about detergent)
5) What goes with want? can I use laquers over the acrylic, can I use enamels over acrylics or acrylics over enamels, how does it go with Future (or Pledge- I'm in Aust.)

Any help would be appreciated!

Cheers

Simon
  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: Nowhere. (Long Island)
Posted by Tankmaster7 on Sunday, September 18, 2005 8:18 PM
Acrylic paint retarder can help retard acrylic paint. (seriously) you can get it at craft stores.

You can use either over the other as long as both are fully dry. Lacquesr over scrylics is a bit risky, but it should still work.

Frankly, I love enamels. I use them whenever I can and only use acrylics when I have to.
-Tanky Welcome to the United States of America, a subsidiary of Exxon Mobil Corporation, in partnership with Halliburton. Security for your constitutional rights provided by Blackwater International.
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, September 18, 2005 8:45 PM
hmmm you sure you didn't get them from greatmodels.com? I didn't know Squadron carried them... these are the ones in the little squeeze bottles right?

If it is and it sounds like it is: (I use those almost exclusively)

your questions:

QUOTE: 1) The thinned (possibly too thin) acrylic paint goes on milky and I can't seem to get the subtle soft edges that I can with enamels-why?


you've already answered the question.. they are overthinned. try using a tad less water. I've actually sprayed them out of bottle with no huge problems... with the water you can get a little lower on pressure to get better detail. ... Just only a drop or two per cup normally does it.

QUOTE: 2) Acrylic paint doesn't seem to flow as well as enamel, it doesn't fill panel lines without special attention- what am I doing wrong?


See question #1, and a retarder can help... also take a cotton bud moistened with an ammonia based window cleaner or such and wipe the tip of your airbrush if it starts acting up and spraying odd patterns.. you'll get used to it...

QUOTE: 3) What sort of curing time should I allow.


about 24 hours or more... allow 10 to 15 minutes between LIGHT coats, the full time before switching colors or masking

QUOTE: 4) What can I add to acyrlic paint to make it 'retard' a bit (I thought about detergent)


Tanky answered that for you... many companies make an acrylic airbrush medium and it can be found in an art store where they sell the artists acrylic paints and such... BUT... if you can get your hands on Vallejo's thinner, the aircraft colors you got are made by them... it has a retarder as well as an adhesion agent. (the adhesion agent I suspect is white glue) But it works wonders... use 1 drop per every 3 drops of paint. (personally I just guess how many drops of paint went in and use acoordingly amounts of the thinner)

QUOTE: 5) What goes with want? can I use laquers over the acrylic, can I use enamels over acrylics or acrylics over enamels, how does it go with Future (or Pledge- I'm in Aust.)


once FULLY cured you can spray anything over them... as Tanky said I wouldn't put down a heavy coat of lacquer on them but instead would probably put the pledge as a barrier between the paint and the lacquer...(and let the pledge cure 24 to 48 hours as well) enamels can be sprayed directly on them as long as the acrylic are given the 24 hour plus cure time...


Things I have learned with using them:

Spray light coats... they go on BEAUTIFULLY when put on like that and tend to spray on better like that... sometimes it might take me 3 or 4 coats to completely cover the fuselage but the end result is worth it... Also priming with a complementary primer helps in coverage too... light colors go great over white primer, darker colors better over grey. I just use the plain old spray can of Krylon primer from the hardware store. Auto stores are good places to get it too.

Clean the tip often (the cotton bud with window cleaner on it).. like ever 5 passes or so... it will save you the hassle of the pattern getting a wierd spray pattern or worse yet, droplets.

If you don't already have it, invest in some needle lube, I know there are sources for it in AU. Badger Regdab and Medea Super Lube are two names it goes by.

If you can take the patience to learn these I think you will be so happy you'll want more of that type of paint. Once you get in the routine it is no hassle whatsoever.

One of the nicest parts for me is clean up between colors is ammonia window cleaner in the cup sprayed through at 40+ PSI... no fussing with smelly thinners!! Also there is almost zero waste of paint since you measure it out with the bottle dropper.

One of the biggest things is that they aren't enamels and some of what you have learned won't apply.. experiment a bit and see what works best for you... but I've given you a few of the basic guidelines...

OH!!!! and on mixing... if these are the type in the squeeze bottles just shake them in the bottle before dispensing... about 20 or 30 seconds.. they mix up nice.. if you are mixing two shades of them mixing them well with a toothpick in the paint container you put them in works best...

Feel free to post any more questions on it!

Good luck!!!

---edit---

massive typos
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 18, 2005 10:11 PM
Thanks for the info.

The paint came from Squadron- great service at a reasonable price and even better when the exchange rate is right!.

I was looking for a primer, I heard cellulose based paint was good as it reacts with the plastic (primer for plastic bumper bars I think).

I will hunt down the retarder and continue the experiments......although I think my first love will always be enamels (I've got a big stock to get through!)

Cheers

Simon

Simon

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Monday, September 19, 2005 7:00 AM
Simon - the cellulose works good, but for acrylics, enamel primers would be fine though. You just don't want to use an acrylic primer as other than providing a color back ground you've accomlished nothing as far as adhesion..

good luck!
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 5:20 AM
Well, Gents I did as suggested and found the retarder- it works a treat! As suggested I sprayed thin coats and am very pleased with the smooth uniform finish.

I also experimented a bit with India Ink and caligraphers ink- I plan to use it for panel lines and shading, I got it down to a fine diffused line with my Badger 150 and am also pleased with the result. Although I think a gravity feed would produce even better results.

Just in case anyone is looking for a brand- the 'Flow Control & Airbrush Medium' is made by Chroma and from the label appears to available in UK and the States. For $12.00 (Aust). I got 150ml- which translates to a lot of 'drops' and great value for money!

Thanks

Simon
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 7:05 AM
Congrats Simon!! I really am happy you found the right combo for spraying the Aircraft Colors... they are being called the "enamel" of acrylic paints because once you get the application of them down, they behave a lot like them... plus there's no odor and very short clean ups as well...

Enjoy!!!
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
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