Ignorant people

former professional?.that sounds like something in itself

I told him I thought he was just a wannabe blowing smoke.

I was reading that thread, it made me laugh. He obvioiusly doesn't know who he's arguing with, dont let it bug you too much.

I know the type you're talking about, Mike. Deal with them myself from time to time on computer issues. I don't bother arguing with them, though. It's like wrestling with a pig. Even if you win, you're covered in dirt, smell like crap- and the pig is as happy as ever.

I usually answer by simply saying "Sounds like you're all over it sport." LOL

WOW...Yeah I signed up over there today and was looking around in that area and ran across it...I just saw your last post to...you tell em Mike!

Kinda reminded me of when a friend of my wife's wanted me to help him fix his boat which he had no clue about ( you just put gas in it and drive right?!)...If I don't know what I'm talking about I certainly won't even attempt to sound like it.

Better to seem a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt...something some people have never heard of LOL.

Very true Mark!
I don't know everything and don't claim to but if I don't know something about airbrushes I can find out from someone who does and pass it along.

Just me being ignorant... I mean that literally because I do not know... doesn't tip size increase the potential width.  The taper is what controls the width though... right?


I used to work in an autoparts store.  Did you folks know that everyone in the US is a ASE master mechanic that knows every detail about every car.  They also need you to put the windshield wipers on their cars.  The point is that 95% of people that talk about things, no matter what it is, know only enough to be a complete pain.

MortarMagnet wrote:

Just me being ignorant... I mean that literally because I do not know... doesn't tip size increase the potential width.  The taper is what controls the width though... right?

Tip size and needle size are complimentary to each other depending on the medium being sprayed but yes taper is what really controls fine line size.
Put a fine needle in an airbrush with the medium tip and it will spray a finer line than the medium needle will because of the faster taper. Airbrushes with very small tips such as the fine Sotar tip and the Iwata Micron are made that way to produce the finest lines with paint mediums that will flow well through them such as inks and watercolors. A smaller tip does not necessarily mean a finer line by its size though and that is the point I am trying to make.

I see.  I don't airbrush mostly on account of the investment.  The wife doesn't like the $$$$$ that go to "toys" and not "her" so I use "spray cans."  No one believes me that color mixing can be done with two spray cans.  It really wastes alot of paint though.

Mike, I rate "expert" in several fields, and there is one way to tell whether someone is an expert or not: The real experts know that they don't know everything, and are perfectly willing to admit it. What they do know is how to find out what they don't know.

"…former professional airbrush artist…" What happened, did he get unfrocked? Disrated? Dismissed the service?

There was a time when being a "Professional" at anything meant that at least 25% of your gross income was derived from that occupation.  These days being a "Professional" simply means that you decided to add that to your self-proclaimed title.  Today if you aren't a "Professional" at something then apparently you are just another person.

I've worked with computers since the early 80's.  I've written tons of software in virtually any language you want to name, and I know them inside and out.  I finished part of the requirements for an MCSE certification until I finally decided that I don't really care what Microsoft certifies me as.  I still get a kick out of going in some stores and listening to the "Professionals" give computer advice and then wondering what is going to happen when the person follows that advice.

The bottom line is that ANYBODY can be a "Professional" these days, but the ability to do something well will still separate those who can from those who just talk.  Don't worry about it, Mike.  We know who has the ability and who to listen to.

I wouldn't worry too much about it Mike and please don't lose any sleep over it.

The title of "Professional" that one gives himself these days certainly doesn't mean what it did years ago. Or maybe it does and I was just too young and naive??

In any case, during most of my journeys and careers through life, I've noticed one thing...
Most that proclaim to be professional are... "Professional Bullshitters"!  Or at least try to be as some of the more intelligent people can spot them a mile away. 

And then there's the 19 year old cashier at Wal*Mart that is an expert at CAD, computer programming and repair. He offered to fix my computer, customize my AutoCAD software, network my home, but said I had to lose Netscape and Firefox and use IE as all the bugs and worms attack the Mozilla based browsers.   No thanks, just make sure you can count back the correct change you owe me, I've got it under control.

Oh by the way Mike... Dino found a Vega 600 for me at the garage sale price ($20). It will be in the mail soon once my PayPal clears. Will let you know how it works out. 

The terms "expert" and "professional" get thrown around alot by people who don't rate either. It has reached the point that governments are licensing them—and doing an odd job of it, at least in some cases. As Scott said, if you don't (or didn't) make a substantial amount of your income at it, you are no professional. And as for "expert," that term has become an epithet in some circles because of jackasses like the one Mike encountered.

That being said, although "amatuer" is often used as a put-down, it isn't and never should be. It means one who does something for the love of it, often as well or better than someone who gets paid for it—a professional. What do you call someone motivated primarily by money? Mercenary, with all the negative connotations the word can have.

Mike, when you encounter pompous nebishes like that, try not to laugh to hard. You might hurt yourself!

Triarius wrote:

"…former professional airbrush artist…" What happened, did he get unfrocked? Disrated? Dismissed the service?

ROTFLMBO

I hadn't thought about it that way.

"We're sorry sir, we've got to take away your license. You were spraying an unapproved pattern in a designated Triangles, Circles and Squares Only zone."

MikeV wrote:

Is it just me or does it bug you when ignorant people argue about things they know nothing of? Some guy from Belgium on the ARC Forum argued with me that tip size determines line width and I told him that was a sales ploy and that needle taper is what determines line width. I told him that Ken at Badger Airbrush even told me this and that he should not argue things he is obviously ignorant of and his response was, "I am a former professional airbrush artist"......yada yada. So what? That makes you an expert on airbrush design? As Bugs Bunny would say, "What a Maroon" Thanks for letting me vent guys.

sir, i dare say you have NO idea what you're talking about!  the taper of the needle is nothing but a marketing tool and a fraud.  nore is your so-called expert what he claims to be as the size of the nozzle is in fact only a minor role in determining the spray width.  the true factor in shaping the cone of paint flow through the atmosphere is the color of the nozzle.  57% of the population is aware of these determinations of the artistic nature and would clarify if asked on the matter of the subject at hand.  there are principles involved here that you obviously do not comprehend and for this you have my sympathy but i feel that you should be educated on the subject.  out of the kindness of my heart i shall describe an experiment that will prove beyond doubt the facts i speak here:

obtain a bottle of heinz ketchup.  note the cap.  flip open the tip and note that the nozzle is WHITE.  squeeze the bottle and note that the stream of delicious ketchup is rather narrow.  now, remove the cap completely.  note that the nozzle is now RED.  feel free to flip the bottle and apply gentle pressure.  note the generous stream of ketchup splattering at your feet.  an airbrush works much the same way.  proof complete.

That is Hillarious!!!

lol!!!  At first I wasn't believing my eyes at what you were saying!!!

Mike, for a second I thought your topic line was going to be followed "shouldn't be allowed to breed".

Hey Mike, I must admit that when I first read your post, I strongly disagreed with you on this one. But it was on my mind all day at work and the commute home. Then it clicked while sitting on the couch. I thought back to our previous post about the 3155. Then I thought about conversations with Ken's people in the different sections of Badger and Scott Craig's website. Yes, you are very good at what you do, but most hobbyist don't think on that level of the dynamics of it all. So here's the deal as told by me. It all depends on what you are used to. I grew up on Badger's 100 series type heads, XF, IL, and HD now known as fine, medium, and large. Modeler's, for the most part, only use one type of medium. Yes, there are variations of viscosity and such, but they are all relatively thick as compared to inks and dyes. So, given th same medium, same viscosity, and same pressure, you will see a vast difference in line width from different size tips and nozzles in the traditional illustration or "detail" brush. However, if you decided to mix and match the needle/nozzle combo and swap mediums, the extreme tapered needle would still be capable of fine lines per se, but the weight of the line would come into play as the nozzle size would determine the amount of fluid ( based on viscosity ) released for the spray. Now to prove all of this? The Iwata Eclipse BCS. Although it has a .5mm cone nozzle, the needle taper will allow it to go from HAIRLINE to 2 inches. However, hairline can only be achieved with the proper medium and air pressure. No way is Pactra R/C paint going down as a hairline because you have to push to much air to move the paint. The next thing that comes into play is the ability of the user to maximize the capabilties of his brush, but that's another conversation for another day.

No disrepect to anyone on this board in any way, shape, or form, but the finest airbrushers that I have had the pleasure of conversing with personally are Tom, Mike, and Scott. Thanks guys, I'll keep learning from ya!

 

E

Thanks H3Nav.

You are free to speak your mind or disagree with me anytime you want as I do not have all the answers and never will.
When things get really technical I email Ken at Badger as he IS an expert.
His grandfather machined parts for Thayer & Chandler and Wold airbrushes many years ago and he has worked every department of Badger Airbrush Co and knows what he is talking about.
Heck, he even gets out on the floor and helps the workers when he can.
He is also about the nicest guy you will ever meet.

goat monkey wrote:

MikeV wrote: Is it just me or does it bug you when ignorant people argue about things they know nothing of? Some guy from Belgium on the ARC Forum argued with me that tip size determines line width and I told him that was a sales ploy and that needle taper is what determines line width. I told him that Ken at Badger Airbrush even told me this and that he should not argue things he is obviously ignorant of and his response was, "I am a former professional airbrush artist"......yada yada. So what? That makes you an expert on airbrush design? As Bugs Bunny would say, "What a Maroon" Thanks for letting me vent guys. sir, i dare say you have NO idea what you're talking about!  the taper of the needle is nothing but a marketing tool and a fraud.  nore is your so-called expert what he claims to be as the size of the nozzle is in fact only a minor role in determining the spray width.  the true factor in shaping the cone of paint flow through the atmosphere is the color of the nozzle.  57% of the population is aware of these determinations of the artistic nature and would clarify if asked on the matter of the subject at hand.  there are principles involved here that you obviously do not comprehend and for this you have my sympathy but i feel that you should be educated on the subject.  out of the kindness of my heart i shall describe an experiment that will prove beyond doubt the facts i speak here: obtain a bottle of heinz ketchup.  note the cap.  flip open the tip and note that the nozzle is WHITE.  squeeze the bottle and note that the stream of delicious ketchup is rather narrow.  now, remove the cap completely.  note that the nozzle is now RED.  feel free to flip the bottle and apply gentle pressure.  note the generous stream of ketchup splattering at your feet.  an airbrush works much the same way.  proof complete.

I stand corrected! You sir are a genius!

MikeV wrote:

goat monkey wrote:  MikeV wrote: Is it just me or does it bug you when ignorant people argue about things they know nothing of? Some guy from Belgium on the ARC Forum argued with me that tip size determines line width and I told him that was a sales ploy and that needle taper is what determines line width. I told him that Ken at Badger Airbrush even told me this and that he should not argue things he is obviously ignorant of and his response was, "I am a former professional airbrush artist"......yada yada. So what? That makes you an expert on airbrush design? As Bugs Bunny would say, "What a Maroon" Thanks for letting me vent guys. sir, i dare say you have NO idea what you're talking about!  the taper of the needle is nothing but a marketing tool and a fraud.  nore is your so-called expert what he claims to be as the size of the nozzle is in fact only a minor role in determining the spray width.  the true factor in shaping the cone of paint flow through the atmosphere is the color of the nozzle.  57% of the population is aware of these determinations of the artistic nature and would clarify if asked on the matter of the subject at hand.  there are principles involved here that you obviously do not comprehend and for this you have my sympathy but i feel that you should be educated on the subject.  out of the kindness of my heart i shall describe an experiment that will prove beyond doubt the facts i speak here: obtain a bottle of heinz ketchup.  note the cap.  flip open the tip and note that the nozzle is WHITE.  squeeze the bottle and note that the stream of delicious ketchup is rather narrow.  now, remove the cap completely.  note that the nozzle is now RED.  feel free to flip the bottle and apply gentle pressure.  note the generous stream of ketchup splattering at your feet.  an airbrush works much the same way.  proof complete. I stand corrected! You sir are a genius!

The "master" has spoken  Mike, LoL you

goat monkey wrote:

sir, i dare say you have NO idea what you're talking about!  the taper of the needle is nothing but a marketing tool and a fraud.  nore is your so-called expert what he claims to be as the size of the nozzle is in fact only a minor role in determining the spray width.  the true factor in shaping the cone of paint flow through the atmosphere is the color of the nozzle.  57% of the population is aware of these determinations of the artistic nature and would clarify if asked on the matter of the subject at hand.  there are principles involved here that you obviously do not comprehend and for this you have my sympathy but i feel that you should be educated on the subject.  out of the kindness of my heart i shall describe an experiment that will prove beyond doubt the facts i speak here: obtain a bottle of heinz ketchup.  note the cap.  flip open the tip and note that the nozzle is WHITE.  squeeze the bottle and note that the stream of delicious ketchup is rather narrow.  now, remove the cap completely.  note that the nozzle is now RED.  feel free to flip the bottle and apply gentle pressure.  note the generous stream of ketchup splattering at your feet.  an airbrush works much the same way.  proof complete.

DAMN, now you tell me... I could have saved my money and instead of buying different airbrushes I could have bought different color caps for my ketchup bottle.

What color cap would give me a hairline pattern? The white color sprays too big.

So if I want a lot of coverage....I should skip the bottles of ketchup and go get a large can of it from Sam's?

Wow, guess I shouldn't order the new airbrush then....

I really hate you people.  Here I am trying to watch my waistline and all you can do is talk about ketchup.  So last night I had three Johnsonville brats and I applied the ketchup using my Aztek airbrush.  I thinned it with relish and onions.  I was able to get a good one inch wide spray pattern to cover the whole brat.  In order to avoid runs I started spraying before the brat and I continued spraying past the end of the brat.  Mmmmmm....airbrushed ketchup.....

 

Eric

Did you use a base coat of ...say... spicy mustard?

I generally primer with mayonaisse, spray the spicy mustard basecoat, then mask and spray the ketchup camo pattern. 

espins1 wrote:

I generally primer with mayonaisse, spray the spicy mustard basecoat, then mask and spray the ketchup camo pattern.

Sounds delicious

Hippy-Ed wrote:

espins1 wrote: I generally primer with mayonaisse, spray the spicy mustard basecoat, then mask and spray the ketchup camo pattern.  Sounds delicious

The weathering is the best part... I muddy it up good with hot chili, and sprinkle cheese all over it to so as to aid in concealment.