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Craft Acrylics?

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  • Member since
    September 2003
Posted by mightymax on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 4:56 PM

Try thinning with Future Floor polish. I think you may like the results.

 

Cheers,

Max Bryant

  • Member since
    November 2005
Thanks for the welcome- Delta Ceramcoat for models-and modelling with kids
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 19, 2006 7:01 PM

Bill/Everyone:

Thanks for the welcome. Bill, only you can say for sure, but your 109 looks great from here... I think it should win. Maybe they should have an out of the box/under $20/under 20 hrs category! (Just kidding.) But it does look really nice.

I can certainly understand how most folks would HATE using craft paints, though... they are not nearly as good as those old cans of Humbrol flat enamels. If you're used to model paint and like it, or you like to use a brush, there's certainly no reason to switch to craft paint. You won't like it. And if winning competitions is your goal, then you would probably want to go with the expensive stuff.

 But the original question was, I think, CAN you use craft paint to get a decent finish? I believe you can, but it's certainly not a "dump it in the brush and start shooting" situation. You definately have to play around with Ceramcoat to get it to work, and your techniques will have to be different. But at least your experiments are affordable, and when it works out, a craft paint finish can look really good, at least to my non-competition eyes. This might sound a little daft, but I actually prefer using craft paints more than real model paint. I really do like all the goofing around, researching shades, and mixing my own colors to get just the results I'm after. It's fun!

I'm  not going to show you any of my models just yet. Each one gets a little better, but they all have some sort of little problem that bugs me. I'm still trying to get the preshading/panel lines/sludge wash/pastel weathering bit to turn out right, and I need to upgrade my compressor rig so it's less noisy and doesn't throw water drops. So far, my 1/72 P40 is turning out the best. Most of my moldels are old eBay beaters that I've picked up for cheap... the P40 is missing the exhausts, the Grumman Duck's aluminum finish was less than I'd hoped, and the Airfix F4f had a big crack in the bottom that refused to fill, so it's doing duty as a test platform to try out different shades and techniques. (I really shouldn't be building models anyway... too much work to do!)

Still, I really want to try your 25/75 thinner, as I've only used washer fluid so far and occasionally overthinned. Craft paints do seem to be less forgiving. I'm also curious if inexpensive eBay/discount store tube watercolor paints could be used to tint and shade Ceramcoat. I figure the pigments would be a great deal finer and more concentrated than most craft paints. Maybe even watercolor paint and Future... the Future might give it enough bite to adhere to plastic. I'd guess it'd be too glossy, though if one normally overcoats your entire model with Future before setting your decals, it wouldn't matter. Lately I've been spot-coating only the decal areas with Future, though... I just love that Ceramcoat flat! 

Then there are several primers that I want to try... too many experiments!

I did manage a bit of a milestone, though... I finally persuaded my 11 year old son to try a real plastic model, requiring paint and glue (So far he hasn't had the patience for anything more challenging than prepainted, snap together models that can be finished in an evening.) We built a Star Wars B-wing model... he did much of the airbrushing and gluing, and it was a fun, quick build that didn't require a lot of fussing. We finished it today. For a first model, it turned out pretty good, if you can overlook the overspray, gaps, poor fits, and general low-end of most beginners models. (Come to think of it, that describes nearly ALL of my models[;-)]But he's pleased with it, which is the main thing. He might even try some others... as long as they're Star Wars! I think I got far more out of the whole thing than he did, 'cause I remember building models with my father all those years ago.

Anyhow, thanks for the welcome... happy building!

BG

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:54 PM

Hi BPG, welcome to the forum. I use Super Tech blue windshield washer fluid that you can get at Walmart. It comes in a summer and winter formula, the winter formula works well for me. When I first started to play with craft paint, I used only WWF. But, it dried too fast and did not flow well. So I tried adding future into the mix and came up with the 25/75 solution that I now use. The future allows the paint to flow and extends the drying time, so that it is workable. It must also work like a binder, as the paint dries it pulls down tight into the surface details. The Liquitex airbrush medium works better than the WWF mix, but not enough for me to justify the price, the WWF mix is close enough.

You and I are of the same mind set, we model for the fun of the hobby. I don't mind that my models are slightly off color. In fact, I prefer it that way. It allows me to express myself, as art should.

If you want color charts, try e-mailing each company and asking for them. I mostly use Delta and Americana. Americana sent me theirs with one e-mail. Delta took three e-mails, but they finally came through. E-mail them every day, till you get a answer. Both companies were happy to send them out.

Here's a photo of Revell's 1/48th scale Me-109G that I did totally with craft paint. It's not going to win any contests, but I like it.

Take care, Bill

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Newfoundland, Canada
Posted by ZzZGuy on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 8:24 PM
well, i tryed delta craft paint befor and i HATED it with a passion. I do admit i only tryed thinning it with water, but the experence i got with it was just not worth it. I only used it with brushes.

The results from brands such as humbrol for hand brushing, and tamiya/gunze for air brushing far outweigh for me the cheap and (as far as i'm awar) total lack of harmfull fumes, i'd rather spend $150 for parts for a paint booth and take  a weekend to bulid.

But in all honesity, if i was really sort of cash i would very seriously look at delta craft as there are ways to get fairly good results (one guy uses whiper fluid as part of the thinner for delta i do belive).

Mongol General: Conan, What is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven befor you, and hear the lamentations of the woman!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 6:47 PM

... And I thought I was the only one crazy enough to use craft paint on models!

I use craft paints exclusively, but I'm kind of a hack. I don't build "good" models... mostly out of the box, inexpensive planes... just for fun. Spending tons of money on a model isn't fun for me. (neither is hyperdetailing or spending hours and hours on a single model, but that's another matter.)

But I DO like to get good results, and I can with craft paints... so much so that I've thought of trying to pitch a magazine article on the subject. Here's the lowdown of what I've found.

All craft paints aren't equal, but they are similar. At our local Hobby Lobby, I can buy Americana, Delta Ceramcoat, Anitas, and Apple Barrel. Some, like the Anitas, are ridiculously cheap... .49 cents each. The Ceramcoat is almost double that at .87 cents each... still far less than a single bottle of model paint. Real model paint is going to perform better than craft paint... it isn't the exact same stuff in a different container. But craft paint can work, and sometimes it can work really well.

On to my experiments. I've found that the Anitas is the poorest performer of all that I've tried. It's usually thicker, and gives less coverage than more expensive craft paints, even after multiple coats. Forget brushing with Anitas, you'll tear your hair out. Airbrushing requires multiple coats to get an even finish, and the pigments are often coarse. A few Anitas colors did seem to work a little better than the others, but it's really hit-or-miss. I have bought some Anitas, though, and dumped the paint just to use the bottles to hold thinned airbrush-ready solutions. A grainy dark grey might be good though, for a non-skid surface on a wing walk, for example.

The Ceramcoat is, in general, the best. The pigments are ground finer, and it's less "gloopy" than the others. It can be brushed on, but only with a very good, extra soft brush, and even then it leaves ridges. Thinning reduces the gloop factor, but also the coverage, so it'll require some fiddling around to get a good balance.

An airbrush is almost a necessity for a good, even finish, and when airbrushed the Ceramcoat can look pretty darned good. You have to use a primer, though, as none of the craft paints adhere to bare plastic very well. One advantage to Ceramcoat is that it dries to a dead flat finish, which looks good in scale. Another advantage is that it comes in about 300 colors. A disadvantage is that they do not produce any sort of chip chart that I can find. I've had to make my own by painting little blobs on index cards, then matching the colors up to my chart in the Monogram Color guide (I've only got Volume 1... anyone seen a good color chart that they like that covers all the paints used by the WW2 forces?) Some colors are very nearly a match, with no mixing required. Others, like Zinc Chromate and Olive Drab will have to be mixed (TIP- the Monogram guide said that early AF maint mfrs mixed black and yellow to get olive drab, and it works!)

If anyone else is getting good results with craft paints, I'd like to hear about your experience. I'm especially jazzed about trying some 27/75 Future and washer fluid( thanks Storch and Bipolar Bill) as well as some of the Liquitex Airbrush Medium.

To summarize, craft paints are not as good as real model paints, but they are cheap, easy to find, and fun to play around with. If you botch a batch, no big deal. They can work pretty good, though as Bipolar Bill posted, they almost never cover in one coat. His post has excellent suggestions, like filtering, thinning, and priming. Forget metallics and gloss coats, they're horrid. If you see half-full bottles of Buttercup Blue and Lime Green at a granny-crafter's yard sale, buy them and dump the paint... the bottles are great for storing thinned mixes.

Hope this helps, BPG

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 2, 2003 11:46 PM
Thanks guys, I was going to ask if anyone has done or is doing this. Apperently so, and
with no complaints!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 1, 2003 7:57 PM
bump
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 1, 2003 8:30 AM
I have several bottles of Apple Barrel craft paint...Do you recommend only spraying this paint for use on plastics? Or can you brush it on also? I would really like to use these up...has any one noticed any major color differences between say a "craft" Flat Black and something like MM flat black?
Thanks
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: The Hoosier State
Posted by plasticmod992 on Friday, October 31, 2003 12:56 AM
FSM had an article where a modeler re-finished a toy model using Apple Barrel craft paint thinned with water. I tested Apple Barrel and the Delta brand craft paints thinning them with alcohol. These paints coagulated severely with alcohol, however; distiled water with a drop or 2 of Liquidex Flow-Aid worked well. I tested for fine line application and general spraying. These paints-due to their thicker, larger pigments didn't spray fine lines (1/16in) very well but general spraying was good. I also tested paint film adhesion on a clean scrap of styrene sheet using 3M blue painters, regular masking and Tamiya tapes. All but the Tamiya pulled traces of the paint right off. To improve adhesion qualities I primed, painted again and let it dry for several days. The secound attempt was very good, only the regular masking tape had an affect on the paint. Over all, not bad for craft paint! Wink [;)]
Greg Williams Owner/ Manager Modern Hobbies LLC Indianapolis, IN. IPMS #44084
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 30, 2003 8:00 PM
As far as I know these are "water based" acrylics. I have only used tap water to thin them and had no problems.

James Smile [:)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 30, 2003 7:39 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by JamesDFarrow

I use them all the time. Delta Ceramcoat, and FolkArt are a couple of brands I get. Places like Lewiscraft or Michael's (in Canada) or Hobby Lobby (in the US) sell them. They are (in Canada) about $1.25 for 2 oz plastic bottles. And some colors (black, and white for sure) come in 8 oz sizes. The Delta Ceramcoat white is the best white I have ever found. And they are really, really, thick compared to Tamiya, etc... You can cut these with 75% water and they are still thick enough to cover in one coat.

I do still buy WEM Colourcoats enamels, and Humbrol metallics, etc... but the craft paints can be used on a lot of things. And you save a bundle of loot to boot.

James Smile [:)]


You use just plain tap water to thin not alcohol? I haven't worked with acrylics very much so this is all new to me?
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Maine,USA
Posted by dubix88 on Thursday, October 30, 2003 2:34 PM
HEY,
I use these a little bit and i have never had any problem with them.

Randy
THATS MY VOTE "If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base." -Dave Barry In the words of the great Larry the Cable Guy, "GIT-R-DONE!!!"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 30, 2003 1:24 PM
I use them all the time. Delta Ceramcoat, and FolkArt are a couple of brands I get. Places like Lewiscraft or Michael's (in Canada) or Hobby Lobby (in the US) sell them. They are (in Canada) about $1.25 for 2 oz plastic bottles. And some colors (black, and white for sure) come in 8 oz sizes. The Delta Ceramcoat white is the best white I have ever found. And they are really, really, thick compared to Tamiya, etc... You can cut these with 75% water and they are still thick enough to cover in one coat.

I do still buy WEM Colourcoats enamels, and Humbrol metallics, etc... but the craft paints can be used on a lot of things. And you save a bundle of loot to boot.

James Smile [:)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Craft Acrylics?
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 30, 2003 12:34 PM
A friend told me that he recently started using acylics that you use on crafts, like ceramics or fabrics. He says he uses 99% alcohol to thin them. Has anyone ever heard of doing this? He does still use modelmaster and other paints for car bodys, but he uses these others for interior and other parts. Just wondering if anyone ever heard of this?

Brad
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