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Homemade spray booths?

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  • Member since
    August 2007
Homemade spray booths?
Posted by ben1227 on Sunday, October 14, 2007 3:00 PM
Since I got my airbrush and I work inside, I think a spray booth is now mandatory. I can't afford, no matter how cheap, a "real" spray booth. The cheapest I found was a Pace Super Mini for $165. If it was maybe $100, I could do it. So I'm gonna have to make my own...Sigh [sigh] I don't have to route the fumes outside through anything, I just need a fan to suck the fumes through a filter. Keep in mind there's no windows, so I need the most effective setup to minimize or elimate most of the fumes by using fans and filters, and a box of some sort. I was thinking computer fans, but how do you plug them into a power source besides a computer power supply? What kind of filter? If you know any good links, I'd love to see them, or if you have pictures of your own, or just ideas.
.:On the Bench:. Tamiya 1/72 M6A1-K
  • Member since
    June 2007
  • From: Elk Grove, CA
Posted by RandW on Sunday, October 14, 2007 3:39 PM

If you're not routing the fumes outdoors, filtering is going to be very expensive. Normal filters are designed to capture larger particles, charcoal will filter odors. What your main concern is toxic fumes. Respirator filters can take care of this, but look at the cost. Is there no way for you to route the fumes outdoors?

As for the fan, computer style fans also come in 120v, such as is used on small reefers and wine coolers. Good luck!

James "I'll have a Coke" Funny Man Rocco
  • Member since
    August 2007
Posted by ben1227 on Sunday, October 14, 2007 6:11 PM
Nope. Sadly, I can't drill holes in the wall/floor/ceiling. But you gave me an idea..Since respirator filters work so well, I could put one or two of those in front of fans so filter it and then blow it theough the fan, back into the room. I'll go buy some cheap 120V fans, but how do I power them without a computer power supply?
.:On the Bench:. Tamiya 1/72 M6A1-K
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Sunday, October 14, 2007 6:30 PM

AC 120v fans don't need a computer power supply. Here's an example of an AC fan and the AC plug. Simply twist the matching wires together with wire nuts and plug in.

http://www.buyextras.com/su12acfan.html

http://www.buyextras.com/6feulceacfan.html 

If you are going to continue to use enamels, I strongly suggest that you save up and buy an airbooth than has the filtration to recirculate the air. If you switch to acrylics ONLY, you might be able to get away with recirculating it through a multi-stage filter. 

So long folks!

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Central MI
Posted by therriman on Sunday, October 14, 2007 6:37 PM

Here was my solution.  I found a circular "Squirrel cage" fan on e-bay.  It was a 48v fan.  Then I found a 48v Telephone Power Supply that runs on 110v.  Then I built a housing around the fan and put a top line furnace filter in it.  The hose in the back goes to a dryer vent outside the house.  But it could be just run outside on a as needed basis.  Doesn't look very good, but I've got less than $100 in the whole thing. Counting the wood.

 

 

Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.
  • Member since
    June 2007
  • From: Elk Grove, CA
Posted by RandW on Sunday, October 14, 2007 6:38 PM
I'm sure others will have more ideas, just trying to think what would be readily available. The 120 volt computer style fans can be wired to a switch and then just plugged in to a wall outlet (115/120v), as long as it's 120 volt fan you won't need a psu.
James "I'll have a Coke" Funny Man Rocco
  • Member since
    August 2007
Posted by ben1227 on Sunday, October 14, 2007 6:55 PM
 Bgrigg wrote:

AC 120v fans don't need a computer power supply. Here's an example of an AC fan and the AC plug. Simply twist the matching wires together with wire nuts and plug in.

http://www.buyextras.com/su12acfan.html

http://www.buyextras.com/6feulceacfan.html 

If you are going to continue to use enamels, I strongly suggest that you save up and buy an airbooth than has the filtration to recirculate the air. If you switch to acrylics ONLY, you might be able to get away with recirculating it through a multi-stage filter. 

Thanks! Thats exactly how I'll do it. So i just connect the bare leads with the wires from the fan and plug it in? Is there any way I could put a switch in that setup? If you don't mind, post  a link if you find one. Also, how many fans should I use?

.:On the Bench:. Tamiya 1/72 M6A1-K
  • Member since
    June 2007
  • From: Elk Grove, CA
Posted by RandW on Sunday, October 14, 2007 7:17 PM

Fans come in different cfm, but I would probably use 2 fans hooked up to a dimmer switch to vary speed. Normally, hot wire(+) from fan to switch, hot wire(+) from lead(cord) to other end of switch and commons just spliced together.

James "I'll have a Coke" Funny Man Rocco
  • Member since
    August 2007
Posted by ben1227 on Sunday, October 14, 2007 7:35 PM
I'll try that and report back.
.:On the Bench:. Tamiya 1/72 M6A1-K
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Thursday, October 18, 2007 11:10 AM
It may be understood ,but I thought I mention for safety sake,shouldn't the motor be immune to vapors or fumes because the motor itself can become a source of ignition if the fumes accumulate

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: The flat lands of the Southeast
Posted by styrene on Thursday, October 18, 2007 6:41 PM

I apologize in advance for anything that comes out of my fingers; I'm really tired, but I feel the need to respond to this post Disapprove [V].

1.  Did you think of doing a search on this forum for spray booth information?  Before ANOTHER sub-standard, non-efficient "booth" is constructed, PLEASE do some research.  A whole dump truck full of info has been written on the subject in this forum.  Take the time to read some of it; it'll save you some time, maybe a few bucks, but absolutely will help prevent some future headaches.

2.  If you're pressed that hard for money, scrap the booth idea, and opt for a good respirator (about $20-$25), and put some fans in the room when you spray.  Open a window (top and bottom) in your spraying area to allow for some good dilution ventilation.  Works great.

3.  You can't use respirator filters as a booth filter.  They won't work at required booth airflow speeds.  Vapors will blow through the charcoal without having a chance to adsorb properly.

4.  Computer fans won't cut it in the airflow department.  They're great for passing a little air over a chip in a 1.5 cubic foot computer cabinet, but to establish adequate vapor capture, and physically get it out of the way, you're going to need something considerably stronger.  The link provided by Bgrigg indicated the fans are rated at about 68 cfm.  Using two as you suggest is an exercise in futility.  At a bare MINIMUM it's going to require close to 400 cfm (based on a 2ft by 2ft booth).  Once you add in filtration and ducting, you've just decreased effective duct transport velocity by a fairly significant amount.

But you said you can't duct outside.  So you'll need to invest in some activated charcoal filters, and they're more expensive than a standard furnace filter (which really isn't all that efficient for paint spray operations). I would save my money and go with a good Artograph booth.  It has everything you're looking for in a booth.

5.  RandW's idea of a rheostat control on fans is great, IF you have a hoss of a fan.  The idea of using a rheostat on 2 computer fans is funny...in a pathetic sort of way.

6. I want to ask Therriman's permission to use his picture in one of the (hopefully) upcoming seminars at the IPMS Nats.  It will be used in my "What NOT to do" section.  How 'bout it, Tim?Smile [:)]

By the way, it's "vapor" not "fume".  A fume is a particulate, typically seen as the condensation of a metal after heating, usually associated with operations such as welding.  Acids can also generate fumes (Oleum is fuming sulfuric acid.) 

Ben, do some research, and save your money so you can either buy, or build, something that will actually work the way it's supposed to.  You can either feel safe, or actually BE safe.

Gip Winecoff

1882: "God is dead"--F. Nietzsche

1900: "Nietzsche is dead"--God

  • Member since
    August 2007
Posted by ben1227 on Friday, October 19, 2007 11:14 AM
Sadly, I can't do $170-$500 for a spray booth like many others can. I considered a good respirator, but I need a surface to airbrush on too. Since I can't vent outside, and I don't want to pay for expensive activated charcoal filters, I guess I'll just go with the best respirator I can find. As I mentioned, the only thing I can do as far as a real spray booth is a Pace Supermini. If you know of something better but around the same price, tell me.
.:On the Bench:. Tamiya 1/72 M6A1-K
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: The flat lands of the Southeast
Posted by styrene on Friday, October 19, 2007 12:26 PM

There's nothing to be sad about.  Although nice to have, spray booths are not an absolute necessity in this hobby.

1.  Get a good respirator.  Mine Safety Appliances (MSA), 3M, and North Safety all make a great product.  I highly recommend any one of the three.  Get a dual cartridge, half-mask device equipped with organic vapor cartridges (has a black ring on the cartridge), and a paint pre-filter (to catch particulates).  These companies also make combination cartridges (organic vapor + HEPA, or P100) that will work, as well, and at about the same price point.  You can order on line, or check the large home improvement stores (Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.).  STAY AWAY from E-bay.  I've seen a lot of cheap, no-name brands that are, as far as I know, not NIOSH approved devices.  If you don't know what to look for, you'll get snookered every time.

2.  Learn to inspect, wear, clean, and store your respirator correctly.  I wrote a fairly lengthy post some time ago that at one point was part of a "Sticky" (where did that go, btw?).  A forum search should turn it up for you.

3.  Get a couple plain, ordinary, room floor box-type fans (Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, etc.).  Position them behind you at an angle while you spray.  Putting them at right angles to your work will cause unnecessary cross-drafting.  The purpose here is to a) drive the vapors away from your breathing zone, and b) to dilute the vapor concentrations.  A source of incoming fresh air, either through the HVAC supply, and/or an open window should be available during spraying operations.

4.  An airbrush surface is limited only by your imagination.  The only thing you should consider is whatever surface you spray on should be open on all sides to allow for the circulation and dilution that circulated air provides.  Do NOT spray into a cardboard box, since vapors will concentrate there and provide a source of overexposure.  You should also give consideration to having a fire extinguisher in your modeling area.  Oh, and don't forget the great outdoors as a great spraying surface... (yeah, I know, winter is upon us).

5.  Lastly, if you are dead-set on a booth, save your money and prioritize your modeling budget.  That Hasamiyamonovell super-kit you've been wanting may just have to wait...

Hope this helps you some.

Gip Winecoff

1882: "God is dead"--F. Nietzsche

1900: "Nietzsche is dead"--God

  • Member since
    August 2007
Posted by ben1227 on Friday, October 19, 2007 4:01 PM
Actually the next big investment was (going) to be a BIG Trumpeter TU-160...I think about $140. But I'll go get some fans and a good respirator. What type do I need exactly for paint particles/fumes/vapor?
.:On the Bench:. Tamiya 1/72 M6A1-K
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: The flat lands of the Southeast
Posted by styrene on Friday, October 19, 2007 8:17 PM

Ben,

I'm including a few links.  These are certainly not necessarily the best, and may not be the cheapest, but are intended to provide you with some information on what sorts of things to look for.

MSA cartridges for painting (organic vapor + N95 particulate): http://www.discountsafetygear.com/ovrecaformsa.html

Here's the MSA respirator with cartridges included: (This is what I have; it's excellent!)http://www.discountsafetygear.com/msaadvov.html

Here's a 3M half-mask respirator (5000 series) with OV + particulate filter: http://www.discountsafetygear.com/3m50sehamaov.html

Here's a North half-mask: http://www.discountsafetygear.com/nosihama.html  I wear this at work occasionally.  Quite comfortable.

North cartridges: http://www.discountsafetygear.com/refiforno77s.html  The combination cartridges shown are overkill, but will still do the job.  If you buy from a safety place such as this, ask if they carry cartridges suitable for painting.

(A look at the North catalog: http://www.linkpath.com/data/issuePDF/N1/1500000261-N1.pdf  shows on page 16, Cat #7581P100 a combination OV and P100 particulate filter, and on page 17, Cat #7531N95 shows a particulate filter assembly that snaps over a plain OV cartridge(Cat #N75001).  Both are suitable for painting.)

A couple things to keep in mind:

1.  Respirators are sold in S, M, and L sizes.  Typically, if you're "average" size, and have a fairly narrow nose and "average" face, then a medium will usually fit in most circumstances.  If, however, you're heavy set, and/or have a wide nose and face, a large may fit you better. If you are black and have the genetic wide nose and attendant facial structure, I have found that this respirator seems to work quite well in both the M and L sizes: http://www.msanorthamerica.com/catalog/product583.html  Of course, there are always exceptions in every case.  If you have the chance, visit a local safety supply house and ask if you can try on a couple manufacturers and in various sizes.

2.  You cannot interchange cartridges between manufacturers.  An MSA respirator cannot be used with 3M or North cartridges or vice versa.  In addition, you can't put MSA Comfo Elite cartridges on an MSA Advantage 200 respirator.  Cartridges are usually sold in pairs, or in boxes with even numbers.  When cartridges go bad, they go bad together.  Change them both at the same time.

3.  If you have questions about a specific brand and what is offered, ask someone. Buying from a safety supply house is often advantageous, because they have folks knowledgeable about the products they sell.  If you want a respirator and cartridges for painting, they usually won't try to sell you one for asbestos abatement; the liability is too great.

4.  Care and feeding:  I found the post! /forums/142964/ShowPost.aspx  Lots of good info there.

There's about a book's worth of info I could write (and I'd have a cure for insomnia!), but I don't wanna.  If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to post 'em here!

Hope this helps.

Gip Winecoff

 

 

 

 

 

 

1882: "God is dead"--F. Nietzsche

1900: "Nietzsche is dead"--God

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