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GAH! Chasing 'orange peel' back and forth... stop the madness!

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  • Member since
    December 2004
GAH! Chasing 'orange peel' back and forth... stop the madness!
Posted by vfxart on Saturday, June 10, 2006 6:22 PM
Awright, so I admit this is my first spray can finish, working on a motorcycle kit with all that that implies for painting (two tone, lots of compound curves, want a real deep finish)

Finding that although I've done pretty well with the spray can that I can't seem to do away with as much of the 'uneven-ness' or minor orange peel that wants to creep in, an I'm going nuts chasing it back and forth. Get an area to work, goof another (or notice another's goofed), try to touch it up or rework it and bang, goof the first one again...

Thought I'd take time away from it and ask... how much do you try to eliminate the effect before you think a gloss coat can help? I've probably sanded as much off as I've sprayed on to try to even out the surface (to the touch, of course, you can't feel anything...) Using a spray as it's the only way to get the recommended color and I've never decanted sprays for AB use (though I've probably got equivalents, this looks fantastic when it works... just can't get a consistent finish)

Driving me nuts...

I should add that I'm curious to what extent a gloss coat will help even this visually... it at all...?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, June 10, 2006 8:55 PM

What kind of paint are you using and how far from the surface are you spraying?

 

E

  • Member since
    December 2004
Posted by vfxart on Sunday, June 11, 2006 1:44 PM
Tamiya TS, and probably about 8-10" on average...
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: White Mountains, NH
Posted by jhande on Sunday, June 11, 2006 1:58 PM
I've worked with spray cans for years.

Orange-Peel effect: try spraying lighter coats of paint from a distance of 10 to 12 inches away. It's a fine difference between a mist coat and a wet coat sometimes when working with spray cans.
To fix the orange-peel: lightly and evenly wet sand with #1200 to #2000 grit.
If it was your primer coat and you didn't sand through to the plastic, spray your finish coats.
If you get orange-peel in your finish coat, wet sand as above; follow up with a polishing cream such as Mequiar's Scratch'X then wax; or spray your clear coat.

Hope that helps some. 

-- EDIT --

I never worked with Tamiya paints or acrylics, so my products and steps might need to be altered a bit. Sorry! Slow typer here.



-- Jim --
"Put the pedal down & shake the ground!"

  • Member since
    December 2004
Posted by vfxart on Sunday, June 11, 2006 2:08 PM
Thanks... will head down for another go in a little while... these were the wet coats, but I can't help wonder if they were goofed ahead of time (the mist coats looked pretty good to me though...)  More as it happens.
  • Member since
    October 2005
Posted by gulfstreamV on Sunday, June 11, 2006 2:15 PM
Yeah.. try what jhandle said, also make sure the paint can is well-shaken(of course) and not Cold. I've had luck with Tamiya sprays by putting them in a container of hot tap water(about 1/2 submereged) or simply sitting them in the direct sunlight before I sprayed...Cool [8D]
Stay XX Thirsty, My Fellow Modelers.
  • Member since
    December 2004
Posted by vfxart on Sunday, June 11, 2006 2:59 PM
Yeah, warmed it up a bit each time... got back a bit further this time... just frustrating. Getting to the point where I want it to be over with, so have to be careful not to flub it up! Fingers crossed, the current layer's drying now...

This is also going to be a two-tone finish, so have to pay attention to where the edges meet, and give it enough drying time etc before the darker color is put down. The second color will be airbrushed, so not quite as concerned... I just hope the two areas are close enough in quality that it doesn't spell 'airbrush here, spray can there'. :)

  • Member since
    October 2005
Posted by gulfstreamV on Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:07 PM
In my experience rattle can goes on a little thicker than A/B, some very-fine sand and the clear coat should help. good luck!....Cool [8D]
Stay XX Thirsty, My Fellow Modelers.
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: White Mountains, NH
Posted by jhande on Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:38 PM
 vfxart wrote:

This is also going to be a two-tone finish, so have to pay attention to where the edges meet, and give it enough drying time etc before the darker color is put down. The second color will be airbrushed, so not quite as concerned... I just hope the two areas are close enough in quality that it doesn't spell 'airbrush here, spray can there'. :)



What I would recommend then is polishing out the first coat. Since you are using Tamiya acrylic? then I'm not sure my ScratchX would be your best option. From what I hear the Novus polishing system of products are designed for plastics and will serve you well. Once you have that done and your first coat looks great, then you are off to a good start for your second coat. Polish that one, clear coat and everything blends together nicely.

 vfxart wrote:
I've never decanted sprays for AB use (though I've probably got equivalents, this looks fantastic when it works... just can't get a consistent finish)


I found this if you ever want to avoid the spray can issue again.
Decanting Tamiya Spaycans - ScaleWiki



-- Jim --
"Put the pedal down & shake the ground!"

  • Member since
    December 2004
Posted by vfxart on Sunday, June 11, 2006 6:31 PM
You know, I'm not suite sure how to answer the question about how to refer to the Tamiya sprays..

Technically, I think they're lacquers, so when the topic comes up I always wonder, is the person I'm talking to calling them acrylics as a general cover for the Tamiya range (but knows they're lacquers) or does he/she think that it is an acrylic spray? I get confused myself!

Thanks for the link and the cool thoughts on how to proceed. Jadies and lentilmen, we find ourselves in the midst of a learning experience (double dog grrr...)

Anyone know how to get over this perfectionist attitude? I mean, can't I do away with patience, experience, listening to the advice of peers and friends and just expect the model to look amazing in spite of my short history with this stuff? Can't I?!

Thanks again to everyone...

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: White Mountains, NH
Posted by jhande on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:03 PM
I owe you a hugh appology vfx. I did not know much about the Tamiya line of paint and only went by what I've heard and read from the above ScaleWiki link -
"... Also, remember that it´s a lacquer paint now and not a regular acrylic and therefore it will act differently."

I should have gone straight to Tamiya for the correct scoop -
"The paint is synthetic lacquer that cures in a short period of time... Tamiya spray paints are not affected by acrylic or enamel paints. Therefor, following the painting of the entire assembly, details can be added or picked out using enamel and/or acrylic paints... "

So with that, ignore my mentioning of polishing acrylics or plastics and you should be fine.

Again, I'm sorry for any confuse I caused.  Sad [:(]


-- Jim --
"Put the pedal down & shake the ground!"

  • Member since
    December 2004
Posted by vfxart on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:36 PM
Oh hey, you've done a lot more to help than to hinder!

So, the layer looks 'okay', and now the hunt is on for a polish that won't interefere with paint coats over the top of them, if I understand things correctly. I'm thinking about staying 'in house' and getting Tamiya's polishing compounds (at least for these stages)

I'm guessing that if I polish this layer to the point where I'm happy with it, then get the second color coats to work and polish them to the same degree, the final clear coats will help unify the look of the different layers of paint, and I've got to be careful that any potential seams or lines between the layers are carefully (ulp) removed...

The adventure continues...


  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: White Mountains, NH
Posted by jhande on Monday, June 12, 2006 8:08 AM
Thanks, I try my best when I can.

A polish shouldn't interfere with any following coats of paint, other than being too smooth of a surface for paint adhesion. Polishing products are related to rubbing compounds, just a much finer grit. I have also used Crest brand toothpaste (light blue original kind) with good results. If you are good with the wet sanding method, you can use #2000 to #3000 grit and lightly sand until smooth. I heard mention here about using paper coffee filters.

Come time to work on the second coat - wet sand or polish after removing the tape.
Use care and caution along the edge where the tape was. What I usually do is work on the main part of the painted area and get that smooth (just like on the first coat above). Now for the tricky part, the taped edge where the colors meet. [I'll try to use key's to help explain LOL]
When you painted and removed the tape, you are left with a sharp raised edge kind of like this - " _|¯ " what you want to do is either lightly wet sand or polish it down (called feathering) so you have an edge more like this - " _/ ¯ " (actually more of an angle). The less of a sharp edge the better it will hide and blend come time for the clear top coat. But be careful when feathering that you don't over sand and go through either of the coats or ruin your cleanly defined line. But it doesn't take much either just to knock the sharp edge off the top coat, so don't be affraid to have at it.

-- Side Note --
When I was working on 1:1 auto's using lacquer paints (factory or custom) we used wet sanding and machine buffers with compounds. When using the very fine grits it would take awhile before any problems would happen (like burn through a layer). Just keep an eye on what you are doing and use a light touch.

Good luck, have fun and let us know how you make out. Wink [;)]


-- Jim --
"Put the pedal down & shake the ground!"

  • Member since
    December 2004
Posted by vfxart on Monday, June 12, 2006 11:19 PM
Oh will do, thanks... will try to get some photos along the way between here and complete.

I guess my last bug on this is to ask... any harm or foul if (as I'm just not decided yet) if I decide that the bits of 'mottled finish' are too much for me, any harm in sanding (to smooth, not to remove) to a slightly duller or flat finish (does it have to be uniform?!) then building the sheen back up with polish, then proceeding to color 2?

One way to find out I suppose...

Many thanks yet again, images before long!



  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: White Mountains, NH
Posted by jhande on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 5:09 AM
There is no problem in wet sanding to knock down some of the high spots (duller finish) and then use the polishing step. Actually that would be the best or quickest process.

But it is usually prefered to get an even dull finish with no shiny spiderweb like patterns. That way you would be guaranteed of a flat smooth surface.  But there is also a point to say "hey - enough is enough it looks good" LOL.

Glad to help.  Wink [;)]

-- Jim --
"Put the pedal down & shake the ground!"

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