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The chore that is painting

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  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Friday, August 11, 2006 1:06 AM
Ah, sorry, I figured you must know if you did figures, newbie technique or not! Better safe than sorry!

So long folks!

  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by Agamemnon on Friday, August 11, 2006 12:05 AM

I do know what drybrushing is. It's just that in the miniatures wargaming circles I frequent, it's scoffed at as being a "newbie technique". Experts in that art do wet-blending and layered highlights instead. Indeed, the ultimate expression of that is the technique of NMM (non-metallic metal), the simulation of reflective metal surfaces with skillful use of color gradients.

Several of my drybrushes are useless from being used in various un-brush-like roles, like spreading white glue. One of them looks like an afro on a stick. I still have one "tank brush", which is a big stiff brush that's decent for spreading a lot of drybrushing over big areas. I do need to get some higher-quality ones in the future, especially in the larger sizes.

Look at these people, these human beings; consider their potential! From the day they arrive on the planet, blinking, step into the sun, there is more to see than can ever be seen, more to do than... no, hold on. Sorry, that's The Lion King. But, the point still stands... leave them alone! -- The Tenth Doctor
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:06 PM
 Agamemnon wrote:

Plus some Citadel drybrushes (I'm not sure what they use for hair, but it's rigid enough to be used for a stabbing weapon).



Do NOT get rid of the drybrushes! If they are what I think they are they would be excellent for a technique know as, well dry brushing. A stiff bristle is required. Basically you use a contrasting color to highlight details. As I'm primarily a WWII aircraft builder I use the dry brushing with silver pick out details on things like instrument panels. Dry brushing consists of loading the brush with color, wiping most of it off by brushing the paint against a paper towel, and then dusting the color on the high points of the model. Here are some links to illustrate what I mean.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/tnt1/001-100/TnT087_Drybrushing_Bamford/TnT087.htm
http://www.miniaturewargaming.com/index.php/mwg/comments/drybrushing_techniques/
http://miniatures.de/html/int/trockenbuersten.html

Cheers!

Bill

So long folks!

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Thursday, August 10, 2006 5:41 PM
The brushes make the paint job... I have mostly Red Sable with a few Golden Taklon brushes thrown in here and there... The good red sables not only last forever but put on a nice even coat of paint.  some of the cheaper brushes I used to buy were more like using a broom to push paint in front of the brush but most of it never ended up on the body...
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by Agamemnon on Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:19 PM
I'm not keen on the idea of having to start a third range of paints. I already started throwing Citadel crap out in favor of Vallejos, now I'd have to turn around and replace all the new stuff? I'd be lying if I said the idea had any attraction whatsoever.

I suppose I'll try with reducing the amount of water in the mix and doing less coats, in case it saves me from re-buying basic grays, browns and greens for the third time.
Look at these people, these human beings; consider their potential! From the day they arrive on the planet, blinking, step into the sun, there is more to see than can ever be seen, more to do than... no, hold on. Sorry, that's The Lion King. But, the point still stands... leave them alone! -- The Tenth Doctor
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Bicester, England
Posted by KJ200 on Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:38 AM

You should be able to get Gunze acrylics in Europe, after the place I buy mine from in the UK, sources their stock from Germany.

Failing that try the link below to MDC where I buy mine.

http://www.shopcreator.net/mall/modeldesignconstruction/

They ship to the rest of the EU.

Karl

 

Currently on the bench: AZ Models 1/72 Mig 17PF

  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by Agamemnon on Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:07 AM

It's true that they're a bit hard to get properly mixed up. I was been thinking just sticking a ball bearing or something similar into the bottle to help, but someone helpfully pointed out that it would just block the nozzle every time you turned the bottle upside down.

I also need to get some more high-quality brushes. Some of my current ones are dollar-store quality. Plus some Citadel drybrushes (I'm not sure what they use for hair, but it's rigid enough to be used for a stabbing weapon).

Look at these people, these human beings; consider their potential! From the day they arrive on the planet, blinking, step into the sun, there is more to see than can ever be seen, more to do than... no, hold on. Sorry, that's The Lion King. But, the point still stands... leave them alone! -- The Tenth Doctor
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 6:54 PM

If your Vallejo is doing that it may not be mixed well.  When I mix mine I shake for a good minute or two, take the bottle in your hand by the neck and tap the bottom against the heel of your hand or the side of your leg while shaking.  I use my Model Air for brush painting all the time with no problems and it is thinner than Model Color or Game Color...

If the bottle is new or hasn't been used for awhile shake it a little long to make sure you get it mixed well.  you might even try taking the dropper top off the first time you mix and get a long rod and mix them around a bit before shaking..

Good luck!!!

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 3:21 PM
I'd stick with the Vallejo over the Humbrol, though you may want to try the Humbrol Enamels. I've brushed painted Tamiya Acrylics pretty well, which I'm told is supposed to be impossible. Brush painting is possible, but you have to make sure you have really good brushes. I have some red sable brushes that are from Germany, the brand name is Leonhardy Rein Rotmarder, and they are excellent (and expensive!) brushes. They come with black triangular handles. I would try using the Vallejo straight out of the bottle, maybe a touch of thinner, and don't try to paint too much at any given time.

So long folks!

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 2:57 PM
 Agamemnon wrote:

I assume other brands have wildly different properties and there are no generic rules.



That's about it…Chaos—there's nothing theoretical about it! Mischief [:-,]

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by Agamemnon on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 2:52 PM
In acrylics, Vallejo is probably the only easily-available one (not counting Citadel, which is abysmal). As for enamels, there's Humbrol and some other one I can't remember. Those are the easily-available ones, speciality dealers might have something more esoteric
Look at these people, these human beings; consider their potential! From the day they arrive on the planet, blinking, step into the sun, there is more to see than can ever be seen, more to do than... no, hold on. Sorry, that's The Lion King. But, the point still stands... leave them alone! -- The Tenth Doctor
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 2:46 PM
What paints are available? Knowing you're in Finland helps us help you, thanks for adding that bit of information.

So long folks!

  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by Agamemnon on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 2:34 PM
Availability is an issue. I know Tamiya makes spray cans of useful shades like panzergrau and dunkelgelb, but to my knowledge, the import of Tamiya paints into Finland has been terminated indefinitely.
Look at these people, these human beings; consider their potential! From the day they arrive on the planet, blinking, step into the sun, there is more to see than can ever be seen, more to do than... no, hold on. Sorry, that's The Lion King. But, the point still stands... leave them alone! -- The Tenth Doctor
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 2:29 PM
If airbrushing is too costly at this point, why not use spray cans, especially if you are going to single or 2 color finishes. Paint the small details by hand. You're not going to get the same finish as an airbrush, but you'll come pretty close with a little pratice.
  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by Agamemnon on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 2:28 PM

 Triarius wrote:
Don't thin the paint unless it is drying too fast—painting in more humid conditions helps (turn off the air conditioning or get a room humidifier). Try adding small amounts of acrylic retarder to your unthinned paint.

Okay, this is obviously one of those things that does not translate from my 28mm wargaming/figures painting experience at all. IIRC, 1:1 is recommended as the MINIMUM dilution rate for Vallejo acrylics for figures, and I've always used it. Indeed, it's far too thick to be painted straight out of the bottle, approximately finger-paint consistency.

I assume other brands have wildly different properties and there are no generic rules.

Look at these people, these human beings; consider their potential! From the day they arrive on the planet, blinking, step into the sun, there is more to see than can ever be seen, more to do than... no, hold on. Sorry, that's The Lion King. But, the point still stands... leave them alone! -- The Tenth Doctor
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 1:58 PM
 Agamemnon wrote:
I've tried several coats of thinned paint, which is what I've always been told is the "correct" approach, but all I'm getting is an uneven, streaky surface with paint pooling into every crevice and raised detail.


¿Que?…

Say WHAT?

Don't thin the paint unless it is drying too fast—painting in more humid conditions helps (turn off the air conditioning or get a room humidifier). Try adding small amounts of acrylic retarder to your unthinned paint.

If the brush marks are not flowing out, the paint may need a little thinning (retarder is a better approach, IMHO). Little meaning not more than 5%—usually just a few drops per 5 ml. or so.

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 12:55 PM
Ah, you're in Europe! That changes things quite a bit. Though do contact Dixie Art and request a shipping quote to your location. It may be cheaper to send from the US than buy locally!

MusicCity's suggestion of comressed air is an excellent one, and is absolutely quiet.

So long folks!

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: USA
Posted by MusicCity on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 12:42 PM
Instead of a compressor why not take a look at carbon dioxide or nitrogen?  They are completely silent and a tank would probably last a year or so before it needs refilling again.
Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page
  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by Agamemnon on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 12:39 PM

Oh, decals are easy. I've not had appreciable problems with them, just the occasional speck of dust trapped between film and glosscoat, and the matte varnish I apply afterwards not quite killing the shine.

The cheapest airbrush deal I know of locally is approximately 120 euro, for what's probably not a very nice brush at all, and a compressor that I'm sure would wake up the neighbors with its infernal racket. Still, I suppose I gotta ask the locals if they can give me a few pointers. Even something crude that I could use for spreading an overall coat of panzer grey would be a pretty good start. And once I'd have a compressor at my disposal, getting a better brush would be possible at any time.

Look at these people, these human beings; consider their potential! From the day they arrive on the planet, blinking, step into the sun, there is more to see than can ever be seen, more to do than... no, hold on. Sorry, that's The Lion King. But, the point still stands... leave them alone! -- The Tenth Doctor
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 11:49 AM
There is a cure! Save up and buy an airbrush. You can pickup a really good Badger or Paasche single action for under $40 at Dixie Art, and Harbor Freight sells half decent compressors for $50 to $80. Then you can build up the models, paint them with nice, smooth finishes and, if you anything like me, stall at the decal stage. Man I HATE decalling! Wink [;)]

So long folks!

  • Member since
    January 2006
The chore that is painting
Posted by Agamemnon on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 11:29 AM

Making kits is great. There's the sight of seeing something take shape, and the excitement of completing something that takes patience and effort.

Painting kits is turning out to be living hell. I'm sick and tired of fighting with my tools (Vallejo acrylics and brushes). At this point, I can't even get a proper solid color basecoat onto the surface of a kit despite hours of trying, something you could do in 10 seconds with an airbrush. I've tried several coats of thinned paint, which is what I've always been told is the "correct" approach, but all I'm getting is an uneven, streaky surface with paint pooling into every crevice and raised detail.

At this point, I am royally sick of the entire thing, which leaves me with a dilemma, in that I love assembling models, but when they're done, I want nothing to do with the painting thereof.

Needless to say, I'm at the start of a pretty big downer.

Look at these people, these human beings; consider their potential! From the day they arrive on the planet, blinking, step into the sun, there is more to see than can ever be seen, more to do than... no, hold on. Sorry, that's The Lion King. But, the point still stands... leave them alone! -- The Tenth Doctor
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