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new to airbrushing

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  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Southern California, USA
Posted by ABARNE on Thursday, November 8, 2007 1:43 AM

My two cents is that for thinning Tamiya acrylics, whether for air brushing or dipping a paint brush for hand brushing, you might as well use Tamiya thinner.  Although the price "seems" expensive, you don't really go through that much thinner.  (BTW, don't use the expensive stuff for cleaning, only thinning)  If you buy a 250ml plastic bottle of it which usually goes for about 6 or 7 bucks, it will last a long time and it's price will be far eclipsed by the price of the paint that it is used to thin and the models that you build.

As for airbrushes, both the single action Paasche H and the Badger 200 NH are excellent air brushes.  I have both, always using the Paasche for acrylics and my Badger for enamels.  Both are very easy to use for a beginner and both have a lot of capability so that even as a proficient airbrush user, you would find either will meet all your likely modeling needs.  In some ways I find the Paasche to be bit easier to use, although the Badger's design theoretically offers a bit better performance.  I practice, it's a coin flip as to which is the better overall airbrush.

Andy 

 

DHM
  • Member since
    September 2007
Posted by DHM on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 8:47 PM

Mny people don't like Tamiya acrylics for brush painting.  I love them.  Thinned with Tamiya acrylic thinner (X-20A) or a 90% isopropyl alcohol/acrylic retarder mix, it covers very nicely.  If you get an airbrush, you'll probably end up liking Tamiya acrylics even more.  They airbrush very nicely.  Personaly, I like the versatility of dual action airbrush and I don't think they're harder to use.  They're just different.  For a good dual action aribrush, I recommend the Badger 100LG or the Omni 4000.  If you want a single action airbrush, try the Badger 200 series, specifically the Badger 200-20.  All of these highly versatile and spray very niclely. 

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: US
Posted by hunterw450 on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 8:04 PM
One thing to remember when buying an airbrush is that you get what you pay for.  It is much more frustrating to try to learn with a bad airbrush.  I would save my money up a bit and get a good one. The Iwata Eclipse or Revolution are good airbrushes imo.
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 7:54 PM

Absolute cleanliness of the surface is an absolute necessity with acrylics, regardless of the application method.

Note the post above about use of thinner when brush painting.

If you use isopropyl alcohol, rather than Tamiya thinner, use only 90% isopropyl. The 70% stuff often has small contaminants that play havoc with paint. You will have to add your own acrylic retarder, too. Be sure to add it to the thinner, not the paint!

It also sounds as if you are drawing the paint out too far. This is a common mispractice. A "wet edge" is just that—WET. As long as the paint isn't running or sagging, it's not too wet. 

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Lakewood, CO
Posted by kenjitak on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 4:11 PM

I've used the Tamiya paints with brushes a lot. Every once in awhile that glopping thing happens; but I heard that it was due to a bit of grease or mold release on the plastic part so the paint doesn't bond. Washing the sprue in soapy water does the trick. A wipe of the offending part with isopropyl alchol should also do it. I haven't run into the problem enough to always wash all the parts, but that is the "right" thing to do.

Ken

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 3:53 PM
In regards to the brush painting, I too find it difficult to brush paint with Tamiya. Testors Model Master seems to brush better for me, but the Tamiya thinned with their thinner does spray better. Again, my own preference. But one thing you can try is to do multiple coats with the Tamiya, lay down one thin coat with minimal over brushing. Let it dry, as in for a couple of hours, don't worry about uneven coverage. Go over it again with another coat. I've found in most cases 2 coats will do and have never need to resort to more than 3 coats for brush painting this way. You do need some patience with this technique.
  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: Maryland
Posted by usmc1371 on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 2:31 PM

This page might help you out: http://www.dixieart.com/AirbrFAQ.html#anchor464478

Jesse

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 2:07 PM

Point conceded about the thinner. I though he meant for airbrushing. For brushing, do use the Tamiya thinner.

For airbrushing, I find that thinning 75/25 rubbing alcohol/paint, at about 18 psi, works very well. (As you've probably noticed the Tamiya paint is VERY thick) The highly thinned paint will not splatter, and because of using rubbing alcohol instead of the Tamiya thinner, it dries within a few seconds of hitting the surface, so you can go over the same area with several thin coats without having to stop to let the paint dry, until you reach the desired opacity.

As far as the airbrush question: With a double action brush, you control both air and paint flow with the trigger, while with a single action, you only control the air. On a single action brush, the paint flow is controlled by twisting the nozzle to open or close it. On the double action brush, you pull pack for paint and push down for air, allowing you far more control. On internal mix airbrushes, air flows around the paint nozzle, atomizing it internally and sending it out the tip. External mix brushes are almost always single action, and consist of two seperate tips, one for paint (coming up from the paint jar) and one for air (coming out of the airbrush) The paint tip is positioned at an angle between 15 and 60 degrees below the airbrush body, and the air tip blows across the paint tip, atomizing the paint outside the airbrush nozzle.

While modelers disagree over which is better for a beginning airbrush, most professional airbrush artists and teachers (the guys from airbrush.com for one) recomend starting with a double-action airbrush. When learning to airbrush, easiest might seem best, but it's not.

The Paasche H is a single action, external mix airbrush:

It is the entry-level airbrush, and works fairly well for basic modeling applications, although you will be able to get a finer spray pattern out of an internal mix brush like the Badger 200:

 

If you decide to go with a more-expensive double action, the Badger 100 series is the best for the price, although Iwata is quite good if you have money to spend. The Badger 100 series is a top-feed airbrush, which in my experience works better when using acrylics than a siphon or bottom feed airbrush. If you want the freedom of both top, side, and bottom feed, the Badger 360 is the way to go. The airbrush head rotates, so you can attach a paint cup in a top or side position, or a jar for bottom feed.

I would recommend at least an internal mix single action brush - they are far more convenient and are less unpredictable than external mix brushes. If you do decide on a double-action airbrush, both Badger and Paasche have some excellent models to choose from. 

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    November 2007
Posted by tmnull on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 12:51 PM

Cool, thanks.  About the wet edge thing though, that's a big problem I have.  I have to let a single stroke set before I put down another next to it, or the second stroke will pull the paint from the first stroke right back off the model.  I think that's the main reason for the globbed finish - I had to put it on really heavily just to make sure the surface was covered.  I ended up stripping the paint off three large pieces because it looked so bad, and because I found another color that looked a lot more realistic.  Is that a simple thing that thinner will take care of?

How does the whole single/double action, internal/external mix thing mean?  Does external just mean I'd have to mix the paints and thin them first, whereas an internal mix would do that automatically?  How much thinner should I use?

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: Maryland
Posted by usmc1371 on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 12:20 PM

I'd have to disagree on both counts.

The best thinner for Tamiya paints is Tamiya's thinner.  You can't go wrong there.  Plus, Tamiya's thinner has a retarder in it that will help with brush painting.  Two tips for brush painting with Tamiya Acrylics: 1) As you're painting, occasional dip the end of the brush into some thinner, just the very tip.  Then dip the brush into the paint.  This will help release the paint from the brush more smoothly.  2) Always keep a wet edge.  By this, I mean be sure your brush stroke ends in a previously painted (wet) area.  For example, drag the brush into an area you just painted, not away from it.

Alot of people will argue as to the best first airbrush.  Some say a double action because it can do the most.  Others say a single action because they're the easiest to learn on.  I believe few people would argue that the Paasche H is a good all around airbrush.  For the beginner, I think it's perfect.  Many people, like me, use it exclusively.  It will run you about about $50.  Of course you'll need an air source also.  But that's a totally different question.  I bought a Paasche H, Regulator, Moisture Trap, and Compressor for $150 from Dixieart.com.

Jesse

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 9:14 AM

Rubbing Alcohol is the best thinner for Tamiya acrylic. Using water will not work well.

A good first airbrush would be a Badger, they're good quality and fairly inexpensive (when compared to brands of equal quality)

The Badger 100LG is what I use, but anything from the 100/150/200 series should work.

The best prices I've been able to find are at bearair.com.  

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    November 2007
new to airbrushing
Posted by tmnull on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 8:51 AM

I've been working with Tamiya acrylic paints, but having a lot of trouble with it.  It's really thick and I keep ending up with globbed, uneven coats.  Can I thin it with water or acrylic thinner without diluting the color at all?

I've also thought about moving to airbrushing, but I don't know really anything about it, and I don't want to go right out and waste money on one that doesn't work well.  What all do I need to make it work, and can anyone recommend a good one that isn't rediculously expensive?

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