Spray Booth - Pace Peacekeeper vs Artogragh 1530; Compressors - Iwata SmartJet vs ABD-TC-20T

Thanks, Nam

Venting is quite simple.  It has a cage blower bolted to the back side and dryer duct hose that runs to the window behind it (though not in the picture).

I've been looking forward to your home built rig, so hurry it up, would ya?   

-Fred

That looks like a very decent sized booth, Gigatron....and for your price, very nice!

Don't know how you managed to vent it outside in a room with such flooring.....but we find a way, no?

 I have again rethought my venting process. I like the downdraft idea....but read a couple things regarding drawbacks.....Now I'm leaning toward straight out the back. Also, much easier and quicker to configure...and I'm behind schedule!

Appreciate the pic!

Nam 

Here's an older pic of my spraybooth 

I picked it up on ebay for about $225.  It has to be assembled (simple nuts and bolts - included) and includes the blower.  It's maybe 30"x30"x30".  It fit a 1/48 P-61 with plenty of room to spare for other parts.

It's filtered with furnace filters and vents outside.  It's not much louder than a bathroom ceiling vent, but it moves a ton of air.

Should last a lifetime and filter replacements are like $1.

-Fred

Regarding the Artograph filters:

I usually place my model on a piece of cardboard, which then sits directly on the filters.

As to what filters are required if venting outside, I'm not sure... as you know, there are three filters.  The uppermost layer, the prefilter, is basically a heavier and larger version of a dryer sheet.  The midfilter second layer is about equivalent to 3/4" of fabric batting.  The bottom most layer, the charcoal filter, is about equivalent to a 1/4" thick scotchbrite pad.  Underneath the charcoal filter is a metal pan with ~1/4" x  ~1.25" holes that let the air pass through to the fan.

I tried running the 1520 both with and without the filters.  With the filters, airflow was perceptible, but slow, across the entire surface of the hood.  Without the filters, the airflow was really strong near the center of the hood, right above the fan, but I had a hard time detecting air flow at the corners, so I think the filters slow and even out the airflow across the entire hood.  Although both the midfilter and charcoal filter work to slow down the air, you could probably get away with just the midfilter.

The problem with the midfilter alone though is that it looks like a trap for snagging with landing gears, pitot tubes, and antennae, so I would also recommend the prefilter to provide a better working surface.  You could find suitable substitutes to what Artograph offers for the pre- and midfilters if you decide to go with an Artograph product.

Hope this helps.

I am sorry that other business has kept me from completing my homemade booth (pics in another thread)....

 But, yes.....furnace filters for a vented booth can catch most anything....I mean they aren't HEPA....but a furnace filter catches stuff as fine as drywall sanding dust, all that gets by goes outdoors...and I've found that little or no crud adheres to the fan itself....and at a couple bucks each....why not? 

Cheers, there is only one distributor for Pace booths:

http://www.pacepaintbooths.com/pace/

one owner Bob at paintboothbob@aol.com, or toll free number 877-872-4780

Ask shipping costs for YOUR zipcode. as it varies greatly, this sucker was big.

Search for info on pros/cons, there is NO perfect spray booth, you have to match YOUR needs (and budget!) to your spray booth. Dont forget you still need to get a respirator. Finally, when you plan your workshop, the outlet window for the venting has to be 6' or less from the booth, maybe a tad more, 9'? no kinks on the venting tube... cant help you with the filter question the Pace just has the one furnace type filter

Jim

Hello,

Thanks for this thread! I've always painted outside but now that I have an official workshop and a 7 month Winter, I'm looking for a spray booth. Could I bother you guys with a couple of questions?

1. I couldn't find a distributor for Pace Peacemaker on Google, where do you order one of these?

2. The Artograph has three filters.  If I exhaust to the outside which of these filters (if any) would I need in place? Sounds like a dumb question but I'm not sure how the booth is put together. In other words, does the model you're painting sit directly on a filter for support?

Thanks for the help!

Thanks all for the info... I got the Pace Peacemaker... as mentioned somewhere else in the post, if you do a cost analysis over a period of a few years, the Artrograph ends up being 3x the cost of peacemaker due to the cost of the filters. Also, as mentioned, the built in light and elec outlets make a bigger difference that I thought. The main benefit of the artrograph was the ability to be used without venting to the outside (as a choice). I also play it safe and dont prime with spray cans in the hood, still go outside for that... will decant the spray can and use AB from now on, now that the weather is getting chilly.

I also got the ABD-TC-20T compressor... its ok, still noisy (ie, you cant use it late at night with rest of family sleeping), but you can fill in the tank earlier during the day and use at night. As with all compressors, the key is how long they LAST! I chose it over the Iwata simply because it was packaged with a better deal, $260 with the Iwata CS AB kit.

In any case, I love the Pace Peacekeeper... its HUGE, meaning, Ican (could) do 1:32 or 1:48 bombers with ample space... or have a 1:48 A/C drying while applying putty to another one... and I calculated that I would need to spend around 30$ in filters over 5 years instead of 150$ with the Artrograph...

Greetings,

When I was looking for a paint booth a couple of years ago, I was found myself in the same position as you, trying to decide between the Pace and the Artograph.  For me the price of the Artograph filters was a big negative and I wound up buying the Pace.  The Pace has been my best modeling investment yet and I have been completely satisfied with the product and the performance.

I like the size of the Pace and the fact that it comes with a detachable work table that clips on the front of the both.  Once I put it on, I found that it was so handy I have never taken it off.  The Pace uses ordinary furnace filters.  I have mine vented out my basement window and I get absolutely no fumes when I spray.  The pace also has an adjustable fan switch and a couple of built in electrical outlets on the side of the booth.  I build nostly 1/48 and it is big enough to handle 1/32.  Go for the Pace you won't be sorry.

I also bought the Iwata Smartjet and really like it however I could have saved a couple of dollars by going for the Sprintjet which is the Smartjet without the auto shutoff.

Hope this helps you,

Chuck B. 

JMart wrote:

MikeVL: Thank you for your response; can you fit a 1:48 a/c within the badger? I saw a picture (same one you posted), seems like the lack of "walls" would not contain fumes as well as other booths?  How often you need to change the filters?  Thanks for the info

I don't think the walls have a whole lot to do with exhaust personally.

Here is my 1:48 Tamiya P-47D sitting in the Badger booth for size comparisons.

I have painted about three models in it and have not changed the filter.

I think I am going to look for a furnace filter at Wal Mart that will fit it as all it needs to do is catch the big particles, the rest are exhausted outside.  

Jim,

I have the Artograph 1530 and am very happy with it.  I've had it for about three years and have yet to replace the 2nd and 3rd stage filters, and have gone through perhaps six prefilters at the most.  What really clogged the prefilters was my primer coat of Mr. Surfacer.  A couple of times I didn't have it thinned correctly and I got those 'spider webs' all over the place. Fortunately these are the least expensive of the three filters. Perhaps I should change the other filters but they seem to still be working fine. I build 3-4 kits a years, so hopefully that gives you an idea as to its cost. 

The noise isn't much of an issue to me, and it is definitely quieter than my old Paasche 500 compressor.  Like ckfredrickson said, I'd say it's about as loud as a range fan (which it basically is).  Mine is set up in the garage, and my family can't hear it inside the house while they could always tell when my compressor was on (I recently got an Iwata Sprintjet compressor and love it).

I vent mine outside, even though it's apparently not necessary.  I mainly paint with enamels, and the only time I get much of an odor is when I crank up the PSI and open the airbrush all the way.  I still wear a respirator, though, partly because I often have my face right up to what I'm painting so I can see the details clearly.

The 1530 has a lot of space.  I've only done 48th scale WWII fighters so far, and it has more than enough room.  I'm working on an Accurate Miniatures B-25 now and I should have no problems with that as well.

I've not used the Pace but have heard nothing but good things about it.  I don't think you could go wrong with either.

HTH,

Mark    

ckfredrickson - Thanks again for your input... Im still undecided, trying to make a cost-analysis of ownership (ie, figuring out how much will the Artograph cost me over 5-10 years including the filters). Also waiting to hear from Pace to see what type of filters their booth uses... ugh, I need to get this before the weather get cold! :)

Thanks again for the info!

I used to get some "front flow" when I first got it, but backing the pressure on my compressor down to ~20 psi and not using the airbrush at full open seems to help a lot.  I believe the 1530 has two of the same motors I've got in the 1520, but only 50% more space, so it may not have this problem.

As to your projects, I'm not totally sure your subject matter will need that extra space, but it's usually better to have the extra space and not need it than to need the extra space and not have it.  Like I said, the 1/48 F-15 was the biggest project I've done in there, and it was sort of a tight fit.  1/48 P-51, 1/35 M4 Sherman, and 1/25 1948 Ford had no real estate issues.  I went with the 1520 mainly due to space constraints at my old place (both lack of space and difficulty venting outside), though I've since picked up a number of kits that won't fit the booth.

For instance: 1/48 B-29 and B-1 won't fit (but I doubt they'd fit in the 1530 either).  1/48 F-106 and F-14 are probablies, though the -106 will have to be angled in.  1/32 F/A-18 is a not likely, but the F4U-1 Corsair looks like it will. 

Hope this helps. 

ckfredrickson: Thank you for your response, very helpful! I like many aspects of the Artograph, but dont want to get stuck spending 100$ per year in filters... I do like the fact that you can use it without venting, as I will have to wait some months until I am able to do some minor remodeling. I will be building mostly 1:48 a/c and occasional 1:35 rmor and 1:32 a/c, so I need the extra 'space" of the 1530. I like your "keyboard" shelf, had not thought of that!

You mentioned you can still "smell" the thinner/paint, but do you ever get "front flow" (ie, aerosolized particles floating back to you?). I share my workspace with my kid, have to keep the air clean! Thanks again!

MikeVL: Thank you for your response; can you fit a 1:48 a/c within the badger? I saw a picture (same one you posted), seems like the lack of "walls" would not contain fumes as well as other booths?  How often you need to change the filters?  Thanks for the info

I use the new Badger 135B spray booth and like it a lot.

It is not as big as some of the others but the price is good and the fan is powerful.

Mine exhausts out the window where I have made a board that fits in the window and has a dryer hose connected to it. 

I've got an Artograph 1520, and here's my take on it:

Filters: 1st stage isn't meant to last that long, and I usually get 2-3 kits out of each one before I feel the need to replace it, though it may be good for more.  In my wanderings at Home Depot, I think I once spotted a material that may provide a viable substitute for this layer in the gardening section, but nevertheless stick with Artograph's filters.  For the 2nd and 3rd stages, I again stick with Artograph's.  I've never vented it outside, and have used acrylics, enamels, and Future.  It's been awhile since I've used it, but I seem to recall there's still some thinner/paint odor, but particulates are for the most part contained (helps to keep air pressure low and, if you have a double action or hybrid brush, don't open it up all the way).

Noise level: I realize this is subjective, but I would place it somewhere between an older range hood and a vacuum cleaner in loudness.  The 1530 may be a bit louder as it has two fans.

Ergonomics:  I've had space issues with the 1520 (1/48 scale F-15 was a tight fit).  I wouldn't recommend having two models in the booth at the same time unless you want them the same color. 

As to comfort, that's a bit subjective, and really depends on how you locate it.  In my original set up, I had a ~12"-wide shelf in front of it to place paints and supplies on, but then I feel like I was leaning too far and it's sort of uncomfortable.  I now have a retractable keyboard shelf, and that makes things a little better.  Whether or not you get the same feeling will depend on the peculiarities of how you locate it, but this may occur with any booth you use.  I've also placed mine higher so that it's more comfortable to stand at (not hunching over) though if you'd like to use it seated, I'd recommend leaving a well underneath for your legs.

For a compressor, I use a Thayer and Chandler Air Star V, which I realize isn't on your list.  But, in my experience, it can't be used for bike tires.  I have used it and an empty airbrush to remove dust from the innards of my laptop though.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Gip, thank you for your detailed answer.. I have read many of your other posts as I have searched the forums, glad to hear a voice of (careful) reason in here. I have worked in biological labs for many years (biohazard and chemical hoods), im shocked at the booths some people construct in here..not safe at all... glad to have your voice in here.

 and yes, the Pace booth specs are a tad shifty, not sure how you can get the negative inflow of air with that extension protruding... and I have 2 fire extinguishers each side of my workbench, Im a tad paranoid that way!

I was leaning towards a tank previously (I can get used regulators from work); i will look to see if I have a source of SMALL squat tanks nearby (I dont want the tall ones, they can keel over, break regulator and mess things up), Co2 I think cheaper than N2..

 Anyways, thanks again for all your posts and help!

Cheers, Jim

JMart wrote:

1. Filters: Autograph uses (expensive) proprietary filters.. how much use you get out of them before replacement? Better (cheaper) sources of filters than the supplier? Can it REALLY be used without venting (filters-only?) Im talking regular AB use, not RC.

Filter life will depend on the amount of use the booth gets.  The higher the frequency/duration, the quicker the filter gives out.  I don't know of other sources, but I'm sure there are companies that are all about competitive pricing.  Check out companies like DixieArt, BearAir, etc.  Rotating the filter element so that you're not spraying over one spot all the time should also increase filter life.

The whole idea of an activated carbon filter is to be able to recirculate clean, exhausted air back into the room.  While that's a good thing, nothing beats venting to the outside.  Artograph booths give you both options. 

JMart wrote:

2. Noise levels: Are they as loud as......? Hair drier? AC? Fridge? fog horn?

For the most part, the Artographs are pretty quiet.  Shouldn't be much louder than an average room fan running full speed (<84 dBA). 

JMart wrote:

3. Ergonomics: how comfortable? any space issues? Can you paint one model while having a second one drying? Seems Peacekeeper has an edge here...

Comfortable?  I don't know, I've never worn one...(ahem!)    Ergonomics is going to be up to you.  Mounting the booth so that you can stand without having to bend over, or mounting it so you can sit such that when you paint, your arms are in the most natural position of function and your torso remains erect is going to be the best, IMHO. 

If the booth is large enough, and the kits are small enough, and your air pressure is reasonably low, and the angle of your AB is such that overspray is at a minimum, and a host of other variables are met, sure, you can spray one while the other dries.  I wouldn't recommend it, however.  Again, just my opinion.

For the present, I'm not "going there", but for the record, I'm not impressed with Pace booth design...

JMart wrote:

I like/need large booths, so I eliminated the Pashee and Badger models, as well as the smaller autograph. Thanks for the input...

You're welcome!

JMart wrote:

COMPRESSORS. Again, my two finalists... Im going for reduced noise, but ABD has an air tank (both with regulators and water traps). 1. noise levels? Compressor will be in the basement, within the house proper, I usually "hobby" at night 2. Tank reservoir? 3. Maintenance? needs anything to keep running? 4. Multiple Usage - have you used these compressors for LIGHT air pumping usage, such as filling up air mattress, balls, bike tires, etc? (Need to score points with wife ;)...

2 suggestions here if noise and keeping the War Department (e.g., wife) happy is an issue:

1.  I know Air Force used to make them, but they are ultra-quiet models made using refrigerator compressors.  You can even make your own, if you're so inclined.  MikeV (I believe) showed some plans a few years back on making your own.

2.  The other consideration might be to forego the compressor altogether, and get a setup utilizing either a CO2 bottle, or a Nitrogen/Argon tank.  N2 and Ar2 tanks and all the regulators/valving, etc. are usually available through local welding supply houses, etc.  Nice thing about using gases like these is that they are DRY.  No need for water traps.  Also pretty much eliminates any fire potential inside your booth--not that there's a lot there anyway....but.... And furthermore, they're maintenance free, and no need to buy a separate tank.  Kind of win/win all the way around.

JMart wrote:

Thanks for your input and help!

Again, you're welcome.  Hope this helps you a little.

Gip Winecoff