acrylics hard to clean color cup

Don't use alcohol to thin ModelMaster acrylics—it's incompatible with the binder. You also don't state what alcohol  you are using with the Tamiya paints—it should be isopropyl. Incompatible solvents, or those marginally so, can cause the problem you relate—and make the paint an absolute puppy mother to remove.

To clean the acrylics, try Windex or Simple Green, and clean immediately after you finish painting.

Some use lacquer thinner to clean out acrylics, but as some brands are incompatible with them, I hesitate to do so except as a last resort.

Thanks for the reply, Ross.

I'm confused as to what to use to thin the MM acrylics ... since they are water based I thought alcohol (yes - I use isopropyl - 70%) would be the best choice. What should I be using instead? Mineral spirits? I hope you don't say lacquer thinner as I was hoping to keep the whole process as non toxic as possible.

Yet - you mention that Tamiya does do well with iso alcohol ... odd but I guess that is just the difference in the chemistry of the 2 brands?

Thanks for the tips on Windex and Simple Green. :)

Dodge

A couple quick squirts with Windex will do the trick.  The amonia in the windex disolves acrylic like you wouldn't believe.  Run some of that through the airbrush as well, and use it to clean the airbrush parts.  Works like a champ! 

MM Acryl is "supposed" to be airbrush worthy out of the bottle. Have you tried NOT thinning? MM Acryl is water based so you can use, that's right! Water!! Tamiya is alcohol based, so isopropyl works great there. CAUTION isopropyl alchol dries really fast, tends to flatten out gloss paints and causes "tip dry". A good acrylic retarder (Liquidtex or Createx) is recommended. Tamiya Thinner is pre-mixed with retarder.

I would step up to 90 or 99% pure isopropyl rather than the 70% as you don't know what the regional bottler is diluting it with. Okay, they use water, but is it hard water or soft? Hard water can leave calcium deposits inside your airbrush. You don't want that. Really, you don't. I've also heard of people using Future to thin with, I've never tried that.

Windex will get off most UNCURED acrylic paints. Windex has ammonia which helps, but it is almost one third isopropyl alcohol (that's why it dries streak free!). When Windex doesn't cut it, use the isopropyl straight out of the bottle.

I've heard that MM Acryl is more difficult to clean than Tamiya. Are you experiencing more trouble with one brand or the other? You also don't mention if the Revolution you use is siphon or gravity fed. I'm assuming gravity fed. I would be worried that if the cleaner isn't getting it out of the cup, it's not getting it out of the nozzle either. Perhaps it is, though. Cups are exposed to air, where nozzles stay "wet", and that could well be the difference.

Thanks, Bill!

I've found that at least for Tamiya, PollyScale, ModelMaster, and artists' acrylic, anything Windex won't get off, Simple Green (50% dilution to full strength) will if you soak it for ten minutes—works better than straight isopropyl 90%.

BTW: you can use small amounts of distilled or deionized water as a cosolvent with 90+% isopropyl to slow drying, but you need a slight increase in spraying pressure to go with it.

Triarius wrote:

Thanks, Bill! I've found that at least for Tamiya, PollyScale, ModelMaster, and artists' acrylic, anything Windex won't get off, Simple Green (50% dilution to full strength) will if you soak it for ten minutes—works better than straight isopropyl 90%. BTW: you can use small amounts of distilled or deionized water as a cosolvent with 90+% isopropyl to slow drying, but you need a slight increase in spraying pressure to go with it.

LOL no problem, I've "borrowed" most of my information from you anyway! I haven't tried Simple Green, I'll have to look for it. My poor wife keeps getting her hopes up! I come home with big bottles of Windex and Future, and have done nary a window or cleaned the floor!

MM is definitely harder to cut with a solvent than others.  I have the same prob with MM Acryls and other acrylics to a lesser degree with both my Revolution and Eclipse on occasion..  what happens is where the meniscus of paint is, it dries along the cup leaving a ring of hardened paint... I've never had problems anywhere else in the brush though.  The Windex and other solvents mentioned should work just fine for cleaning that out.  I usually wet a qtip with windex and rub at the ring and the pieces will start flaking off.

You should have no prob thinning MM Acryl with Tamiya thinner, it has a retarder as well as the alchohol type solvent in it.  MM Acryl has glycol ether in it, it's an ethanol compound so maybe the iso and the ethanol aren't playing well?  (just a wild guess) I believe Tamiya acrylic thinner uses the same base for it's solvent, I'm almost certain the MM Acryl thinner does. I've been using it for yrs with great results though.  The 250ml bottle is only about $5 and last forever...

Ethanol and isopropyl are miscible, although they are not necessarily compatible with the same polymers.

If MM acrylics use a glycolated ether in the solvent blend, it is likely that one or more components of the binder are not compatible with isopropyl or ethyl alcohol. There are more glycolated ethers, IIRC, than all of us together can shake stirring sticks at, and all of them have different properties.

Organic solvents generally behave in one of four ways when mixed:

1. They mix in perfect harmony.
2. They don't mix, period.
3. They mix grudgingly.
4. They react to form new components.

Miscibility with water is related to the polarity of the solvent molecule, or part of it. In very general terms, the more polar the organic solvent, the more likely it will mix with water, and……… HERE THERE BE DRAGONS!!!! AND IF YOU GET PAST THEM, YOU'LL FALL OFF THE EDGE OF THE EARTH!!! Unless, of course, you are an organic chemist, a mage of incomprehensible knowledge. Not being one, I won't go there…

Triarius wrote:

YOU'LL FALL OFF THE EDGE OF THE EARTH!!!

 

I did that once.... ONCE! 

 

 

Thanks everyone! :)

I find that Windex does do a better job of clean up with the stubborn paint cling (tho9900 - you describe the exact issue I'm having).

I tried MM without thinning and it seemed (at first) to work well - but closer inspection revealed a slight "bumpy" texture I had to wet sand off. Of course I'm very new at airbrushing so that could have been due to some other rookie mistake.

I'll try again with the Tamiya thinner.

Thanks for all the advice!

Dodge

I thin Tamiya Acrylics exclusively with Tamiya thinner, works fantastic!  I've also been able to clean CURED Tamiya Acrylic using Windex.  It just required a bit more spritzing, and a gentle wipe and rinse.

espins1 wrote:

I thin Tamiya Acrylics exclusively with Tamiya thinner, works fantastic!  I've also been able to clean CURED Tamiya Acrylic using Windex.  It just required a bit more spritzing, and a gentle wipe and rinse.

Really? Maybe I didn't try hard enough. Will try again...

tho9900 wrote:

Triarius wrote: YOU'LL FALL OFF THE EDGE OF THE EARTH!!!    I did that once.... ONCE!

That's how I ended up here! 

Bgrigg wrote:

espins1 wrote: I thin Tamiya Acrylics exclusively with Tamiya thinner, works fantastic!  I've also been able to clean CURED Tamiya Acrylic using Windex.  It just required a bit more spritzing, and a gentle wipe and rinse. Really? Maybe I didn't try hard enough. Will try again...

Bill,

Let it soak ten minutes, then scrub gently with an old toothbrush. If ten minutes isn't enough, give it ten more. Most of it should rinse off.

Bgrigg wrote:

tho9900 wrote:  Triarius wrote: YOU'LL FALL OFF THE EDGE OF THE EARTH!!!    I did that once.... ONCE!  That's how I ended up here!

"Please pass the ketchup," said the dragon…

Ya, I had some "texture" issues on my FW190 prop and Helldiver prop.  I simply nuked them with Windex, then gently rinsed them under the tap with my fingers, spritzed some more let it soak for a bit, rinse and repeat. 

espins1 wrote:

Ya, I had some "texture" issues on my FW190 prop and Helldiver prop.

Any idea what you might have done "wrong" to cause the texture issue? Is it a pressure issue or thick paint?

Thanks
Dodge

Dodge wrote:

espins1 wrote: Ya, I had some "texture" issues on my FW190 prop and Helldiver prop.  Any idea what you might have done "wrong" to cause the texture issue? Is it a pressure issue or thick paint? Thanks Dodge

Well, it's been an ongoing problem with my airbrush/compressor set up.... but only when I use a siphon feed jar.  I have to crank the pressure up very high just to get paint to flow.  I've recently purchased an open cup that requires much less pressure, so the problem went away by default.  So... basically I believe the problem was too much air pressure.

hmmm ... I have the open syphon cup and running about 60psi. The only time it did the "bumps" thing was with the un-thinned MM. I just tried it again having thinned the MM with water and it sprayed smooth ...

You only conclusion I can come to at this time is that I have a lot to learn! ;)

Thanks so much for your help!

Dodge

60psi?  Which airbrush do you have?  I normally shot about 18 - 25psi with my two siphon fed Badgers, a little more or a little less as the situation required...   It might be the pressure you're spraying at causing it.. Try bringing it down to about 25psi with thinner (if possible) paint and try it out.  With my 2 gravity feeds now I shoot more at 10 - 20 psi...

Now is a good time to invest in a 69 cent gallon jug of distilled water (which you'll need to purge your airbrush after cleaning it with Windex anyway) .. practice spraying on the jug at different pressures and see how it works.. usually it is better if you get some Krylon primer and prime the jug...

I still use mine all the time, everytime I come up on something I haven't tried before I re-primer it and go to town till I've got the knack of it!  It will help you more with your airbrushing than you will ever believe...

-edit- I forgot you said you had the Revolution... with my gravity fed Revolution, I normally spray large surfaces at about 16 to 20psi... try backing down on your pressure to that or somewhere near that... with thinned acrylic it should shoot fine... you want the acrylic to be wet when it hits the model.   let us know how that goes!!!  Later when you try smaller detail you should try going down below 15psi, I paint Luftwaffe mottle at about 5ish psi, and 10psi will produce some mighty fine lines!!!

And again, that water jug is a life saver!!!  If you mess it up, primer and reshoot!

Thanks Gentlemen, that was some good informative reading there. I don't do alot of acryl stuff but I sure learned alot about it...thank you.......

Ah ... I'll try the reduced pressure - thanks! And thanks for the tip about the jug - I'm going to set that up and use it now!

Thanks to all for the great advice :)

Dodge