Calling all Paint Pros

Thx guys for the help.

 My booth though is moderately sized....about 1.25 foot box with two duct fans running in it. filters attached, but the air is whisked away through ducts to the outside air. 

I think i am working way too fast for my fans to keep up with. I do use a respirator but i had no idea that the fumes were paint particulate matter in the air.....must get out the scrub brush.

 When i am done painting, i can faintly smell the fumes, only after i take off my respirator.

 I dont stay in the room and just let it vent for an hour or so. I think my problem is more speed.

I spray way too much way too quickly and i dont think my fans can keep up with it.

Thank you guys/gals for the help!

-Brian

Triarius wrote:

The only exception would be a paint formulated with ammonia as a cosolvent (there are some, mostly interior house paints, but it could be any application.).

 

The paints that I use Windex with are Reaper and Vallejo acrylics, which are pretty much latex paint with higher pigment concentrations.

But like I said, I always use a respirator no matter what I'm using now. Only took once to learn that lesson.

I either use purified water or alcohol to thin the acrylics I use (mostly Tamiya). The one thing you have to remember when using alcohol is to not fog the room using it! Never work faster than your exhaust system can keep up with. Also be sure your exhaust system is safe to use in a volatle environment. Alcohol fumes do burn, a spark from an unenclosed fan motor or a lit cigarette can cause a flashover if sufficient vapor is in the air. I've had mixed results using windshield washer fluid (the winter mix). Again proper precautions should be utilized. Most anything associated with painting has accumulative effects. What doesn't phase you today, could build up over the years and have catastrophic effects down the road. Oh, part of the residue smell you have in your workspace is caused by those paint particles suspended in the air attaching to everything in your workspace...walls, floor, ceiling etc. If your room continues to smell, clean it well, vaccuum and dust everything. If it still persists, rent an ozone machine and that should remove any odor residue. But..if possible find a way to vent your painting area directly outdoors. I can show you how mine set works, just contact me directly.

Triarius wrote:

Ammonia is one of the most dangerous chemicals commonly available, especially in vapor or aerosol forms.

Too true, and the other household ingredient that is up there in danger is chlorine bleach. The combination of household liquid ammonia and bleach can create some incredibly dangerous concoctions. More or less equal parts give you Chlorine Gas, add more bleach for Nitrogen Trichloride and add more ammonia resulting in Hydrazine. The first can kill you just by breathing it, while the other two can result in spectacular explosions before you get to breath them in!

You might want to go to your laundry room and double check the lids! It's one reason why I try not to do laundry!!

I would never thin any paint with anything containing ammonia. Ammonia is an extremely aggressive chemical, and quite likely to play havoc with both the binder and the pigment. That is why ammoniated cleaners are so effective cleaning airbrushes. The only exception would be a paint formulated with ammonia as a cosolvent (there are some, mostly interior house paints, but it could be any application.) But even with these, there is no reason for the exception, as such paints are readily, and much more safely, thinned with water.

Ammonia is one of the most dangerous chemicals commonly available, especially in vapor or aerosol forms.

There is no reason to use ammonia or an ammoniated compound as a reducer or thinner for paint! Don't do it! 

Yup, it was the ammonia. Does wonders for the lungs. I did some electrical work in an ammonia plant for a bit, and that's some stout stuff.

Sounds like you were reacting to the ammonia in Windex, which is incredibly harmful. A sore throat is but one of the respiratory symptoms of exposure. I used to work for a blueprinting company which used ammonia fumes to image the blueprints, and while the slight fumes could definitely wake you up, the many gas masks throughout the company in case of a leak was a bit off-putting. I recall that the main operator used to joke that if the tank let go we wouldn't have time to put the masks on anyway. The fire department used to visit us on a regular basis to make sure that the masks worked and all safety precautions were in place, and I heard from one of them that blueprinting companies gave them fits for all the dangers. It's old tech now, replaced by large format laser printers. There was a real craft to being a good blueprinter, and that has gone the way of the dodo.

OTOH dilute ammonia cleans acrylic paints and your tighty-whities very well!

The Vallejo style water based acrylics are often thinned with Windex for airbrushing. I speak from experience after the first time I used an airbrush with this setup, the next day my throat did not like it. I'm sure it would be harmful after enough exposure.

I always use a respirator no matter what I'm spraying now.

Fred is essentially correct about the relative toxicity of acrylics vs. enamels and their thinners, and that acrylics should not be regarded as essentially nontoxic. They do contain various organic chemicals, including solvents, but their organic volatile component is generally quite low. Some of them use various alcohols as primary solvents or as cosolvents for water or other cosolvents.

Overall, their toxicity can be regarded as low, provided they are used properly. The same can be said of their primary reducing solvents, (thinners for spraying) which are usually either water or an alcohol. Cleaning solvents are usually detergent or soap and water, Simple Green (a commercial surfactant-soap), Windex (or similar ammoniated cleaner), or alcohol. Common alcohols are flammable, and you can get drunk on the vapors.

I would never rely on a spraybooth that merely filtered the air and returned it to the room, even for acrylics. For enamels and lacquers, they are "right out" as far as I'm concerned. Vented to the outside is the one, true, right, and only way, IMHO.

Acrylics are far less toxic than enamels, but they're not completely harmless - they are chemicals afterall.

Is your booth venting outside or are you relying strictly on the filter?  The filter is good for capturing particlulate matter that actually makes it to the filter.  But for the particles (i.e. fumes) that don't, the filter is pretty much a bust.

What you can do (whether or not you're venting to the outside) is run the fans for about a half hour prior to painting.  This will pretty much guarantee that the air in the room is circulating through the filters in the booth.  Then, once you're done, leave it running for another half hour to make sure it's had a chance to circulate all the air in the room.

That should help keep the stink from lingering around the room.

-Fred