Newbie Needs Advice on Painting

Yeah theres a good point. Somewhere I said that this is controversial, didnt I? Some folks abide by it, others don't. I do and tend to lighten just a tad. Its all subjective any way and the numbers I gave were an average. I painted a plane once exactly by the formulas given and another the same color right from the bottle. Guess what. All I could tell was a minor difference! Taken individually, it was no matter anyway, because no one knew but me...

What I see more than anything is the BRiGHT effect that new paint jobs have. I worked around military aircraft for years and the only ones that looked like that were just out of the paint shop - and you had to stand right next to them to even know it. You'd do better to adopt a method of toning down some of that with subtle weathering techniques. You'll go a long way towards better realism by doing so.

Since you are asking 'those that believe there to be a scale color effect...' :) This is an interesting subject.

It's believed to be due to atmospheric distortion. As we know, a 1/72 model viewed from a foot away, for example, is like looking at the real thing from 72 feet away. An exact color match is too intense for a scale model because it has not been subjected to the 72' of atmospheric distortion (bleaching of intenstity) that a real plane viewed from that far away would be. This is why you need to lighten the paint, the moreso the higher the scale ratio you go, if one wants the hue to exactly match the real thing.

The barn, Ferarri analogies are good. Likewise a 1/72 plane painted in color X will look color X a foot away and 10 feet away. The difference is you view a barn or Ferrari at 1:1 scale (no matter how close or far away you are), but can never do so with a 1:72 plane. It's always at 1/72 scale (no matter how close or far away you are from it), and will always have 72x less atmospheric distortion visible in relation to it's size when viewing it. 

All that being said I just do not worry about it! But, the effect is real I believe. AFVs go through so much shading, highlighting, and washing that it's a moot point with them. If I modeled cars, planes, ships with any frequency I probably would lighten the paint.

Peace,

John

dahut wrote:

you should keep in mind the scale color effect. In essence, this means that models when viewed at scale distances, should be lighter in color than the full scale versions. To achieve this you add white paint to the "true" color ...

David, please do not take this personal. I have been giving this controversial subject some thought myself lately. Now I must ask those that believe there to be a scale color effect...

Would this scale color effect not be seen in real life looking at things far away?
Why is it then that the barn 6 miles down the road is "barn red" and when I drive up next to it, it is still "barn red"?
Why is the red Ferrari on the interstate 4 miles away "Ferrari Red" and when I catch up to it, guess what, it's still "Ferrari Red".
Ok, so the "midnight blue" pickup was still "midnight blue" but it was metallic. That I couldn't tell from a distance.
The only changes in color that occur is when, where and how the light is being reflected off of the object. Without a change in light, there is no discernible change in color.

Ok, I said my peace.
Oop's... almost forgot...

And let there be light!  

Hey Folks -

 

I just registered - found a lot of helpful info here I the past (and present)!

 

I pick enamel or acrylic (‘regular' or water based) based on how I will weather and if I will be applying winter white-wash camouflage. I model German and Russian AFVs almost exclusively.

 

If I am using Model Master enamels (yes, I too grabbed a 4000 series MM instead of the 2000 series, not realizing it was acrylic!), I use lacquer thinner and cut at 1:3 (P:T, almost always using flats). Cut the glosses at 3:2 P:T. I do not use enamels if I will be applying a shading wash of artist's oil cut with mineral spirits. The wash is just that and the mineral spirits bring back into solution somewhat the enamel base/camo colors.

 

If using a mineral spirit-based weathering wash, I use acrylics (Tamiya or Gunze) for the base coat after priming with a dark gray enamel. I cut Tamiya acrylics with 90% isopropanol or Tamiya acrylic thinner at much greater dilutions (1:3-1:6). For highly detailed plastic I cut around 1:6. For Gunze paints I also use a 1:1 water/isoprop mixture at 3:2 (P:T). If applying a winter camo coat to the painted model, I will use Tamiya acrylics for the base/camo, Gunze for the white wash (cut with straight water, no isopropanol, or the Tamiya acrylic base/camo coats will bleed), and then artist's oil/mineral spirits for the wash. I use water-based Gunze so that I can remove/weather the white from edges with a water-dipped Q-tip. Have to shoot the model though with an acrylic flat coat (thinned 3:7 P:T with 1:1 water/isoprop) after weathering the white and before applying the decals, or the white behind/around the decal will run. If the water/Q-tip happens to take up a bit of the acrylic layer too, I have the dark gray enamel underneath to look like primed steel.

 

I prefer acrylics over enamels (just my preference). They dry quicker, and can be more easily scrapped off for gluing on photo-etched parts or copper scale wire (which I use whenevr I can), chipping of pain for weathering, etc. Plus I can thin the acrylics with water/isoprop.

 

If I use both enamels and acrylics, one for base and the other for camo/weathering, I always use odorless paint thinner for the paint type I am applying last.

 

Add thinner to the paint (not visa versa), and if you need to add more thinner to your mixture, add the thinner to that. I keep the small paint jars after emptying them and use them as mixing chambers. They store ok too. I use plastic droppers to get the ratios in a reproducible way.

 

Best wishes for that Mosquito Pap-John

 

Peace

 

John

Could you elaborate on this? ...So for 1:72 scale does this mean if I need a total volume of 15 drops(just an example) of mixed/thinned paint at a ratio of two parts paint to one part thinner then I need seven drops of base paint, three drops of white paint and five drops of thinner? I assume the white paint is added to the base color before the thinner.

Well, you are on the right track. Understand first, there is much debate on this issue -  some agree with this concept (as I do), others disagree. In the end, it's pretty subjective any way you shake it. That being said, it's also fairly simple, and I'll use rounder numbers for an example:

For a 100 drop volume equivalent of paint, 70 drops will be of the base color and 30 will be white for 1/72 scale. For your 15 drop example, 4.5 are white, 10.5 base color and so on. As Im sure you've noticed, this takes no account of the thinner, which adds nothing to the color itself. It is only there in the first place to make the paint flow better and snuggle down "tighter."

Unlike the Scale Color Effect, thinner ratio's are more a matter of trial and error. There are some formulas that are fairly constant, though, and I adhere normally to an 75:25 mix, paint/thinner. Some say a 50:50 mix is correct, others just wing it. But this 75:25 rule of thumb has worked well for me as a starting point. We'll see why this less-than-precise method is okay, in a minute. SO, for your 15 drop volume of color-mixed paint, you would add something like 3-4 drops of thinner to achieve a total of 18 drops.

Do all this mixing in a small jar, shot glass or whatever is suitable and then transfer the needed mix to your airbrush cup with a pipette. For larger volumes, just pour the mix into the airbrush paint siphon jar. If you're using a bristle brush, just paint out of the mixing cup.

You'll want to mix more than needed, though, because practicing with it BEFORE you spray it on the model is important. See, there are variables at work, even on the small scale we work in. ESPECIALLY on a small scale, is probably more like the truth. Humidity, temperature, air pressure, paint volume at point of impact - all of these affect full scale painting, and they have similar effects when factored into scale model spraying.

There're probably simpler ways to do all this, but I have never had much luck with dogmatic methods. I stick pretty close to the numbers mentioned, and brush painting is a bit more forgiving than airbrushing, but either way, there can and will be adjustments that you must be prepared to make. This is why there is that inexact "artsiness" to the process.

After your painting session, I suggest you resist the urge to be TOO frugal by saving the little dribs of paint you are left with. Some people put it in yet another bottle to save for "later," some just toss it back into the source bottle, figuring it aint enough to do any harm. In the end, that's false economy and isn't worth the trouble. Toss it and clean up.

I hope this helps.

dahut wrote:

Also, you should keep in mind the scale color effect. In essence, this means that models when viewed at scale distances, should be lighter in color than the full scale versions. To achieve this you add white paint to the "true" color in the following ratio: 15% white added to the total volume of the base color for 1/32nd scale models, 25% for 1/48th scale 30% for 1/72nd scale.

 

I am a newbie also. Could you elaborate on this? So for 1:72 scale does this mean if I need a total volume of 15 drops(just an example) of mixed/thinned paint at a ratio of two parts paint to one part thinner then I need seven drops of base paint, three drops of white paint and five drops of thinner? I assume the white paint is added to the base color before the thinner.

Is that correct?

Thanks

Chris 

I like to use a 50:50 mix of lacquer thinner and minspirit. The laquer thinner adds a little "heat" to the thinned paint and allows it to run out thinner and smooth out better. It does tend to dry faster, so dont run your air too high. Experiment first!

Also, you should keep in mind the scale color effect. In essence, this means that models when viewed at scale distances, should be lighter in color than the full scale versions. To achieve this you add white paint to the "true" color in the following ratio:

15% white added to the total volume of the base color for 1/32nd scale models,

25% for 1/48th scale

30% for 1/72nd scale.

Another option is to overspray the model with very thin coats of thinned grey paint to achieve a subtle dulling effect.

Finally, no real aircraft is a smooth homogenous color. Rather it is normally a patchwork of shades of the main colors, all best best applied by subtle applications of tan-white-grey blends of pastel chalks. FSM did a great PDF on it.

I found that (at least for me), thinning the lighter colors (whites, yellows, light blues) seem to go on better (ie flow together better, less streaking, colors seem brighter) if I thin with laquer thinner.  Now I just thin all my enamels (MM, Humbrol and even some old Pactra) with laquer thinner.  It's not that much more expensive than mineral spirits and I can get both at the local lumber yard or hardware.

PaPa-John wrote:

Thanks for the infor.  By the way, Model Master paint is enamel. Looks like I will have to make a trip to the hardware store and the local hobby shop. John

Be sure and check when you buy it- Model Master makes both. I found out the hard way!  

Thanks for the infor.  By the way, Model Master paint is enamel.

Looks like I will have to make a trip to the hardware store and the local hobby shop.

John

For the testors enamel, use paint thinner, the mineral spirit type.

For the MM paint, it depends on if it's enamel or acryl. If it's enamel use the same as above, if not, you can use MM thinner for acryls. I've not used them so I'm not sure if other stuff works.

For Tamiya, I use the 90% alchohol as a thinner.

Hope this helps!