BADGER RECOMENDATIONS/THOUGHTS/INPUT

Wow-I'm glad I decided to check back in-missed a lot of good conversations/information.

Thanks to all who contributed...and asked questions.  Unless something changes, I will be going with the T&C Omni 4000.

Again, thanks.

I'm sure I'd have gotten it…eventually…

Triarius wrote:

Mike, would that be "Regdab"? It was the only lube I found on the DixieArt site, so I bought some.

That is it my friend!
By the way "Regdab" is Badger spelled backwards in case you missed that.

Ross- good choice!  I was about to jump in with a recommendation for the true gravity fed brush as well, but you beat me to it!!!  I think you can't go wrong, they're very easy to clean.. able to do detail at lower pressures and less overspray.  If you are only going to use a small amount of paint, just put a few drops in the cup and go to town!  I've painted with as few as 2 drops of paint in my Iwata for small things with no probs! 

And as long as you treat your brush well, the needles are not fragile in the least.  Let it drop nose down on your desk and it's a different story! 

I used to be stuck on bottom feed but I am a convert now!

Mike, would that be "Regdab"? It was the only lube I found on the DixieArt site, so I bought some.

It was my pleasure Ross.
I would also recommend you get some Badger Needle Juice also to lube the airbrush with as it makes the action smoother and keeps paint from drying in places you don't want it to.

Again, my warmest thanks! You've been wonderfully helpful!

No commission my friend, I just like to recommend the products I believe in and use myself.
I would buy an extra tip and needle to have in case you need it as the art stores and hobby shops don't usually carry parts for the Omni's.
Other than that, just take care of it, clean it good and be gentle when putting it back together and it should last a long time.
Glad I could help my friend and I am here if I can help in any other way.

Tell me, do you get a commission? Just kidding!

I keep thinking in terms of siphon feed, dagnabit!

I guess you've sold me on the T&C 4000. In fact, I'm building the order even as we "speak."

I'm getting an adapter so I can attach it to my Paasche hose (the Paasche will still be in considerable use.) Anything else I should get? Spare parts?

Ross,

The Paache glass jars will fit it yes, but the metal color cups will NOT!
No metal color cups fit it because of the bowl shape.
What makes you consider the 360?
You can put just a few drops of paint from an eye dropper into the cup of the Omni and do the same thing as using the small 360 cup. The only advantage to the 360 is that you can use the glass or plastic siphon-feed jars on it for spraying bigger amounts of paint, although the 1/3 oz cup size of the Omni holds enough for most any project in modeling.
I have 10 different Badger/Thayer & Chandlers so I will help if I can.

Mike, you're a prince!

Now I've got it down to the 360 (that tiny color cup) or the Omni.

Does anyone know whether Paasche cups will fit the 360?

Triarius wrote:

Mike, Looking at the parts diagrams, the Omni looks more complex than the 155. Yet you say it is easier to clean. IIRC, one of the advertising points of the 155 is ease of disassembly.

The Omni is not complex in the least bit.
The 155 is faster to disassemble slightly because of its quick needle removal and the fact that the head is finger tightened, but it is a siphon feed airbrush and won't spray reliably at the lower pressures that the Omni will. I took this pic of the two disassembled to show you the parts comparison.


As you can see the number of parts is really identical except for the reverse-a-guard aircap on the Omni which you don't even have to remove if you don't want.

Mike,

Looking at the parts diagrams, the Omni looks more complex than the 155. Yet you say it is easier to clean. IIRC, one of the advertising points of the 155 is ease of disassembly.

I do like that small cup on the 360—lately I've been doing a lot of small areas.

Not long now, I'm going to tape pictures to the wall, and throw a knife…

(more dramatic than a dart board!)

Ross,

I think the Omni 4000 would be your best bet.
It is easy to clean too!
It is the airbrush I use the most for modeling and the 360 would be second as I use it a lot for small jobs with the tiny cup it has.

MikeV wrote:

So which one are you leaning toward Ross?

Uuhh…ummmmm…aahhh…hmmmm…

Leaning? More like wobbling…

I'm having a hard time deciding between the Badger 360, 150, 155, 100, and Omni 4000.

Here are my predicaments:

I once (1970's) owned a Badger, don't remember the number, and I HATED it. Those d**m'd long, incredibly fragile, easy to bend just looking at them, needles! That's why I bought a Paasche.

The one thing I don't like about the Paasche is having to change needles, apertures, and tips. (I've replaced that absurd tiny set screw with a knurled screw.)

I hate taking apart airbrushes, so changing tips/needles is not desireable. This makes the 100 and 150 types problematic. However, they come highly recommended.

The 155 is attractive for two reasons—no needle change, and supposed ease of disassembly/cleaning/assembly. As for the latter, it still has a long, incredibly fragile needle.

The 360 is attractive because of the single needle and the ability to use either gravity of siphon feed. I wonder about the seals in the swivel, though.

Then there's the Omni 4000. I really like the looks of this brush, and the advertised features. I wonder about ease of cleaning, though.

I think the critical consideration is ease of disassembly/cleaning/reassembly.

Any additional thoughts, comments, hysterical laughter…?

<EDIT>

I just reread this thread, and I think, based on everything that has been said, that I am now leaning toward the Omni 4000, second is the 360, and third is the 155. Now I have to look at cost.

Any additional comments are eagerly anticipated.

Triarius wrote:

I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, and Bob for starting it. You have all made my decision both much easier and a little harder .

So which one are you leaning toward Ross?

I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, and Bob for starting it. You have all made my decision both much easier and a little harder .

MusicCity wrote:

Glad you found my web site useful, Bob.  Like most sites it will always be a work-in-progress. I wouldn't say that the 100 is actually fragile, just more so than the Omni series.  The nozzle on the 100 is very tiny but is mounted in the head so that you normally never need to take it out.  The nozzle of the 4000 is larger and easily removed.  If you drop the head of a 100 you will most likely damage the nozzle.  The 4000 is more forgiving in that respect.  The 100 also has a Teflon head washer that the Omni doesn't have.  That washer is easily lost if you aren't careful (there are a couple of them in my basement somewhere). As to disassembly, the 100 has a curved piece that fits behind the trigger.  It always takes me a couple of minutes with some tweezers to get it in the right position.  If I used it more I'd probably have that down pat though.  The Omni doesn't have that part and it is very easy to reassemble.  Other than that they both assemble pretty much the same way. I use my Omni more than my 100 but that is just because I've had it longer and am more comfortable with it.  Either one would be an excellent choice though, and pretty comparable in operation.

Scott, the newer Badger 100/150 line have slotted trigger returns that make that job MUCH easier than in the past. They simply lift out and drop in when you pull the needle. Not like the old days when you had to contort your fingers and such. Been there and done that!

 

E

bobbaily wrote:

Jim-no knocks taken.  Appriciate your approach.  I tried that with Dixieart and while they were helpful telling me that I couldn't use the Pasache air hose with the Badger product, they would not comment on a good application for my needs/uses.  I will be giving Badger a call next week thought. Scott-thanks again for sharing your experiences with both brushes.

You can use a Paasche hose with a Badger brush and vice versa with the proper adapter and they're pretty cheap. I run all of my brushes off of my Badger hose except for the Aztek, but that's another story.

 

E

Then there are bums like me who ends up having 6 airbrushes just to figure out which one is good for me.  Having yet to receive the HP-CH and HP-BH shipped from Hongkong, I gotta say every one of the others does the job they were currently assigned to do after trying them all in different roles.  Kinda makes me feel more retarded nowadays when I airbrush I had to pick which one to use since I have multiple ones for the same application (Like for small details I can use Tamiya SuperFine, Badger 100LG, 100SG, and the future HP-CH/BH, talk about overspending).  But then again that is one thing you won't get from a company. 

jhande wrote:

Not that I'm trying to knock anyone here for asking for help or people giving help. But does anyone ever give Badger a call when they are contemplating a Badger product?

The owner and President is a friend of mine so I talk to him.

Jim-no knocks taken.  Appriciate your approach.  I tried that with Dixieart and while they were helpful telling me that I couldn't use the Pasache air hose with the Badger product, they would not comment on a good application for my needs/uses.  I will be giving Badger a call next week thought.

Scott-thanks again for sharing your experiences with both brushes.

Not that I'm trying to knock anyone here for asking for help or people giving help. But does anyone ever give Badger a call when they are contemplating a Badger product?

I called their toll free number and spoke with a very nice person for what must have been 30 to 45 minutes. I explained everything that I was planning on doing with an airbrush and everything that I "might" want to try doing. She was very helpful and explained why certain brushes with certain needles would be my best choice for certain projects. In the end, it boiled down to one brush that would server all my needs to start with and I should get the extra needles (fine, medium and heavy). If I wanted to just spray my models, the same brush would be fine or I could get one other choice. Don't ask me now which they were, but they were the ones that are always mentioned here in the forum. I then took those 2 recommendations and browsed through the forum reading what people had to say about those AB's.

Sometimes the companies actually give good advice like the nice folks here.

Sorry for my ramblings... 

Glad you found my web site useful, Bob.  Like most sites it will always be a work-in-progress.

I wouldn't say that the 100 is actually fragile, just more so than the Omni series.  The nozzle on the 100 is very tiny but is mounted in the head so that you normally never need to take it out.  The nozzle of the 4000 is larger and easily removed.  If you drop the head of a 100 you will most likely damage the nozzle.  The 4000 is more forgiving in that respect.  The 100 also has a Teflon head washer that the Omni doesn't have.  That washer is easily lost if you aren't careful (there are a couple of them in my basement somewhere).

As to disassembly, the 100 has a curved piece that fits behind the trigger.  It always takes me a couple of minutes with some tweezers to get it in the right position.  If I used it more I'd probably have that down pat though.  The Omni doesn't have that part and it is very easy to reassemble.  Other than that they both assemble pretty much the same way.

I use my Omni more than my 100 but that is just because I've had it longer and am more comfortable with it.  Either one would be an excellent choice though, and pretty comparable in operation.

Thanks Scott-I've checked you website many times for info.  This picture helps.  Now I have to weigh ease of maintanence and the fact that the 100LG is more fragile than the 4000.  Looks like either one will be an improvement over my Passache H, which is good for most of my current needs.

Thanks again. 

I have to agree with Mike.  I have both the Omni 4000 and Badger 100.  While I use them both I have found that the 4000 is easier to disassemble and somewhat more robust in its construction.   The tiny nozzle on the 100 is easier to damage than the nozzle on the Omni series.

As to painting, they are both great.  I'm reluctant to include this photo because of the circumstances under which it was taken, but I will.  Just read the paragraph underneath it and understand that both brushes are capable of better work than this.

This photo was taken the day I received my Badger 100.  I had been spraying some large areas of an A-10 with Dark Ghost Gray from my Omni 4000.  The paint was not thinned for painting thin lines, it was thinned for painting large areas.  I also didn't try to "Optimize" the paint for the Badger 100, I just dumped it straight from the cup of the 4000 into the cup of the 100.  What I was trying to determine was a side-by-side comparison of the line width of the Omni 4000 and the Badger 100 with a medium tip (the "Fine" tip will do a little better if the paint will flow properly).  Had I really tried to get fine lines out of either one of them I could have done better than what the photo reflects, but I wasn't really trying at that time.

Tom & Mike-thanks for the reply & the input.  I've seen both of your work so I know I can trust your advise.  Not sure which route I'm going to take, but at least I have it narrowed down to two choices.

Tom-if I ever mention trying mottle on a 1/72nd scale project, please call for help!

 

Thanks again

 

bobbaily wrote:

Mike & Ryan-thanks for the input.  I think I've narrowed the choice down to the 100LG or the Omni 4000.  A lot of positive things said regarding the 100LG.  Your thoughts on the Omni 4000? Thanks

Bob,

For general overall spraying the Omni 4000 will spray just about as fine as the 100LG with the medium tip/needle combo. The main advantage to the 100LG would be that you can switch to the fine tip/needle combo and with the properly thinned, fine pigmented paints, you can get even finer lines if you practice.
The 100LG has a little better finish inside of the cup also but that is not really that big of a deal.
I use the Omni 4000 more because it is easier to disassemble and is not quite as fragile as the 100LG in terms of the tip being damaged, but either one would be an excellent choice.    
            

Bob - I've not sprayed with either one, but one of the big things that for me would be a big plus about the 100LG, is that with both the Fine and Medium needle/nozzle sets you can do everything with one brush, where with the 4000 you can do very good work but something like 1/72 German mottle would be more of a challenge.  (If you ever see yourself doing that type of work)

I know users of both brushes that have nothing but high things to say about them though, so with either road you take, I don't think you could go wrong.