Windex verses 91% Iso Alcohol

ABARNE wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me.  More often than not, I use 70% Iso Alcohol for cleaning and I don't notice any real drop off in cleaning effectiveness.  I'm not sure about the cost of 91%, but 70% is pretty cheap so any difference is probably trivial.

I meant the cost between 91% Iso and Windex, sorry.  

They are both so effective I've never noticed a serious difference except one: isopropyl has a tendency to redeposit the paint if it evaporates quickly, Windex does not. With Windex, any redeposited paint rinses off with water. Not so with alcohol.

As for cost, I haven't compared recently, but Windex used to be cheaper, especially if  you buy a generic like that sold by Ace Hardware.

I'm with Ross. There about the same, but if the alcohol evaporates off the paint adheres, with Windex it's off and stays off.

Hands down Windex is the winner, at least pricewise, unless you can find alcohol in 1 gallon containers and compare against the small spray bottles of Windex. If you buy a generic brand of glass cleaner with ammonia the price is substantially cheaper. Zep brand sells 1 gallon for $9.95 and that's equivilent to 15.6 250ml bottles of Isopropyl. The last bottle of Iso I bought was $8.95.

Are you guys talking about the ability of these two to clean the airbrush?

My test was using a plastic paint palette that I mix my paints in and the Windex hardly broke down the dried on paint without lots of rubbing with an old brush. The first swipe across the dried paint with the Iso alcohol broke it up immediately. Maybe on the metal parts of an airbrush they both clean equally well, I have never really compared them that much that way. 

I don't see how evaporation has much to do with it though as even Iso alcohol does not evaporate fast enough to leave paint residue in the airbrush and even if it did it is obviously not clean enough anyhow as there should be no more paint in there. 

I bought a 32 oz bottle of 91% Iso alcohol at Wal-Mart recently and I believe it was $3.89 or something, I am not certain though.  

IYAAYAS wrote:

sure for cleaning up around the work bench, spills and such...alcohol works better. but running alcohol through your ab dries the seals out much quicker than windex.

That would depend on the material in the seals. All common paint solvents (even water!) are aggressive to both natural and synthetic elastomers. Ammonia, the main thing that differentiates Windex from isopropyl alcohol, is extremely aggressive to many elastomers, and will readily attack brass, the metal from which most airbrushes are made.

However, the materials used in the seals of most good quality air brushes these days are chosen for their resistance to common solvents, including ammonia (which is often a component of some water-solvent type paints, chiefly latexes and acrylic latexes). The ammonia in Windex will attack the metal in the airbrush faster than it will attack the seals.

No seal material is resistant indefinitely, and alcohols are defatting agents. All alcohols will eventually attack the lipid-like components that make flexible elastomers flexible.

In terms of equipment durability, it doesn't matter which you use provided you rinse the airbrush thoroughly with a neutral solvent before storing. This means water for acrylics, and usually mineral spirits for enamels and lacquers, as it is the mildest solvent in its class. For long term storage, following the mineral spirits with a detergent or soap and water wash and rinse and thorough drying is a good idea.

You can also rinse with ethyl alcohol. Ethyl is the alcohol least aggressive to most elastomers. 

IYAAYAS wrote:

sure for cleaning up around the work bench, spills and such...alcohol works better. but running alcohol through your ab dries the seals out much quicker than windex.

Seals? There are no seals where the paint moves through the airbrush, there is only the needle bearing and it is FTPE and is not affected by even lacquer thinner.

Ross, I have never heard of ammonia attacking the brass in an airbrush although it can dull the chrome plating over time.  

Sure there are...

look at this link part #50-055

http://www.badger-airbrush.com/150parts.htm

IYAAYAS wrote:

Sure there are... look at this link part #50-055

The head washer (part #50-055) is on the "air" side of the assembly and under normal circumstances, never comes into contact with paint or thinner unless you dunk the entire airbrush into a jar of thinner, or are having a very bad day.

It may be possible for some seepage to reach it through the screw threads, but if this is happenning, the head would be too loose for the airbrush to work properly.

The head washer IS FTPE and laughs at solvents.

But everything has it's nemesis, and the carpet monster eats FTPE like it's mere styrene. 

Bgrigg wrote:

The head washer IS FTPE and laughs at solvents. But everything has it's nemesis, and the carpet monster eats FTPE like it's mere styrene.

Haha!

That carpet monster is a mean one.  

Bgrigg wrote:

The head washer IS FTPE and laughs at solvents. But everything has it's nemesis, and the carpet monster eats FTPE like it's mere styrene.

Now for trivias sake, do you know what the popular brand name is for FTPE?

MikeV wrote:

Bgrigg wrote: The head washer IS FTPE and laughs at solvents. But everything has it's nemesis, and the carpet monster eats FTPE like it's mere styrene.  Now for trivias sake, do you know what the popular brand name is for FTPE?

Dupont, Teflon.

I concur with Tri about the alcohol being bad for synthetics. Alcohol in gasoline is a huge problem for synthetic fuel lines used in autos and boats. How they got vehicles to run E85 without having to replace fuel lines every few months remains a mystery to me.

Phil_H wrote:

Actually, I believe it's PTFE (PolyTetraFlouroEthylene), not FTPE... (and yep, I know what the "popular" name is )

Now that you said that, you're absolutely right! It is PTFE!  

Phil_H wrote:

Actually, I believe it's PTFE (PolyTetraFlouroEthylene), not FTPE... (and yep, I know what the "popular" name is )

Yeah that's what I meant.

My bad.  

You cheated and used Google didn't you?

At the risk of sounding like a , I already knew the acronym, though I did look it up just to re-confirm the chemical name.

I think we all knew what you meant anyway.

Okay, so your name is Liz Dexia. Can we call you Dizzy?

Even PTFE degrades with time and exposure to solvents, ozone, elevated temperatures, and oxygen. It becomes brittle and eventually crumbles. However, unless you routinely dry your airbrush in a muffle furnace and clean it with a chemical like tetrahydrofuran or fluorinated hydrocarbons, this should never be a problem.

Triarius wrote:

Okay, so your name is Liz Dexia. Can we call you Dizzy? Even PTFE degrades with time and exposure to solvents, ozone, elevated temperatures, and oxygen. It becomes brittle and eventually crumbles. However, unless you routinely dry your airbrush in a muffle furnace and clean it with a chemical like tetrahydrofuran or fluorinated hydrocarbons, this should never be a problem.

Ross,

I thought you were a geologist?

You sound like a chemist my friend.

I was trained as a geochemist, and my minor was in chemistry. I then worked in the coatings industry for about 4-5 years (almost all chemistry) and I was then in material science for twenty-six plus years, much of it working side by side with all sorts of chemists.

I am one of a vanishing breed of scientists: those who are generalists rather than specialists; those who look at anything as part of a system, not as thoroughly removed from its context as possible. Don't get me wrong. We need specialists. But what we lack are those who know enough about various apparently unrelated fields to talk to all of them and be understood, and listen to all of them and find relationships that the specialist will never be able to see. 

Uh-oh! Getting on my soapbox again!

Well Ross, I for one appreciate your expertise and input on these subjects my friend.

You and Gip (Styrene) are very helpful to us all on these subjects.

Triarius wrote:

Thanks, Mike! It's nice to be appreciated!

My pleasure my friend. You have always been a good friend to me.