So you wanna buy a double action airbrush ...?

H3nav wrote:

Tom, did you get alot of overspray when you did freehand camo with your Anthem?   E

I only did freehand camo with it once, and at first I really wasn't satisfied with the results... I put the model aside and forgot about it.. I took it out about a month ago and looked at it and it wasn't bad at all!  In fact I plan to finish it now.  I shot at 17psi or so from a safe distance out to eliminate bounce back, using minimal paint for the demarcation point, I always kept the paint stream pointing to the inside of the camo color and after looking at it with less critical eyes it did pretty good!  My gravity feed does much better, but comparitively the Anthem did more than acceptable!

I was able to respray the wing root area on a Kingfisher I was doing freehand without getting overspray on the white either...

Tom, did you get alot of overspray when you did freehand camo with your Anthem?

 

E

ABARNE wrote:

Trying to drum up Badger sales, are we??  Well, I do like the quality of my Badger 200, so if I ever decide to go for a double action, at the price, Badger's 100 does seem like a bargain.

No, just making a point that the airbrush does not have to be expensive to get great results.

You sure the Anthem would come in second?  My 200NH has the same needle/tip as the Anthem and when that thing is wide open, it sprays like firehose.

I meant out of the double-action models. I have not used the 200NH

aussie1 wrote:

Jesse I agree with what you're saying. When I started modelling I bought a no-name single for 30 bucks. Later on I bought an Aztek A470 double. I can honestly say that I have not done anything with the Aztek that I could not have done with the single action. The fine line nozzle gives me more control for camo of course but I could mask and use a single. Maybe it comes down to my lack of ability, but I find it much easier to use the A470 as a single action anyway. Even if you want to vary the width of lines, surely it's easier to mask and spray than to try and go in the right direction while pulling back on that trigger! My next AB will be a good single with a fine tip included.

Hey Aussie,

I'm in the same boat as you.  I have an A470 and generally just use it as a single action.  Recently I purchased the A320 which is a single action, internal mix that uses the same cups and nozzles as the A470.  You might want to give that a try.  The ease of use is incredible.

Jesse

ABARNE wrote:

You sure the Anthem would come in second?  My 200NH has the same needle/tip as the Anthem and when that thing is wide open, it sprays like firehose.

Yup... I've owned both airbrushes and you can believe the 175 can push more paint... when you crank the 175 full open it's like a fire hose...    But down in the lower ranges of the trigger movement it's quite manageable for lighter doses of paint!

I've owned both single and double actions and I believe the double to be more versatile for me.  As Mike said I can vary the amount of paint coming out for getting in tight places and instantly go back to all over coverage in the open spaces.  With my newest brush I can get in and paint at the demarcation line on freehand camo without overspray then immediately paint the body away from that line without stopping.  No masking, no adjustments.  I've never noticed a difficulty in coordinating the movement of the trigger.  In fact I'm really only performing one action... the movement back and forth of the trigger.  I've already got it depressed so there's no thinking about that.  And there's not many times I adjust my flow greatly while spraying, usually it is spray, get close to an area where I need to throttle it down, adjust my finger, spray again... I just do it with my finger immediately instead of adjusting a knob or what not.  I guess it's kinda like playing trombone, after awhile you don't think about how far you pull the trigger back or not, its instinctive.

Jesse I agree with what you're saying.

When I started modelling I bought a no-name single for 30 bucks. Later on I bought an Aztek A470 double.
I can honestly say that I have not done anything with the Aztek that I could not have done with the single action. The fine line nozzle gives me more control for camo of course but I could mask and use a single.

Maybe it comes down to my lack of ability, but I find it much easier to use the A470 as a single action anyway.

Even if you want to vary the width of lines, surely it's easier to mask and spray than to try and go in the right direction while pulling back on that trigger!

My next AB will be a good single with a fine tip included.

MikeV wrote:

ABARNE wrote: With a single action, you can adjust the the piant flow off the model, and once set, paint away without worrying about it. Until tip-dry starts affecting it and then you are in the same boat.

I agree to a point.  Depending on the length of the painting session and how tight a line one is spraying, periodic needle adjustments will probably be needed.  However, the adjustments can be done off the model, so if you you accidentally open it to far, you've glopped up your test surface rather than your model.  So on that issue, I still feel that the single action is easier for the novice with the dual action more capable for the more experienced user.

Interestly, with the Paasche H where the needle adjustment is just under the tip, as long as you're not holding the model with your other hand, you can fairly easily do minor adjustments while painting on the model.  So maybe it is effectively a one and a half action 

MikeV wrote:

Mike Lavalle usually uses an Iwata HP-CS I believe for most of his work, which is real similar in spraying characteristics to the Badger 100.

Trying to drum up Badger sales, are we??  Well, I do like the quality of my Badger 200, so if I ever decide to go for a double action, at the price, Badger's 100 does seem like a bargain.

MikeV wrote:

Yes, the 175 Crescendo with a medium or heavy needle/tip combo puts out more paint than any other airbrush out there if you blast it wide open. The Anthem 155 would be second I think.

You sure the Anthem would come in second?  My 200NH has the same needle/tip as the Anthem and when that thing is wide open, it sprays like firehose.

 

 

 

tho9900 wrote:

Ed - just don't pull that trigger back during the wet season if ya know what I mean... haha...  it can also put more moderate amounts of paint out with no skill needed... just don't pull that trigger back too far, this is where the milk jug comes in handy the first few times  you spray with it...  I used to have one and it did fine for general modeling... although, the first time I pulled that trigger back.. WOA!!!!

Well Tom, I'll keep this in mind I think I'm better off usin' my '66 F-100 "if" the 175 puts out that much when wide open would blow the milk jug off the desk!!
It's 9:10pm & UPS hasn't come by yet seems it got missorted in San Ramone,Ca

Ed - just don't pull that trigger back during the wet season if ya know what I mean... haha...  it can also put more moderate amounts of paint out with no skill needed... just don't pull that trigger back too far, this is where the milk jug comes in handy the first few times  you spray with it... 

I used to have one and it did fine for general modeling... although, the first time I pulled that trigger back.. WOA!!!!

Part of my concern with single action airbrushes versus double action come from the following example that really happened (sounds like an OnStar commercial):

A friend of mine started with a double action airbrush.  After ruining a few models, he gave up modeling thinking that he wasn't able to accomplish the painting he wanted.  I tried to get him back into the hobby by suggesting an easier to use airbrush, but no go.  I wonder how many other would-be modelers went the same route.

It's kind of like wooden ship models.  If you start out with something too complicated, you might never finish and quit.

Hippy-Ed wrote:

usmc1371 wrote: Oh yeah of course, using a regulator will decrease the amount of paint coming out.  I'm just saying the Cresendo can pump out a lot of paint.  You can empty bottle in under a minute.  I loved the 'heaviness' of the airbrush. I didn't know it could put out that much paint I am eagerly awaiting my Badger to get here.... been hanging around all day &  can't wait to feel it in my grubby lil' hands Bwaahahha

Yes, the 175 Crescendo with a medium or heavy needle/tip combo puts out more paint than any other airbrush out there if you blast it wide open. The Anthem 155 would be second I think.

usmc1371 wrote:

Oh yeah of course, using a regulator will decrease the amount of paint coming out.  I'm just saying the Cresendo can pump out a lot of paint.  You can empty bottle in under a minute.  I loved the 'heaviness' of the airbrush.

I didn't know it could put out that much paint I am eagerly awaiting my Badger to get here.... been hanging around all day &  can't wait to feel it in my grubby lil' hands Bwaahahha

Money asside, the choice of double or single action really depends on what you are trying to do. Mike and the others that also paint shirts and do freehand work need the variability that a double action privides. Most hobbiests-model builders really can get by just fine with a good single action. We spray base colors. We mask and spray patterns. We freehand the edge of a cammo pattern and then fill it in. We weather( washes etc..). We clear coat. These are things that a single action preforms best at. I had a badger 200 for 20 years. I loved the preset handle because I could set the pattern I wanted and maintain it. I eventually wanted more. I needed an airbrush that could do a finer line and one I felt had a finer edge with less spatter so I got an Iwata HP-C. I love my HP-C. Could I go back and do the same quality work with the badger? Yeah probably. The badger can easily do 99% of what I want done. Do I use the Iwata to do what the badger could do, sure I do. I paid a lot and I am not going to just let it sit around besides it is just a tad easier to clean.   Greg

ABARNE wrote:

With a single action, you can adjust the the piant flow off the model, and once set, paint away without worrying about it.

Until tip-dry starts affecting it and then you are in the same boat.

Obviously, extreme high end units that the Mike Lavalles of this world need to earn a living are quite pricey, but something like MikeV's Badger 100 can be found for well under $100.

Mike Lavalle usually uses an Iwata HP-CS I believe for most of his work, which is real similar in spraying characteristics to the Badger 100.

I probably would disagree with MikeV about a double action being no more difficult to learn than a single action.  Granted the double action that I was using was an Aztek and I have heard a lot of people indicate that that its trigger feel is weird compared to a more conventional AB.  Given that disclaimer, I found moving the trigger to the exact, ideal paint flow setting while painting my model to be a bit hit or miss, particularly while worrying about how close the brush is to the model, moving the brush over the model, etc.  With a single action, you can adjust the the piant flow off the model, and once set, paint away without worrying about it.

I can see that a double action would offer better control, at least when properly handled, in some circumstances, but up to now I haven't encountered any modelling situations in which having a double action AB would be a benefit compared to my single action units.  Looking at all my models that I've built, I can safely say that any air-brushing deficiencies were due to my level of experience rather than lack of capability from the airbrush.   

On the other hand, I think the price preak between single and double action units is somewhat overstated as well.  Obviously, extreme high end units that the Mike Lavalles of this world need to earn a living are quite pricey, but something like MikeV's Badger 100 can be found for well under $100.  I recall one distributor pricing it for only $20 or $25 more than a Badger 200 single action/

The bottom line, is properly used you can get great results with a single action AB like the venerable Paasche H.  But if you really want to go whole hog, and get a good double-action airbrush, you don't have to break the bank to do so.

usmc1371 wrote:

That's interesting.  I believe most people would say a single action is easier, by nature of the airbrush, to use than a double action.  What kind of single action did you have? Jesse

An old Badger. The blue one.

Just been taking some getting used to the dual. I like how I can get the air going to clean the nozzle of any splatter, move it over the model and gently start the spraying without getting a dark dot first.

It is only a matter of preference.
Just because these they put out great work does not mean that a single action is on par with a double action, it only means that these men learned to use them to suit their needs.
A double-action airbrush allows much more precise control and is not any harder to learn to use.
I have never owned a single-action airbrush and never will because they offer no advantage whatsoever.
They are also not that much more expensive than the good single-action models and most quality ones can be had for around $70.

I learned to airbrush using a single-action Paasche, and got fine results with it.  Quite a few years ago, I upgraded to a double-action Paasche V.  It took some practice to get used to, but I like it a lot better and I would never go back to a single action.  I think the results I get with it are pretty similar to what I could do with the single action, but I find it easier to use (once you get used to it, of course) .  If  I am painting an aircraft model, I want more paint coming out to paint the wings upper surface, but less paint over the canopy (less chance of paint getting under the masking), maybe less paint in wing roots and corners and even less near color demarcation lines.  All this can be done on the fly with a double action by adjusting paint flow as you paint, without having to put down the model, adjust the spray and test the pattern before picking up the model again. 

No doubt some people get great results with single-action brushes (Shep Paine is my hero!), but I think a double-action is worth the money.     

Phil

Oh yeah of course, using a regulator will decrease the amount of paint coming out.  I'm just saying the Cresendo can pump out a lot of paint.  You can empty bottle in under a minute.  I loved the 'heaviness' of the airbrush.

usmc1371 wrote:

I had a Badger 175 Cresendo.  It was a nice airbrush but pumps out alot of paint. I wonder how many people just jump right into a double action airbrush because they think "well it's the most expensive and has the most features, so it must be the best".

With an airflow regulattor set at a low setting it shouldn't put out alot of paint. i've read this somewhere here in the forums.   I am  going to be busy getting the feel for it when it arrives later today.

I had a Badger 175 Cresendo.  It was a nice airbrush but pumps out alot of paint.

I wonder how many people just jump right into a double action airbrush because they think "well it's the most expensive and has the most features, so it must be the best". 

I think I'll jump in here at the moment, I have a central Pneumatic single action A/B bottom feeder & later today I'll be upgrading to a Badger 175 double action So I can't say which I prefer just yet as I'll be doing some testing when it arrives  I've  noticed alot of the modelers here use dual action, some use gravity feed, others, the bottom feeders. Yet, there are some who do excellent jobs with brushpainting. IMHO it's to each their own on what they prefer

That's interesting.  I believe most people would say a single action is easier, by nature of the airbrush, to use than a double action.  What kind of single action did you have?

Jesse

I just started using a double action brush and find it a bit easier to use than a single action. I guess it's up to each person what they prefer.

Oh, and my brush is a cheapie Iwata knock-off...