My first airbrush experiance, and a few questions!

Anytime my friend.

MikeV wrote:

Ross, A little side note for you, continued use of ammonia can discolor the chrome on an airbrush.

Thanks, Mike, but I already knew that, which is why I always immediately flush with plenty of water after the last ammonia. I never let the part sit in Windex for any longer than absolutely necessary, either.

I wonder if it might be well to flush with a baking soda solution, after the ammonia but before the water. As a buffer, that solution should neutralize anything either acidic (hope not) or basic (ammonia) that might still be present.

Also a good reason to use needle lube, which had not occured to me.

Thanks again for all your help!

Ross,

A little side note for you, continued use of ammonia can discolor the chrome on an airbrush.

Bgrigg wrote:

It's ZEP brand, be careful to buy the one with ammonia, they also have an ammonia free concentrate.

Bill, I looked at two Home Depot stores, neither had a concentrate containing ammonia. I also checked the Zep website—also no concentrate containing ammonia, just a window cleaning concentrate without ammonia???

Triarius wrote:

Jim, if you get a scrap carbon dioxide or oxygen cylinder, you can avoid this problem. I run my two stage compressor for about five minutes at the start of a session. This give me enough air in the tank to brush at 15 psi continuously for 15 to 20 minutes. By putting a vent valve in the line from the compressor to the tank, I can also airbrush straight from the compressor, using the tank as a stilling tank. This is useful when I need to airbrush for another five minutes, or for cleaning. I can post a picture of the rig if you'd like.

Thanks Ross, my wife has been spraying on canvas at about 30 - 40 PSI. It seems the little air tank that's attached to the compressor has troubles keeping up with her at times.

I'm planning on, hopefully this spring, rigging something up with my big garage compressor so that the little compressor can be used just for our models. My biggest problem is keeping the big compressor and air supply warm enough during the winter as it's not near the house. Don't want to blow 10 degree air through an AB with paint. I'm renting this tiny mobile home right now, so I'm limited to what I can rig up. Hopefully that situation changes soon.

I was originally going to use an air tank of sorts (even an old oxygen welding tank), but my wife said no, buy the little hobby one and don't mess with going outside, starting up the big compressor, filling the tank, shutting down and draining the compressor, coming back in the house with snow and a big air tank. Just get a little compressor that will spray your models, plug it in and have fun. Who am I to argue... after all... she's the boss...

But thanks for the tip 

Bgrigg wrote:

Triarius wrote: Bill, what was that concentrated window cleaner at Home Depot called, specifically? I'm going through Windex at an alarming rate. It's ZEP brand, be careful to buy the one with ammonia, they also have an ammonia free concentrate.

Thanks, Bill. I'll pick some up tomorrow!

jhande wrote:

That air compressor looks similar to the one I have from Airbrush Depot. My wife works in spurts spraying now. She started out touching it at first and when it was too hot to touch she would stop for awhile so it could cool down. Now she sprays for maybe 15 - 20 minutes at a time, works on something else on her project and sprays again.

Jim, if you get a scrap carbon dioxide or oxygen cylinder, you can avoid this problem. I run my two stage compressor for about five minutes at the start of a session. This give me enough air in the tank to brush at 15 psi continuously for 15 to 20 minutes. By putting a vent valve in the line from the compressor to the tank, I can also airbrush straight from the compressor, using the tank as a stilling tank. This is useful when I need to airbrush for another five minutes, or for cleaning. I can post a picture of the rig if you'd like.

MikeV wrote:

Triarius wrote: Yet another good reason I don't use Model Master Acryl. I'm trying to avoid solvents to the greatest extent possible. The color range is excellent though. The substances we use for cleaning acrylics out of the airbrush are not exactly non-toxic either. As far as my problem green Tamiya, I had some stuck in my polyethylene mixing cup. Put some lacquer thinner in it and let is soak in the spray booth—half an hour later, I still couldn't get it out. Really odd. Try soaking it even longer. How thick is the paint?

They do have an excellent choice of colors, true.

The paint thickness is probably less than a mil. However, it is in a mold line on the bottom of the cup.

I'm sure I can get it out, it's just odd that the stuff is so tenacious—Windex is normally sudden death to other Tamiya paints.

My wife had fun learning to control the dual action airbrush too. Should have heard the weird sounds coming from her for the first few weeks... would have thought I had hundreds of mice fighting in the other room. You wouldn't believe the designs I would find in the morning on the milk jug either when I'd fix my cup of coffee. LOL

That air compressor looks similar to the one I have from Airbrush Depot. My wife works in spurts spraying now. She started out touching it at first and when it was too hot to touch she would stop for awhile so it could cool down. Now she sprays for maybe 15 - 20 minutes at a time, works on something else on her project and sprays again. I know heat is an enemy of compressor in general, but my large garage compressor runs all day and I can fry chicken on that thing. It's been that way for ump-teen years. But don't do that with your new hobby compressor, let it cool down. 

My wife uses (which ever we have on hand) -
car windshield washer fluid ($.97 a gl)...
non-sudsing ammonia mixed with tap water ($.89 a gl)...
Windex (in a pinch)...
I think she's sprayed other things through it too, like rubbing alcohol, but I don't know if that worked.

At the end of the day she takes the AB apart, cleans it real good by hand, dries it, lubes it, puts it back together and packs it away.

Triarius wrote:

Bill, what was that concentrated window cleaner at Home Depot called, specifically? I'm going through Windex at an alarming rate.

It's ZEP brand, be careful to buy the one with ammonia, they also have an ammonia free concentrate.

Triarius wrote:

Yet another good reason I don't use Model Master Acryl. I'm trying to avoid solvents to the greatest extent possible.

The color range is excellent though.
The substances we use for cleaning acrylics out of the airbrush are not exactly non-toxic either.

As far as my problem green Tamiya, I had some stuck in my polyethylene mixing cup. Put some lacquer thinner in it and let is soak in the spray booth—half an hour later, I still couldn't get it out. Really odd.

Try soaking it even longer. How thick is the paint?

MikeV wrote:

I agree with Scott. Model Master Acryl is tough to get out of the airbrush also so I usually use some lacquer thinner first and then spray an acrylic cleaner afterwards followed by water.

Yet another good reason I don't use Model Master Acryl. I'm trying to avoid solvents to the greatest extent possible. I sure hope they never discontinue PolyScale.

As far as my problem green Tamiya, I had some stuck in my polyethylene mixing cup. Put some lacquer thinner in it and let is soak in the spray booth—half an hour later, I still couldn't get it out. Really odd.

I agree with Scott.
Model Master Acryl is tough to get out of the airbrush also so I usually use some lacquer thinner first and then spray an acrylic cleaner afterwards followed by water.

Scott, thanks for that magic formula—I had a problem with Tamiya gloss green yesterday. Absolute puppy mother to get out of my Paasche H, and I cleaned it immediately after spraying (last color of the day). (I wish I could say I was painting a model, but I was repairing the camo on my compound bow.)

When all else fails a shot of laquer thinner will ALWAYS do the job!  I've recently gotten into the habit of finishing up the day by shooting a cup of laquer thinner through my airbrush.  Guaranteed to get everything out (except possibly urethane! And possibly parts of the airbrush to if it's one of the plastic ones).

Bgrigg wrote:

I'll have to go to Home Depot today and I will have a look. I took off the label of the jug I bought so I could use the bottle as a practice surface. I suggest using distilled water if you don't have a water softener or are in an area with soft water. The minerals in hard water will quickly ruin your airbrush!

Heh, heh! And thanks!

Good grief, Bill, I never thought of that about hard water! (I keep this up, and I'll be an unfrocked geologist…) Ammonia could, depending on the minerals involved (usually calcium carbonate, but there are others even worse) make that worse.

Scott, thanks for that magic formula—I had a problem with Tamiya gloss green yesterday. Absolute puppy mother to get out of my Paasche H, and I cleaned it immediately after spraying (last color of the day). (I wish I could say I was painting a model, but I was repairing the camo on my compound bow.)

I'll have to go to Home Depot today and I will have a look. I took off the label of the jug I bought so I could use the bottle as a practice surface.

I suggest using distilled water if you don't have a water softener or are in an area with soft water. The minerals in hard water will quickly ruin your airbrush!

Try MikeV's magic formula sometime, I've found that it works well with just about any acrylic except some Model Master grays (go figure!).

1 part Simple Green
1 part Windex
2 parts distilled water (tap water would probably work but it isn't as pure as distilled)

Bgrigg wrote:

Plain ordinary non-sudsing laundry ammonia will work just as well.

Bill, I tried that without success, at least for Tamiya paints. Rats! Ammonia is much cheaper than Windex.

Bgrigg wrote:

It doesn't have to be Windex either, I found a gallon jug of ammonia based generic window cleaner at my local Home Depot for $8 which makes 30 gallons of window cleaner. That's cheap and it works just as well.

I did find a generic ammonia window cleaner at Ace Hardware (Ace brand) that works just as well and costs a quarter of what Windex does. I've also heard that Simple Green is a dynamite cleaner, but I have not tried it yet.

Bill, what was that concentrated window cleaner at Home Depot called, specifically? I'm going through Windex at an alarming rate.

Lady Jemima, always run a little water through the airbrush after the Windex or whatever. The ammonia will attack the metal components of the brush if it is left in the brush long enough. It's not good for rubber, either.

Windex will clean better than water as it dissolves the paint particles better. Make sure that the Windex you use is the blue tinted ammonia based cleaner, the green stuff is useless for cleaning airbrushes with. It's the ammonia that works. Plain ordinary non-sudsing laundry ammonia will work just as well. I like using the blue tinted cleaners as I can quickly tell it apart from water.

It doesn't have to be Windex either, I found a gallon jug of ammonia based generic window cleaner at my local Home Depot for $8 which makes 30 gallons of window cleaner. That's cheap and it works just as well.

I'm using acrylics, which is what I'll only ever use. What are the advantages of using Windex verses simply regular water?  Just a better clean?

An ultrasonic jewelry cleaner...now there's one I wouldn't have thought of! Very good idea, though!

Hey LJ!  good to see ya back.  Bill was right... the only difference would be in the cleaner between acrylic and enamel...

The only time you should worry about major clean up is at the end of the day when you won't be shooting any more paint.  (or if it starts spraying funky midway), I usually just flush between colors and go on, if I get paint buildup in the tip I pull back the needle and with a Qtip dipped in thinner wipe it off.

At the end of the day I take out the needle, put the tip in a soft cloth with thinner on it and roll it in the cloth between my fingers  (never wipe front to back with the rag or the needle, you might bend it a tad), wipe off the tip and I am done.

About once a month, or sooner if spraying gets a bit wierd, I take the head and nozzle off and clean them.  There are several ways to do it.  I used to put it in the glass spray bottle and pour lacquer thinner to cover them and let them soak about 30 min or so. 

Now I found a much nicer and less smelly way to do it.  I bought me an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner..  I take the tip and nozzle off, put them in the basket along with the airbrush body, needle and anything else like paint cups I want to clean, fill it to the line with water or isopropyl alcohol and turn it on and run it for about 10 to 15 min.  Cleans them to looking like the day I got it!  I even have it by my desk for cleaning the color cup cap and such when it gets dried paint on them. 

Lady Jemima, welcome back!

Dual action airbrushes seem more difficult to use than they really are. Kind of like patting your head and rubbing your tummy at the same time, it takes a while to get the hang of it. Once you "click" with it, it will become second nature.

Small compressors get hot real fast. They aren't designed for use over an extended period of time. The key is to take a break and let it cool down.

How to clean is dependant on what media you are using, but the differences aren't that great. Cleaning the needle is pretty straight forward, using your finger is not a bad method, but be careful! The needles are, well needles and are very sharp.

The tip can be cleaned with a Qtip and whatever thinner is appropriate for the media you use. If it's acrylics simple ammonia works the best (the blue Windex is a good choice). Careful to pull back the needle tip so it doesn't get damaged.

I use only acrylics so I squirt Windex through my brush at fairly high pressure (I use a garage style compressor) and follow up with distilled water. I use distilled as I'm worried about mineral buildup as I live in a hard water area. Then I blast air through to dry it out. I remove the needle to insure it's clean and wipe needle lube on the front half so it moves nicely. The needle lube also prevents "dry tip".

If you're using enamals and lacquers I'll let somebody who uses them answer how best to clean! It probably won't be much different. Likely only the cleaning fluid will be different.

edited for tiep0$!