Paint and thinner for airbrushing - how do you do it?

I highly recommend one of those small battery-powered paint mixers. I've got one made by Badger, but Micro Mark also makes one. They can make the difference between night and day.

jhande wrote:

I know the wife would be happy, not having all those smells in the house LOL.

My wife said the same thing. She doesn't like the smell of the paints, either.

Oh, you meant the paints.... oh.... wait, I misunderstood.

Thanks again guys

With all this info seems like you're going to have me make the transition from enamels to acrylics as smooth as possible. 

I really appreciate the help. 

tho9900 wrote:

Jim - if the airbrush mediums work as I feel they are so far then you wouldn't even need the Vallejo thinner... just the medium and the retarder, and those come in bigger bottles so would be more cost effective.

So far, I can't tell any difference in Vallejo's thinner and Goldens Airbrush Medium. They even look the same and feel the same.

Someone like Tom is going to be better at spotting the details of the difference, but I've tried thinning with 100% Goldens, then 100% Vallejo, and then a little of one or the other and some distilled water.  I can't say the exact amounts.. (see top of thread for my measuring system! LOL)

Seems like the Goldens was somewhere in the $13-$15 range for 473ml, and Vallejo thinner is $3.60 for 32ml, so that's a plus also.

This tip about Goldens orignated with MusicCity (Scott).. either on his website or somewhere in a post here. I had gotten it based on his info, so great tip, Scott!!

Jim - if the airbrush mediums work as I feel they are so far then you wouldn't even need the Vallejo thinner... just the medium and the retarder, and those come in bigger bottles so would be more cost effective.

I plan on trying them on a 1/72 Bf-109 I am about to start painting on.  It wouldn't be a big loss if it doesn't work out, especially because I got it for 3 dollars at the hobby Lobby 50% off sale last time..

Oh yeah.. speaking of correct formulas... the Vallejo and other branded come in plastic squeeze bottles with an eyedropper style head.  you just put in 1 drop of thinner for every 3 drops of paint and it paints good every time!!!  the only time I've varied is doing things like Luftwaffe mottle... I add a drop of distilled water for every 10 of paint along with the thinner in the usual ratio.

there is no paint loss with Vallejo which is one thing I like a lot!

Thanks Jack & Tom for all the great info. 

With my memory, I'm going to have to print all this stuff out LOL.

You guys make it sound less scary giving acrylics a try, especially with the correct formula's to use.

So Vallejo Model Air paint and Vallejo thinner/retarder is what I need to start with. 

BUT... I shall wait to hear about Liquitex and Golden.

Thanks again!

Jim - Jack pretty much summed it up.  If you try out Vallejo use their "thinner", Model Air is pre-thinned for airbrushing but their thinner is actually a retarded and adhesion agent all in one.  It's about $4 for a bottle but I've used one as much as a year before it was running out, and Vallejo is ALL I use if I can help it.  You'd have to order it from coloradominiatures.com or spruebrothers.com because although color of Eagles has the Vallejo made paint they don't carry the "thinner"... 

MM Acryl is good if you can find it locally, I still recommend trying the Vallejo though.  MM can be thinned with their own thinner, or Tamiya acrylic thinner.   You can't thin Vallejo with either of those.  vallejo is a water based versus solvent based acrylic.  It "curdles: when you put anything like the MM or Tamiya thinner in it.

On retarders, Liquitex and golden both make a retarder that works well with Vallejo, just a drop will do it!  They also both make airbrush mediums that are flow aids and look and work suspiciously like the Vallejo "thinner"... Jack got me thinking in an email on the subject so I am testing out the theory and will post what I think on their airbrush mediums instead of Vallejo branded stuff.  Back to the retarder, whatever brand of acrylic you settle with the retarded will work.. so it won't hurt to get some.  Some needle lube or glycerin from the pharmacy (I found it at Walgreens in the cospetic section) work well for it.  It helps precent the acrylic from sticking to the tip as well as making it a little smoother int he action when you pull back on the trigger.

There is still a small amount of tip dry with Vallejo, less with their thinner... all I do is when the spray pattern starts changing I just give it a quick spurt with the trigger pulled back pretty far and it clears it.  I also try to keep a qtip with water on it nearby for stubborn spots...

Good luck to you and don't be afraid to ask questions!!  There's actually more than a few here who either use Vallejo full time or at least use it so there'll be plenty of people to answer!

-edit-

you can pick up the Goldens and Liquitex products at somewhere like Hobby Lobby or Michaels where the tube acrylics are...

I'll try and get an answer started, but I'm the rookie on this. Tom's the teacher. He's got some great experience with this stuff.

Vallejo Model Air would be a great one to start with and you just might stick. Aside from Vallejo's 'Mixing Fluid' (thinner), all you need is distilled water. NOT alchohol or any of the other stuff. I like Vallejo's thinner either in place of distilled water or either along with it, because it has a retarder built in and to me just seems to spray a tad better.

Tip dry that you hear so much about with acrylics is much less of a problem with Model Air than any I've used. Especially with their thinner, but very very little even with just dist water.

My best luck with acrylic other than Model Air was Gunze. That's a good one, too. Good color selection and not hard to use, but not as fine and smooth as Model Air for me.

I hear Model Master Acryl is a good one too. But if you go that route, from what I've heard, it does best with their thinner.. MM ACRYL Thinner.

Take over this thread? Lol.. How would you do that? It's been more places than Gulliver.

Hopefully Tom will show up and offer some of those good words that come from more experience.

"Nothing goes right when your underwear is tight!" Lol.. sounds like Indian underwear to me.

Thanks Jack & Tom 

So Vallejo brand should be my first choice, if not at least try MM acrylic if my LHS has a few bottles. Humm... maybe not, shelf life... I'll have to order them too probably, have to shake a bottle and see LOL.

So Vallejo Model Air is the best for both, spraying and brushing. Also known as: "Color of Eagles - Aircraft Colors" and "Aeromaster from USA". Wonder why my wholesaler doesn't show them listed... buggers

So I take it then Model Air doesn't need thinning but MM acrylic does (for spraying and/or brushing)?

Can the Tamiya thinner be used with Model Air if I ever need to thin it?
And then there's the issue of retarder, what brand if I'm going to switch brands of paint or maybe I won't need it?

Dang, sorry for all the questions and about taking over this thread...

"Nothing goes right when your underwear is tight!" 

Another great source for Model Air is spruebrothers.com. They are MUCH cheaper ($2.69) than Great Models ($2.70).

I don't know why anyone would spend all the extra money. You can buy 270 bottles at Sprue for what you'd pay for 269 at the other place.

Seriously.. great place to get all kinds of stuff. And he STOCKS everything you see on the site, and it ships very very fast and reliably. In almost three years of buying from Gordon, not ONE delay or messed up order. Unbelievable.

jmathewstn wrote:

Sitting here LMAO at all these comments.. makes me feel like I outta be able to add some snappy something, but it's become too much of a strain so I'll have to pass.

That's what the prune juice is for…

Bgrigg wrote:

With friends like these, you don't need enemas!

Potty mouth!! 

I ditto the Vallejo Model Air or "Aircraft Colors" by Color of Eagles (also made by Vallejo and packaged under a Miami Co.'s name)

The finest pigments, they adhere well to the plastic and spray like a charm.  The best part is you can brush paint with them well too... My inventory is almost 100% Vallejo products now.  You can get the Aircraft Colors at both www.greatmodels.com or www.squadron.com, at greatmodels just search for "color of eagles" and the entire line will come up and at squadron look under "Paints and Thnners" then Aeromaster and they will be there.

If you're looking for something more locally available to stick the proverbial toe in to check it out, MM Acryl is a good second choice, doesn't spray quite as easy as the Vallejo but it really is easier than Tamiya in my opinion for starting out.  You don't have to custom mix colors like Tamiya does.  Use MM Acryl with the Tamiya thinner and you'll be a master in no time!  P.S. get the big 250ml bottle of Tamiya thinner, it's only about $1 more than the 30ml bottle so it's more cost effective.

Let us know if you have any questions! 

Sitting here LMAO at all these comments.. makes me feel like I outta be able to add some snappy something, but it's become too much of a strain so I'll have to pass.

Jim, unless you've already got a plan for trying acrylics, consider giving Model Air a shot..

After some time using acrylic paint with some success, I had decided to start switching back to enamel because that's what I grew up with and it was always pretty straight-forward. And I finally built a big enough paint booth that's efficient enough to handle all the odors so why not?

Then I ran into Tom and he explained the virtues of Model Air and gave me some help, and now I'm a huge fan. Best I've seen.

Finer'n snuff and not near as dusty!

Triarius wrote:

Bgrigg wrote: With friends like these, you don't need enemas! Stop making prunish remarks. People will think you are uptight. I suggest you evacuate immediately…

I'm flushed with shame...

Bgrigg wrote:

With friends like these, you don't need enemas!

Stop making prunish remarks. People will think you are uptight. I suggest you evacuate immediately…

With friends like these, you don't need enemas!

tho9900 wrote:

Jim - if you decide to try the acrylics, even if just with your son, you have a lot of us here who made the switch long ago and never look back!  Yeah there's a few idiosynchrosies, but like my Aunt Agnes' hairy mole... you stop noticing it after awhile..    I guess what I am saying is a lot of the issues you hear about are really non-issues once you learn to work with it...

Thanks Tom, I've learned alot here regarding acrylics and think I'm armed with enough to get started. Well, at least enough to make a mess hehe.

....  of course age also brings wisdom, and respirators and spray booths!  I can't afford to lose more than 1 or 2 more brain cells or I'll be heading for the nursing home.

Oh oh, me thinks I lost those 1 or 2 too many brain cells long ago.
"With age brings wisdom, respirators, and spray booths?"
 WOW, I'm missing something here. All I ended up with was saggy muscles, more belly, hair changing to primer color, less s_x, harder to see, bones that crunch whenever I move, ... oh heck, this is getting depressing.

Ross - "Price check on prune juice, Bob. Price check on prune juice…"

Tom  - "I think it's on aisle 7 next to the Geritol.."

Ross - "…I think it was moved to aisle 3, near the Depends…"

I found the prune juice, it's $2.97 a Qt in aisle 2 three steps down from the enema's. 

tho9900 wrote:

Triarius wrote: "Price check on prune juice, Bob. Price check on prune juice…" Ayep! I think it's on aisle 7 next to the Geritol..

…I think it was moved to aisle 3, near the Depends…

Triarius wrote:

"Price check on prune juice, Bob. Price check on prune juice…" Ayep!

I think it's on aisle 7 next to the Geritol.. 

tho9900 wrote:

I can't afford to lose more than 1 or 2 more brain cells or I'll be heading for the nursing home.

"Price check on prune juice, Bob. Price check on prune juice…"

Ayep!

oh yeah Jack and Jim... I still keep a box of straight edge razors in the desk... those things are the heavy equipment of modeling!   Nothing can stand up to them!

Jim - if you decide to try the acrylics, even if just with your son, you have a lot of us here who made the switch long ago and never look back!  Yeah there's a few idiosynchrosies, but like my Aunt Agnes' hairy mole... you stop noticing it after awhile..   

I guess what I am saying is a lot of the issues you hear about are really non-issues once you learn to work with it...

Although I have to agree with you... I seem the remember the "enamel/lacquer haze" after a long paint session.. I even remember spraying an entire 1/72 B-36 inside my apartment with Testors Silver when I was like 20... I think that headache lasted a few months....  of course age also brings wisdom, and respirators and spray booths!  I can't afford to lose more than 1 or 2 more brain cells or I'll be heading for the nursing home.

Thanks, Jim! Kind words and I appreciate it. I've been reading here for a good while but not piping up too much.

Single edge razors and needle nose pliers, huh? Sounds like some of my old hobby tools! I'm using some newer stuff now, too, but the old stuff is still around. In fact, I'm sure I'll always have a bulk box of single edge blades around. And old dental tools and needle-point and beading tools given to me by various friends/relatives when they were upgrading THEIR tools.. it all works.

Legend -- the Al thing has always cracked me up too! I work with a guy who always seems to make reference to it and so it's never far away.

Lol Al inventing the internet.  I love that quote still makes me laugh everytime I read it.

It's certainly nice to have you here Jack.

I too am kind of set in my ways and wonder why. I started modeling back in the 60's using Testors stinky cement and oil paints. I kind of got the process down fairly decent and just can't seem to think of modeling the same if I switch to arcylics.

I know the wife would be happy, not having all those smells in the house LOL.
But then where does that leave me? That became part of my modeling, a slight buzz followed by a headache.
My son would like to give it a try, I think he should as he gets more paint on other things than he does the model. So I'll see how spraying plastic on plastic goes hehe.
I've traded my single edge razor blade in for a hobby knife. I switched from my Blue Point air drill to a pin vise, I'm using tweezer now instead of my needle nose pliers, the wifes old cuticle cutters works better at cutting parts from the sprue than my air chisel ever did. So I'm changing some of my ways of doing things.
I'm not trading in my automotive supplies for modeling brands though. I'm sticking to my guns on that!!!

I agree and I certainly wasn't trying to degrade anyones procedure. I apologize if I came across as doing so. I was merely trying to pass on a bit of info (whether totally correct and valid I don't know) in hopes it might be helpful.

No apology needed and I don't feel my wierd ways were denegraded at all! Amazingly! Lol!

I'm sure, like a lot of text that gets written and read here, my meaning was unclear but I was just confirming that I didn't hold my way up as being the right or even the best way to do that.. just the way that worked for me.

Actually, your comments and this thread has gotten me wondering why I do it the way I do, which happens a lot to me and is always healthy. I doubt I'll change, even though I try sometimes, but it is fun to think about how old habits started. Part of it was not always being close enough to an active club or group, part was modeling before Al invented the internet. As a matter of fact, I think a lot of my problems are his fault.

But, it's all fun and I'm just happy to be here!

jmathewstn wrote:

Great info!! And I agree with all of it. I just got used to doing it another way and I'm accustomed to it. I got used to looking at parts and remembering 'about' how much paint it might take. If I think the cup on top of the AB is enough, I mix up the paint, strain if neccessary, put some thinner in the AB, pour my guesstimate of paint on top, stir a little and shoot. If I think I'm going to need more than the cup will hold, I do all the above in a seperate bottle, adding thinner, then pour it into the AB as needed.

While I was painting cars, I was guilty of many shortcuts from time to time because I knew they would work and my guesstimates were close enough too. Like when I only had to spray a fender or door, I'd sometimes mix right in the paint cup. 

But you're doing exactly the right thing because (I would imagine) you're used to it and that's the way you feel comfortable doing it. Same for me. Could be that only crazy people do it the way I do it , or maybe I'm the only one.. who knows! But it works for me and it's kind of automatic and I have no problems.

You're correct Jack, I am more accustomed to pre-mixing in a separate bottle. Hey, I have my quirks and moments too, just ask my wife & kids or anyone that knows me...

If Pat had asked "What is the CORRECT way to do (whatever)?".. that's different.. I'm not sure I ever know. But I do know how 'I' do it, and that's all I was answering. Such as it was.

I agree and I certainly wasn't trying to degrade anyones procedure. I apologize if I came across as doing so. I was merely trying to pass on a bit of info (whether totally correct and valid I don't know) in hopes it might be helpful. 

jhande wrote:

"Whatever I put in the cup first, will have the tendency to start dripping down into the AB body cavity. So how will I get a properly consistently mixed paint/thinner ratio when there is a small glob of paint or thinner already loaded waiting to be sprayed? Especially if I have to mix a little more? Doesn't the words gravity-feed mean anything? It doesn't take the air pressure to cause it to start, gravity is all around us." Ok, so I felt stupid!  I was only used to painting with suction-feed, what do I know.  I have always used the same technique when painting cars, mix paint in a separate container, pour through filter into paint cup. Same thing with my bottom feed AB. Only makes sence to do it for a top feed also. Easier to mix paint/thinner ratio, at least for me, so it will be more consistant. Can mix a larger amount as needed ahead of time. Thinned paint is easier/faster to flow through a filter than straight paint. So it's one extra step and an extra bottle to clean. I think it's worth it, but what do I know.

Great info!! And I agree with all of it. I just got used to doing it another way and I'm accustomed to it.

I got used to looking at parts and remembering 'about' how much paint it might take. If I think the cup on top of the AB is enough, I mix up the paint, strain if neccessary, put some thinner in the AB, pour my guesstimate of paint on top, stir a little and shoot. If I think I'm going to need more than the cup will hold, I do all the above in a seperate bottle, adding thinner, then pour it into the AB as needed.

But you're doing exactly the right thing because (I would imagine) you're used to it and that's the way you feel comfortable doing it. Same for me. Could be that only crazy people do it the way I do it , or maybe I'm the only one.. who knows! But it works for me and it's kind of automatic and I have no problems.

If Pat had asked "What is the CORRECT way to do (whatever)?".. that's different.. I'm not sure I ever know. But I do know how 'I' do it, and that's all I was answering. Such as it was.