Tamiya Flat

Bgrigg wrote:

Way to go Scott, finally made it to page 3!

muwahahahahaaaaa... It's all part of my evil plan to take over the world!!! 

Gun Tech wrote:

Ok, just doing my part to take this tread to page 3   Hey Scott, when you use your mix Future and Tamiya Flat, are you airbrushing a heavy coat? Or do you just slowy build it up?

Usually I do one medium/heavy coat.  I lightly spray the hard to get at areas first.  Then start at one end or side and work my way across.  Put it sideways, spray from one end to the other etc.  until all the areas have been covered at least twice.  That usually gives me the look I'm trying for.

Ok, just doing my part to take this tread to page 3  

Hey Scott, when you use your mix Future and Tamiya Flat, are you airbrushing a heavy coat? Or do you just slowy build it up?

gulfstreamV wrote:

Tankmaster7 wrote: perhaps is can add some length as well.   as for me i alkways stick to polly scale clear flat. good stuff that.   Yeah I use the same, good stuff no problems. Tamiya Flat Base is well known as a additive to dull or flatten gloss or semi-gloss paint.        (I just wish I would of known it before I ruined a nice A-4)

Bummer man.  You'd think though that Tamiya would wake up and include decent directions on how to use it.  I'm sure many people have learned that lesson the hard way. 

so... are

Tankmaster7 wrote:

perhaps is can add some length as well.   as for me i alkways stick to polly scale clear flat. good stuff that.

(I just wish I would of known it before I ruined a nice A-4)

Bgrigg wrote:

Shellback wrote: So what is the age of an "adult modeler " ? Maybe we are not mature enough to figure out how to use it . LoL Page 3 yet ? There an age listed to the right of the flammable symbol (14+). Individual maturity levels is left to the discretion of the modelers. It would be best if we didn't ask our significent others for their opinion...

Hmmmm , i dont have to ask her , she just tells me "to grow up " !

MusicCity wrote:

Scott, it pains me to do this... Which clearly (pun intended) shows it as a paint. Ooops, my bad.  It does indeed read "Paint" on the main label. A "Base" to a paint manufacturer has a very specific meaning.  It is the vehicle into which pigments, thinners, and (sometimes) other mediums are mixed to create true "Paint".  I can see where, to a company that makes paint, labeling it as a base would be all that is necessary.

 Reading the directions certainly does not suggest anything but straight from the bottle use. "Stir slowly and very carefully before use. Allow one hour drying time before recoating...Use Tamiya Acrylic thinner (X-20A)" which, except for the designation of X-20A, are exactly the same directions as on their clear gloss and is essentially what is on the PollyScale flat, thought they suggest longer times between coats. Their website says this about hte Falt Base: "At this time, no further information is available about this product.
We are constantly updating product information, pricing, and details
so please check back later."

Shellback wrote:

So what is the age of an "adult modeler " ? Maybe we are not mature enough to figure out how to use it . LoL Page 3 yet ?

There an age listed to the right of the flammable symbol (14+). Individual maturity levels is left to the discretion of the modelers. It would be best if we didn't ask our significent others for their opinion...

So what is the age of an "adult modeler " ? Maybe we are not mature enough to figure out how to use it . LoL

Page 3 yet ?

perhaps is can add some length as well.

as for me i alkways stick to polly scale clear flat. good stuff that.  

It would have to be an infinitesimally small grid.

Just doing my bit to lengthen the thread...

I wish they would put a little grid on the label showing the ratios of mixing it to the clear for flat, eggshell, semi-gloss etc.  That would eliminate the true problem... no directions on how to use it.

p.s. oooo... almost to 3 pages! 

Scott, it pains me to do this... Which clearly (pun intended) shows it as a paint.

Ooops, my bad.  It does indeed read "Paint" on the main label.

A "Base" to a paint manufacturer has a very specific meaning.  It is the vehicle into which pigments, thinners, and (sometimes) other mediums are mixed to create true "Paint".  I can see where, to a company that makes paint, labeling it as a base would be all that is necessary.

I think a lot of the confusion arises simply out of the name "Flat Base" and the fact that we use terminology such as "base coat", "colour coat", "top coat", "clear coat" etc.  People read "Flat Base" on the label and assume that it's used in a similar way to a  "base coat".

I think the problem lies in the packaging, where X-21 sits in the rack right in the middle of a whole range of similar looking bottles.   Package it in something that looks nearly identical to something else and people will try to use it the same way. It would have been preferable to have this item separate from the "normal" paint line with its own separate instructions for use.

However Tamiya are not alone in this. Gunze make a similar product and it is also "in the rack" alongside the regular paints. (Again with no particular special instructions) Next time you pick up a spray pack of Testors primer, see if there is any difference between the instructions on the label and the instructions on the label of a "normal" colour paint.

MusicCity wrote:

So basically it boils down to this:  Tamiya Flat is a great, versatile product that allows you to control how flat your final finish is.  The bad thing is there are NO directions on the jar, which will obviously leave someone with negative feelings about the product if they aren't aware of how to use it and end up ruining a model ... That's a bit of an oversimplification.  In fact the bottlle states "Flat BASE".  Nowhere does it say "Clear Flat" or "Paint".  It specifically states that the product is a "Base".  If someone doesn't know what paint base is then I would think they would try and find out before spraying it on a model they had worked quite hard on.  I know I did, and so did most of the others who have not had problems with it.  After all, people don't pour just anything on a hamburger, take a big bite, and then say, "Hey! What's cosmoline?"  (OK, that's an oversimplification to)

Scott, it pains me to do this...

Which clearly (pun intended) shows it as a paint.

As you may remember my very first post here was along the lines of "I used X-21 Flat Base and...". I had posted here for the first time looking for an answer to why my son's P-51 was covered in white. Luckily I discovered your website and your helpful tip on how to use Flat Base properly. Something that couldn't fit on the teeny little label above. I can well understand how otherwise reasonable people can go wrong with this product. Luckily all was saved without any real harm done (though that son now has a tendency to ask "really?" now ). I still use Flat Base to this day

I've never put cosmoline on my burger, but would question why somebody would have a squirt bottle full of it on the table! 

Thehannaman2 wrote:

I can't believe that this thread made it to two pages.

Let's see if we can make it 3 pages by midnight. 

So basically it boils down to this:  Tamiya Flat is a great, versatile product that allows you to control how flat your final finish is.  The bad thing is there are NO directions on the jar, which will obviously leave someone with negative feelings about the product if they aren't aware of how to use it and end up ruining a model ...

That's a bit of an oversimplification.  In fact the bottlle states "Flat BASE".  Nowhere does it say "Clear Flat" or "Paint".  It specifically states that the product is a "Base".  If someone doesn't know what paint base is then I would think they would try and find out before spraying it on a model they had worked quite hard on.  I know I did, and so did most of the others who have not had problems with it.  After all, people don't pour just anything on a hamburger, take a big bite, and then say, "Hey! What's cosmoline?"  (OK, that's an oversimplification to)

So basically it boils down to this:  Tamiya Flat is a great, versatile product that allows you to control how flat your final finish is.  The bad thing is there are NO directions on the jar, which will obviously leave someone with negative feelings about the product if they aren't aware of how to use it and end up ruining a model, and I would certainly understand their apprehension with using this product again.  I'm glad I had the benifit of learning from the others so I didn't have to learn that lesson the hard way. 

ajlafleche wrote:

I don't buy it. Haven't since the one time I ruined a paint finish 22 years ago. However, people are still buying it and unwittingly ruining their models. Then posting at the various websites asking what they did wrong.

That would be the case for any product when one doesn't know how to use it.  It would be nice if Tamiya had instructions on how to use it.  However, once you know how Tamiya Flat is used and how to mix it, it's fantastic! 

ajlafleche wrote:

Shellback wrote:  ajlafleche wrote:  Thehannaman2 wrote: Has anyone else had a problem with Tamiya flat base fogging?  I did my usual thinning with 70% alcohol and the result looked like I sprayed a thinned white or Floquil Dust.  ANy ideas or similar experiences? Ah, the weekly Tamiya Flat Fiasco. When will Mr T. clearly label this garbage? Or get rid of it. NO, wait, can't get rid of it, the messed up paint jobs result in the sale of more paint and models. Your right about there being no explanation about how to use the Tamiya flat . But once its use is figured out it seems to give a good flat finish . I like the fact that it can be mixed with any acrylic gloss  ( including future and Tamiya clear ) to make it "flat " . All other clear flats don't need to be mixed with ANYTHING to give a good flat finish. The existance of this product baffles me. The Tamiya line up already has the XF range of flat colors (which have to be glossed to have decals applied. ) Adding this to gloss paint seems pointless since you'd have to gloss it again to apply decals. Many years ago, I learned a very simple precept from an old boss: K.I.S.S. keep it simple, stupid. Tamiya Flat Base violates this principle.

Keep it simple stupid , if you dont like Tamiya flat base , then simply dont buy or use it .

The main reason Tamiya makes a Flat BASE instead of a single flat clear is to give modelers choice. Do you want dead flat, satin flat, sorta flat, semi-gloss, etc.

Sure I can buy X series Gloss and XF series Flat, but with the exception of X-18 Semi-Gloss Black, I can't buy a semi-gloss version of their colours. With Flat Base I can custom make my own. I haven't so far, and can't easily conceive of the time that I would, but I could.