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Single Vs. Double Action

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  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Michigan
Single Vs. Double Action
Posted by ps1scw on Thursday, January 24, 2008 11:16 AM
Is there a significant or marginal difference it difficulty of operation and cleaning of a double action over a single action ab?
  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: Nowhere. (Long Island)
Posted by Tankmaster7 on Thursday, January 24, 2008 11:19 AM
I don't know. I've never had a single action, but I have never found it difficult to clean or operate a double action. I would reccomend getting a doible action over a single action, since they tend to be better airbrushes.
-Tanky Welcome to the United States of America, a subsidiary of Exxon Mobil Corporation, in partnership with Halliburton. Security for your constitutional rights provided by Blackwater International.
  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Michigan
Posted by ps1scw on Thursday, January 24, 2008 11:26 AM
Thanks, I'm leaning towards the 100LG Fine from Badger
  • Member since
    January 2008
Posted by whitebiker on Thursday, January 24, 2008 11:50 AM

I've never used a badger, but I was advised to buy the best a I could afford.  I went with a Iwata eclipse and love it!  I've never used a single action but from what I understand, they have their uses.  As a second air brush.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 24, 2008 11:54 AM

It depends on what kind of airbrush you're looking for. From my experience, not much difference.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Thursday, January 24, 2008 12:01 PM

IMHO there is very little difference in quality or cleaning between a single action or double action provided they are of the same style. There is a perceived quality difference between external mix vs. internal mix airbrushes as the internal style should provide better atomization.

I own both a Badger 100LG double action and their 200-20 single action. The difference is solely in the operation of the airbrush. Both airbrushes require you to depress the trigger to begin the air flow, and in that respect they are identical in operation. The ONLY difference is how you adjust the paint flow. In fact the head assembly and needle tip is identical between the two brushes, and even the needle is the same diameter, though the design of the single action body requires a much longer needle than the double action does. In a pinch I could use the 200's needle in the 100, it would just stick out the back of the handle.

With a double action the trigger is pulled back and that moves the needle back and forth to define the spray pattern. Moving the trigger forward all the way turns off the paint flow, while moving it all the way back provides for a wide pattern. The adjustment of lines is dependent on the position of the trigger between those two extremes. This is analogous to the spray nozzle on your garden hose.

A single action differs in that you manually pre-set the needle to define the spray pattern, and cannot adjust it "on the fly" as you can with a double action. It does take some experimentation to know where to adjust the needle to. The 200-20 includes a calibrated dial to make it easier to adjust accurately, and is considered a "detail" airbrush. It is certainly easier to make consistantly fine lines than the double action (though in truth that's not very hard either).

Put another way it's like the difference between a one speed drill and a variable speed drill. Both can run flat out, but I prefer the variable when I'm using it as a screw gun!

I'm more concerned with the recent spate of recommendations for fine needles with the 100LG series. The fine needle requires very finely ground pigments or inks and is better suited for illustration. I have the 100LG with all three head/needle sizes and have never needed to change out the medium needle. In fact, Badger doesn't recommend the fine needle for oil, enamel, or lacquer mediums. As long as you are using properly thinned acrylics you will likely be fine (pun intended), though I would be more inclined to strain my paints to prevent clogs.

So long folks!

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Neenah, WI
Posted by HawkeyeHobbies on Thursday, January 24, 2008 12:07 PM

Single actions are easier to clean as they only have basically three parts that need cleaning, unlike double actions where you'll occasionally have to teardown and clean the air supply side (button and valve). Paint will creap back along the needle and gum up the works.

Don't let this sway you from looking into a double action, the rewards are worth it. A single action is nothing more than a spray can with a hose and a container to hold the paint...push the button the paint flows...the flow rate is controlled by adjusting the nozzle and air pressure (controlled at the compressor regulator) to the brush...spray pattern is controlled by distance from the object.

The double action allows you to control paint flow by trigger action versus turning the nozzle adjustment. It also allows you to control the amount of air (volume) by pressing the button...the air pressure is still controlled by the regulator on the compressor. 

With a single action each time you press on the button you have the preselected amount of paint flowing from the nozzle just like a spray can offers except the airbrush allows you to adjust this volume whereas you can't with that plastic nozzle atop of the can.

The double action allows you to blow air without spraying paint. The paint doesn't begin to flow until you 'pull' the trigger. This feature helps blow away debris before applying paint as well as aid in drying after paint has been applied. 

Both have their features and benefits. Both have drawbacks but you'll find the double action more versitle and rewarding with use and practice. If your not going to do a lot of 'fine or intrecate' work, then start with a single action. It's a perfect transition from spray can to airbrush choice. If you're ready to enter the advanced realm even as a novice, then look at a double action.

It's like learning to drive a car with an automatic trans, then being asked to drive a stick for your exam. Doable but very difficult. If you had learned to drive a stick and tested in an automatic...it would been a breeze. So, my vote is a double action if it is within your budget.

Speaking of which...HL routinely has 40% off coupons and they do sell airbrushes...Badger, Paasche and Iwata. Whistling [:-^]

 

Gerald "Hawkeye" Voigt

http://hawkeyes-squawkbox.com/

 

 

"Its not the workbench that makes the model, it is the modeler at the workbench."

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Thursday, January 24, 2008 12:54 PM
 HawkeyeHobbies wrote:

Single actions are easier to clean as they only have basically three parts that need cleaning, unlike double actions where you'll occasionally have to teardown and clean the air supply side (button and valve). Paint will creap back along the needle and gum up the works.

 

If paint is creeping past the needle and getting into the airvalve then your needle bearing needs replacing. The only time paint should ever be able to get back into the air valve is on a gravity-feed when people make the mistake of pulling the needle out while paint is still in the color cup. Never do that! Laugh [(-D]

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: Maryland
Posted by usmc1371 on Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:46 PM

Please understand that I'm not disagreeing with Mike but I would like to make a comment on this topic.  I believe the choice between single and double action can also depend on what you plan to use the airbrush for.  Many "professional" modelers, such as Shep Paine and Mike Ashey, use single action brushes.  Shep Paine used a Paasche H as seen in his books.  Mike Ashey used a Badger 200.  Most of the airbrushing work for modeling can be done with a single action.  Another factor overlooked is price.  Many single action airbrushes can purchased for less than a double action of equal quality.  For many, money can be a real issue. 

So basically, I could drive to work in a Lamborghini instead of a Ford, but I can't afford a Lamborghini nor do I really need one.

Then again, if price is an issue, buy an airbrush from Badger's Garage sale.

-Jesse

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Friday, January 25, 2008 12:23 AM
 usmc1371 wrote:

Please understand that I'm not disagreeing with Mike but I would like to make a comment on this topic.  I believe the choice between single and double action can also depend on what you plan to use the airbrush for.  Many "professional" modelers, such as Shep Paine and Mike Ashey, use single action brushes.  Shep Paine used a Paasche H as seen in his books.  Mike Ashey used a Badger 200.  Most of the airbrushing work for modeling can be done with a single action.  Another factor overlooked is price.  Many single action airbrushes can purchased for less than a double action of equal quality.  For many, money can be a real issue. 

So basically, I could drive to work in a Lamborghini instead of a Ford, but I can't afford a Lamborghini nor do I really need one.

Then again, if price is an issue, buy an airbrush from Badger's Garage sale.

-Jesse

That is true Jesse but a single-action is much harder to do precise work with or freehand work as you have no control of the paint once it starts coming out. Wink [;)]

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: Maryland
Posted by usmc1371 on Friday, January 25, 2008 8:18 AM
 MikeV wrote:
 usmc1371 wrote:

Please understand that I'm not disagreeing with Mike but I would like to make a comment on this topic.  I believe the choice between single and double action can also depend on what you plan to use the airbrush for.  Many "professional" modelers, such as Shep Paine and Mike Ashey, use single action brushes.  Shep Paine used a Paasche H as seen in his books.  Mike Ashey used a Badger 200.  Most of the airbrushing work for modeling can be done with a single action.  Another factor overlooked is price.  Many single action airbrushes can purchased for less than a double action of equal quality.  For many, money can be a real issue. 

So basically, I could drive to work in a Lamborghini instead of a Ford, but I can't afford a Lamborghini nor do I really need one.

Then again, if price is an issue, buy an airbrush from Badger's Garage sale.

-Jesse

That is true Jesse but a single-action is much harder to do precise work with or freehand work as you have no control of the paint once it starts coming out. Wink [;)]

Mike,

What kind of "precise work" are you referring to?  I'm no airbrush or modeling expert by FAR, but I've done freehand camo work with a single action airbrush.  But let me clarify what I model.  I usually model US World War II armor or modern armor.  Maybe that type of modelling doesn't require "precise work".  So what would be "precise work"?

Jesse

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Southern California, USA
Posted by ABARNE on Friday, January 25, 2008 3:02 PM

I use the single action Badger 200NH and Paasche H airbrushes and have easily done free hand camo with each, not only for 1/35 German armor but for the much smaller 1/72 variety.  That should be precise enough for 99% of modeling needs.

I never developed enough skill with a double action to know all of their advantages.  I do know that a lot of complex shading and fade effects such as what are done on beautiful motorcycle and lowrider artwork would be a lot easier with a double action.  And some of those effects might be near impossible with a sibgle action.  However when you're building models, I don't think that such effects are particularly relevant.  As long as your AB can spray a narrow line (which both my single actions can), you're good to go.

Andy

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Friday, January 25, 2008 6:17 PM
 usmc1371 wrote:
 MikeV wrote:
 usmc1371 wrote:

Please understand that I'm not disagreeing with Mike but I would like to make a comment on this topic.  I believe the choice between single and double action can also depend on what you plan to use the airbrush for.  Many "professional" modelers, such as Shep Paine and Mike Ashey, use single action brushes.  Shep Paine used a Paasche H as seen in his books.  Mike Ashey used a Badger 200.  Most of the airbrushing work for modeling can be done with a single action.  Another factor overlooked is price.  Many single action airbrushes can purchased for less than a double action of equal quality.  For many, money can be a real issue. 

So basically, I could drive to work in a Lamborghini instead of a Ford, but I can't afford a Lamborghini nor do I really need one.

Then again, if price is an issue, buy an airbrush from Badger's Garage sale.

-Jesse

That is true Jesse but a single-action is much harder to do precise work with or freehand work as you have no control of the paint once it starts coming out. Wink [;)]

Mike,

What kind of "precise work" are you referring to?  I'm no airbrush or modeling expert by FAR, but I've done freehand camo work with a single action airbrush.  But let me clarify what I model.  I usually model US World War II armor or modern armor.  Maybe that type of modelling doesn't require "precise work".  So what would be "precise work"?

Jesse

I am referring to airbrushing for instance, freehand camo paint schemes on aircraft.

With a single-action airbrush you have to spray away from the model and then work your paint towards the model as once the paint is set you cannot realistically change it as you are spraying. With a double-action airbrush I can stop the paint flow at any time I desire by simply moving the trigger forward and then start again by moving it back. That is impossible with a single-action airbrush even though many single-actions, such as the Badger 200-20 spray a very small spray pattern.  

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    August 2007
Posted by ben1227 on Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:40 PM
 MikeV wrote:

 

If paint is creeping past the needle and getting into the airvalve then your needle bearing needs replacing. The only time paint should ever be able to get back into the air valve is on a gravity-feed when people make the mistake of pulling the needle out while paint is still in the color cup. Never do that! Laugh [(-D]

Well, I now know why I had gloss red enamel all over the inside of my 100LG. I never knew that pulling the needle out on a gravity feed with paint in the cup would allow paint to leak.

.:On the Bench:. Tamiya 1/72 M6A1-K
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Sunday, January 27, 2008 12:50 AM
 ben1227 wrote:
 MikeV wrote:

 

If paint is creeping past the needle and getting into the airvalve then your needle bearing needs replacing. The only time paint should ever be able to get back into the air valve is on a gravity-feed when people make the mistake of pulling the needle out while paint is still in the color cup. Never do that! Laugh [(-D]

Well, I now know why I had gloss red enamel all over the inside of my 100LG. I never knew that pulling the needle out on a gravity feed with paint in the cup would allow paint to leak.

Ouch! Did it ruin the air valve? Sigh [sigh]

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Wingman_kz on Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:53 AM

 ps1scw wrote:
Is there a significant or marginal difference it difficulty of operation and cleaning of a double action over a single action ab?

Personally, I think a double action is easier to use. Granted, the first few times you use it your trigger finger may be a little jumpy but it doesn't take long to get the hang of it. To me, being able to adjust paint flow infinitely at any time with my trigger finger is easier than dialing the needle in or out with my off hand on a single action. Especially since I'm usually holding whatever I'm painting in my off hand. Big Smile [:D]

Single or double action has no bearing on cleaning. What affects cleaning is what you have to do to disassemble/reassemble your brush. Some brushes require wrenches to remove the cap or regulator but most you can take apart with your fingers. To me, it's a little easier to flush out a gravity or side feed brush than a siphon feed but it's really no big deal. The biggest thing is how easy or difficult it is to take apart.

Tony

            

  • Member since
    August 2007
Posted by ben1227 on Sunday, January 27, 2008 10:04 AM
 MikeV wrote:
 ben1227 wrote:
 MikeV wrote:

 

If paint is creeping past the needle and getting into the airvalve then your needle bearing needs replacing. The only time paint should ever be able to get back into the air valve is on a gravity-feed when people make the mistake of pulling the needle out while paint is still in the color cup. Never do that! Laugh [(-D]

Well, I now know why I had gloss red enamel all over the inside of my 100LG. I never knew that pulling the needle out on a gravity feed with paint in the cup would allow paint to leak.

Ouch! Did it ruin the air valve? Sigh [sigh]

I've done that pull the needle out when you're not supposed to thing maybe 5 times. Sign - Oops [#oops] Each time I soaked it in Windex if it was an acryl leak or lacquer thinner if it was Alclad/Enamel/Lacquer. How do I know if I damaged it?

.:On the Bench:. Tamiya 1/72 M6A1-K
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