Gloss vs. flat

Hello Hud!

No you are not lazy.  I've wondered the very same thing myself.  I wish they would make both flat AND gloss versions of the same color.  I mean, they make flat and gloss black, flat and gloss white, yellow, you name it.  Why can't they do the same with olive drab and neutral grey and other such military colors.  Maybe it's a conspiracy in much the same way they make you buy ten hot dogs but only sell the buns in packs of eight.

Actually I'm about 95% sure that there is some company out there which actually DOES make gloss military colors.  Is anyone familiar with this line of paints?  For the life of me, if I could remember the manufacturer I'd: 1) buy a bunch of it myself, and 2) tell you about it so that we no longer have to put 84 layers of various top coats on our models.

Best wishes,

Eric

There are a number of good reasons for flat paints in lieu of gloss:

• Gloss paints take forever to fully cure and during the curing process you really can't handle the model lest you leave a finger print.  So for example, a fighter with a three tone camo/underside scheme can be painted, glossed, and ready for decals within a day using flats, while the same process would take at least three days with gloss paints.
• Not all painted surfaces will have decals applied.  In such cases, you not only have to put up with the drying time but would have to then add an otherwise unneeded flat coat.

The bottom line is that while it would be convenient for the modeller if all colors came in gloss and flat versions, but since they don't, it is probably preferable to have flats rather than glosses.

Thanks for your reply. You've got my curiosity up with a couple of  things you mentioned. I must be missing the boat on drying times. It takes me three days, sometimes longer, to do a three color paint job and a coat of Future for decal apps using acrylic, and then I still hold my breath for good results. If I try to add a second color to the upper surface in less than 12 or so hours after applying the first one I end up with a mess, usually paint peel. I guess living in a humid area ( NC ) may have something to do with it but my past experiences tell me to give each color a good day to cure before adding the next one. Also, I understand that the entire model is not covered with decals but I still give the entire model a coat or more of Future/gloss. Is it common pratice to just gloss the areas where the decals are to be applied and if so wouldn't the builder still have to wait the same amount of time regardless of whether all or part of the model has been decal prepped? Do you use an airbrush? I can see adding color after color if you're brush painting but not , by my method, with an airbrush. FWIW, I still wish they made all paints in both gloss and flat but I'll probably never get that wish :)  Just curious and always looking  for better techniques. Any suggestions? Thanks again.

Hud

Hud - some do gloss only the areas to be decal'd but it tends to leave a different level of flat when you dull coat over it in my experience, I gloss the whole aircraft just to make it look uniform...

And actually this was a good point... I guess there are a lot of people out there NOT connected in a forum like this who don't use future and decal over flat, etc.. (Like I used to do in my past modeling life)  When I got here and read about Future I was in shock haha.... You do WHAT with it?????  was my reaction..  now I can't live without it!

hud wrote:

Thanks for your reply. You've got my curiosity up with a couple of  things you mentioned. I must be missing the boat on drying times. It takes me three days, sometimes longer, to do a three color paint job and a coat of Future for decal apps using acrylic, and then I still hold my breath for good results.

hud wrote:

Also, I understand that the entire model is not covered with decals but I still give the entire model a coat or more of Future/gloss. Is it common pratice to just gloss the areas where the decals are to be applied and if so wouldn't the builder still have to wait the same amount of time regardless of whether all or part of the model has been decal prepped?

I too will gloss the entire model.  I have heard of people doing spot glossing, but my fear has been that you would have an uneven finish and see where the gloss had been.  Obviously by glossing the whole thing, any effects that the gloss has on the finish are uniform.  I also will add a gloss coat over the decals prior to the flat coat, again to try for uniformity

hud wrote:

Do you use an airbrush? I can see adding color after color if you're brush painting but not , by my method, with an airbrush.

Indeed I do, Badger 200NH single action for enamels and a Paasche H single action for acrylics.  Using an airbrush is another reason for the rapid drying times because the coat of paint it lays down is so much thinner than a brush painted coat.  Prior to owning an airbrush, I think I had to usually wait at least overnight for one coat to be cured enough to paint another on top.

hud wrote:

FWIW, I still wish they made all paints in both gloss and flat but I'll probably never get that wish :)  Just curious and always looking  for better techniques. Any suggestions?

I think experimenting with new techniques is one of the things that makes this hobby so darn fascinating.  Here's an off the wall experiment.  Try mixing some flat enamel with clear gloss enamel.  Floquil makes a product called Crystal Cote.  You might have to play with the ratios.  Even then, it might not cover or if it covers, it might not be glossy.  Or who knows, it might work and give you gloss paint.

Andy

Andy,

I decided to take your advice and do a little experimenting. I've been playing mad scientist this morning and I may have come across my answer to glossy military flat paints. I first painted a piece of scrap plastic with plan old flat acrylic knowing what it would look like. I then took the same paint and added Future to it and shot another piece of plastic with it. That one came out too thin, I added too much Future, but it still covered the work and was very glossy, just too thin on color. On the next sample I backed off the Future to about half of what the second one had and presto, I had the original color with proper tint only with high gloss!  It's a guessing game right now but I think it'll work once I get the proper ratios down pat. If it does work then I won't have to go with the Future before applying decals. It's that glossy. I'm going to try and do a full paint job on one of my "not so favorite, partially assembled, junkers" to see how it goes. Give me a few days and I'll let you know how it turned out. Thanks for comments and suggestions.

Hud

hud wrote:

Give me a few days and I'll let you know how it turned out.

Cool.  I'll be interested in the results.

Andy

Yeah, I've tried it with ModelMaster Gloss Clear Acrylic, same brand as the paint. It certainly gives the flats a glossier finish but nowhere near as much as Future. To get it to the sheen of Future would require about a half a bottle of the MM stuff. So looking at it from that perspective the Future wins hands down. To be honest with you, I'm not sure if this whole idea is going to work or even be worth the trouble. I'm still in the lab right now :)  Do you know if the PS is glossier than the MM? I'll pick up a bottle next time out and try it. Maybe do a comparsion on all brands (compatable). Thanks.

Hud