Do I need a new airbrush, or am I HORRIBLE at thinning paint?

I'll qualify my statements by saying I've never owned or used any model of the Aztec airbrush - After seeing my first one in the LHS, I decided against getting it. And I'll admit that a lot of the decision was based upon the "You get what you pay for" adage.  Not only that but I felt that it just looked gimmicky and cheaply made.  (it wasn't near as well made as the single action Binks Wren I already had - in fact still have and use).  Finally got a double-action when wife gave me a Paasche VLS a few years later.

From what you write, I don't think you would be disappointed if you upgraded to a better airbrush.  However, if you should decide to up grade, I feel you would be much better off if you went on line and bought your next airbrush from someone who deals in airbrushes - try Air Bear or Dixie Art.  At least that way you have some sort of support if you have problems down the road. (which you certainly won't have from Ebay).  And the prices on some very good airbrushes are only a few bucks higher than what you would pay on Ebay 

If you're bad at thinning paint, a new airbrush isn't going to help any.  What type of paint are you using and how are you thinning it? What ratios?  How much air pressure are you using?  Is your airbrush clean? etc.

You don't what what PSI you spray at? That's quite likely your problem. 50 is just WAY too high of pressure. Get a regulator and drop it down to around 20PSI.

You're also thinning too much, try 3 parts paint to 1 part thinner. Too thin and you get spidery lines and poor coverage.

If the a270 is the one I'm thinking it is, it's a pretty basic airbrush. If you can afford it, try a Badger 200-20, sells for $40 + shipping at Bear Air.

I have never owned or used an Aztek, but I got a Badger 100LG for my first airbrush. Azteks seem "fake" and cheaply constructed to me. That's just opinion...I don't think of them as "real" airbrushes. Try a Badger or Paasche of you're looking to upgrade. If you want to move up to a double action, I highly recommend a Badger 100 or 150 Series airbrush. If you still want a simple single action, but much better quality than an Aztek, get something from the Badger 200 line of airbrushes. Here's links from my favorite place, with the best prices.

Badger 150, double action, siphon feed. $55

http://www.bearair.com/prodinfo.asp?number=100008

Badger 100LG, gravity fed, double action. $69

http://www.bearair.com/prodinfo.asp?number=100115

Badger 200NH, siphon feed, single action. $39

http://www.bearair.com/prodinfo.asp?number=100124

The differences between a gravity fed AB and a siphon fed AB are smaller than you might think. Smaller in the sense that the gravity fed are more "capable" of spraying a thinner line, due to it's ability to use less air pressure. Otherwise they work pretty much the same.

Actually achieving that smaller line is more dependent on the user than the brush, especially with dual action. I have 3 brushes: 100LG, 150 and 200-20 (there is a difference between the 200-20 and the 200NH Ben listed above, I prefer the -20 version). In reality they are all variations of the same basic airbrush.

The 100 series is dual action and is available as SG (slotted cup holding just a few drops of paint); the G with a fixed 1/16 oz. cup; the LG with a fixed 1/3 oz. cup; and the SF Side Fed which comes with a 1/16 color cup and is available in left or right hand version. The SF has the added capability of being able to spray completely vertical which is a very nice feature. The 150 is a dual action siphon fed and comes with bottles and color cup. The 200 series is single action and comes as the SG (slotted cup) G (1/16 oz. cup) which are gravity fed and 200-20 (siphon fed with PPS metering system) and the 200NH (siphon fed with the New Head featured on the 155, 175 and 360). The New Head was supposed to eliminate the need to change needle and tips for finer lines, but I see Badger is now offering a "fine" regulator, needle and tip. I prefer to stick with the medium needle/tip combo for my brushes. I haven't had a good reason to exchange the tip and needle, yet.

The 100LG is considered a fine line AB, but I find the control of the dual action a bit fiddly (my fault, not the brush's) and I can spray a better line with my 200-20. That's due to it's PPS paint metering system more than anything else. Being able to dial in the thickness of line for consistant results is a huge benefit. 

Ian,

The two biggest problems I'm seeing from reading your posts is that you're over-thinning and your PSI is about 4 times higher than it needs to be.

Generally, I thin (tamiya acrylics) roughly 30-40% (you want a 2% milk consistency) and spray between 12 and 15 psi, but never above 20 psi.

If you want a cheap, dependable, worthwhile, gravity feed brush, I can't recommend the Iwata revolution BR enough.  It's $60, full metal construction and has become my mainstay airbrush - even over my Iwata Eclipse BCS.  I wish I could make my eclipse a gravity feed, or at least a side feed, but that's neither here nor there.

Make sure your paint is propperly stirred (not shaken), thinned and your psi is correct.  I can almost guarantee that you'll see better results.

-Fred

While a top of the line Iwata can no doubt lay down a slightly smoother coat of paint that can your Aztek, I suspect that any issues you have are more due to your reducing, air pressure, needle setting, and/or painting distance than deficiencies in the airbrush itself.  I started airbrushing with a Testor's A220 (sort of a miniaturized garden sprayer) that is even more lower-end than your 270, and some of my early efforts with it were less than stellar.  As I got I got the hang of properly reducing the paint my results improved.  If I properly reduced the paint and did all there other things right, I that it could lay down a perfectly smooth coat of paint.  Although, I've never used an A270, I figure that anything the A220 could do, the A270 could match or exceed.

On the other hand, while you're still getting the hang of things, don't despair too much.  Your work, including that recent Matilda, is extremely good.  And as you gain more and more experience, I think you'll find that you'll be happier with your results and find everything to be a lot easier.

Andy   

Andy is quite right. Air pressure, distance, needle size and thinning can make or break a paint job, regardless of what airbrush you use. A poor tool in trained hands will yield greater results than a great tool in untrained hands.

However, if you really are thinning 3 parts paint to 4 or 5 parts thinner, than I'm going to respectfully disagree and state that you are thinning too much. A good rule of thumb the lower the pressure the thinner the paint, and the higher the pressure the thicker the paint. 

The A270 is an external mix airbrush, which typically requires a higher pressure to atomize paint than an internal mix airbrush. Higher pressure requires paint with a higher viscosity. So thin less. I would try 25-30 psi and 3 part paint to 1 part thinner. I believe Games Workshop can be thinned with water.

The Isopropyl Alcohol could be causing issues as well, as it "flashes" dry very quickly. Are you experiencing pebbly or rough painted surfaces? That's a sign of the paint drying before it gets to the model.

Ian, I'm going to stick to my guns and say it it's still a thinning and pressure issue.

Are you shaking or stirring the paint before thinning it?  Shaking really doesn't do much.  I really suggest you go to micromark and pick up an electric stirrer.  I believe they're about $10 and it's an extremely worthwhile addition to your tool set.

If the paint is too thick (or not properly stirred) you'll get spatters as globules of paint force their way through the needle.  If the paint is over-thinned, your basically spraying a wash.  It's going to be thin and runny and the high thinner content is going to kill any cohesion and adhesion the paint may have had - and those are all being made even worse by the too high pressure.

I still suggest the Revolution.  All Iwatas are internal mixed, meaning you're getting much better atomization of the paint.

But, at the end of the day, it's your call

-Fred

IanIsBored2000 wrote:

That could be the problem, I'll try water....do I add a drop of dish soap to break it up?  or is that just with washes?  I've found that if not thinned enough it sort of sputters and splatters, and if thinned too much the paint doesn't even seem to stick, it just runs, maybe the sputtering is the Isopropyl Flash Drying like you mentioned.  Thnaks---I'll do some tests and post my results.

Don't do dish soap...you'll have bubbles and who knows what else. I learned that Tamiya paints don't thin well with water, even distilled water like some manufacturers reccomend...Use isopropyl alcohol. For Model Master and Polly Scale, distilled water works great. The dish soap is for acrylic paint sludge washes. There's an article here about it...

Hey, I just recently bought an AB after doing lots of research. I ended up going for a Paasche VL simply because my LHS had it in stock and all of the reports i have heard about it are good. so if you are looking at upgrading i would recommend it. I agree with the other guys about your pressure and thinning ratio. i use 20-25 psi max and thin about one part paint to two part thinner, i dont know whether it's right but it works for me. i got excellent coverage on my recent model which was the Revell A-10 thunder bolt with a dull and dark green camo.

Hope you are able to sort out your problem!!!

Ian,

I think that the posts below have addressed your dilemma very well (air pressure, thinning raio, etc.)  My one comment - if you do plan to upgrade to a new airbrush, you may want to check out the Thayer and Chandler (Badger) Omni 4000.  For me, at least, it helped transform the airbrushing experience from one of frustration to one of pure delight.  And one other comment: clean, clean, clean - keep the AB as spotlessly clean as possible.

Good Luck,

Larry

Ian,  I also have been experimenting with all the aspects of my airbrushing. The other posts have (correctly) beaten to death pressure and thinning.  The only advice I can add is when first getting used to thinning your paints, purchase the thinner made for that brand of paint by that company.  I know it costs way more for what you get, and the difference is small, but at this point I think you are having to make all these small changes and they will add up to some even more steller work!  It is frustrating some times though, isn't it?

Matt 

RandW wrote:

Ian, I'm no expert by far. I bought an Aztec demo set (new) with a 270, 320 & 430. The 430 is not in good shape (after all my fiddling around with it) and I could never get any of them to work properly. I recently picked up a Badger Anthem, and even though it is what I would consider an all-around brush, in the right hands it could be more than sufficient for what we model. I also sent you a PM.

Love your avatar! No soup for you!!!!

Plastic_Cross wrote:

clean, clean, clean - keep the AB as spotlessly clean as possible.

Simple as this: It all works better when it's clean...

MikeV wrote:

Love your avatar! No soup for you!!!!

Thanks, Mike, it was looking a little nekkid over there. And I don't care what airbrush Ian is using, his painting is looking pretty dang good!

gmf143 wrote:

I will never use the Aztec again.

Some people love them, some hate them. I fall into the latter category...