Laquer Thinner Vs Paint Thinner? Please Help!

Use lacquer thinner with lacquers, mineral spirits with enamels, or use the proprietary thinner for reducing a given paint or lacquer to spraying viscosity.

Triarius wrote:

Use lacquer thinner with lacquers, mineral spirits with enamels, or use the proprietary thinner for reducing a given paint or lacquer to spraying viscosity.

 I don't get it.. are testors and model master enamels considered "lacquers". And mineral spirits that's paint thinner right?  I guess i'm still confused by this..

Testors Model Master makes (a) Lacquers (b) Enamels (c) acrylics in different ranges.

I guess what Ross is trying to say is: Use the correct thinner for the paint type.

At a pinch, it should be possibe to use lacquer thinners with enamels, but if you use mineral spirits with a lacquer, the usual result is a gelatinous mess and a clogged airbrush.

Phil_H wrote:

Testors Model Master makes (a) Lacquers (b) Enamels (c) acrylics in different ranges. I guess what Ross is trying to say is: Use the correct thinner for the paint type. At a pinch, it should be possibe to use lacquer thinners with enamels, but if you use mineral spirits with a lacquer, the usual result is a gelatinous mess and a clogged airbrush.

 Okay all that I have is enamels. Acrylics are water based paints right? and what are laquers? I always thought enamels and laquers where the same thing.

 So for enamels I should be using "paint thinner"? The enamel paint labels say use 1789 Airbrush Thinner but until I can get back to the hobby store which should I use?

 It seems to me like when I use laquer thinner to thin down my paints I get a faster dry and also I didn't have the fogging problem that I did when I used the paint thinner. Maybe my paint thinner just isn't for use with model paints. It's just over the counter hardware store type paint thinner for oil based/enamel paints.

avadon wrote:

Phil_H wrote: Testors Model Master makes (a) Lacquers (b) Enamels (c) acrylics in different ranges. I guess what Ross is trying to say is: Use the correct thinner for the paint type. At a pinch, it should be possibe to use lacquer thinners with enamels, but if you use mineral spirits with a lacquer, the usual result is a gelatinous mess and a clogged airbrush.  Okay all that I have is enamels. Acrylics are water based paints right? and what are laquers? I always thought enamels and laquers where the same thing.  So for enamels I should be using "paint thinner"? The enamel paint labels say use 1789 Airbrush Thinner but until I can get back to the hobby store which should I use?  It seems to me like when I use laquer thinner to thin down my paints I get a faster dry and also I didn't have the fogging problem that I did when I used the paint thinner. Maybe my paint thinner just isn't for use with model paints. It's just over the counter hardware store type paint thinner for oil based/enamel paints.

Your Model Master enamels should be thinned with Model Master thinner or paint thinner.  You can also use lacquer thinner with enamesl and lacquer based paint.  You can't use enamel thinner to thin lacquer paint.   Acrylics are mostly water based, however there are some that don't react very well to water.   

When you get a blush (fog) on your paint its usually caused by humidity and or your coat is too wet.   

Acrylics are not necessarily water-based—they are acrylic based… Some are water-reduceable (thinned with water), some are alcohol reduceable, some prefer a mixture of the two…

Enamels and lacquers are not the same things. Both are generally reduceable in higher molecular weight organic solvents, but the binders are very different. Lacquers don't cure, they simply dry to form a continuous film, and can be redissolved and reapplied using the same or similar solvent in which they were originally dissolved. Enamels dry (solvent loss) and cure. Curing is a generally irreversible chemical reaction—the coating cannot be redissolved and reapplied without drastic alteration of its properties.

It gets more complicated. Original lacquers were dissolved in alcohol, but the advent of organic chemistry has resulted in a plethora of solvents that can be similarly used. "Lacquer thinner" is a very generic term. Lacquer thinner can and usually does contain a variety of solvents, one of which is often alcohol—it is intended to dissolve any lacquer it may encounter. Some of these solvents may be very incompatible with enamel binders. Most of the solvents used in lacquers and lacquer thinner are highly volatile, and their rapid evaporation results in both the faster drying and fogging you report.

"Paint thinner" is also a generic term. It can be anything from a blend of solvents to relatively pure mineral spirits. The former may give you trouble with scale modeling paints. The latter, mineral spirits, is almost always a universal reducer (thinner) for enamel paints. 

Excellent!!! Thank you for all the help and info. I'm going to copy this to my drive, as this is something that seemed to always confuse me. 

One other question for yah. What is the best technique for laying down enamel clear coats. Do you spray a light coat which doesnt cover first? and then go build up coats? Or do you need to lay down a clear coat that covers each time?

 For example.. should your coat be like fully wet looking or should it have that kinda sprayed/misted look when you do clear coats?

I've been using lacquer thinner as my airbrush thinner of choice for all enamel paints--Floquil, Testors, Pactra, and our own Colourcoats--40 years now. I find I get faster drying times using it. HOWEVER, you have to be careful not to shoot wet coats when airbrushing onto plastic, as lacquer thinner is "hot" and will craze the plastic if laid on wet. Successive light coats laid on relatively dry are the answer.

A number of our customers use a 50/50 mix of paint thinner/lacquer thinner, giving improved drying times with a thinner that isn't quite so "hot."

I would think, however, that you'd want Model Master Airbrush Thinner for your Model Master paints (it works fine with our Colourcoats, too).

And if you want a clear coat that's tough as nails, try Ditzler automotive clear lacquer. You can get additives that allow you to achieve a finish from high gloss to dead flat.

Cheers,

John Snyder, White Ensign Models, http://WhiteEnsignModels.com 

okay i'm still a little confused. When you lay down a gloss coat.. do you lightly pepper the surface or do you lay down a fairly wet coat as in to make full cover each time?  Doest that question make sense?

 Cause i'm wondering if i'm doing it wrong by trying to get a full coat on my first pass with the gloss and i'm wondering if i shouldn't be doing a much lighter mist-coat which builds up to a full gloss coat.

avadon wrote:

okay i'm still a little confused. When you lay down a gloss coat.. do you lightly pepper the surface or do you lay down a fairly wet coat as in to make full cover each time?  Doest that question make sense?  Cause i'm wondering if i'm doing it wrong by trying to get a full coat on my first pass with the gloss and i'm wondering if i shouldn't be doing a much lighter mist-coat which builds up to a full gloss coat.

Usually when working with enamels your first coat should be misted on and let dry for a few minutes (Its called a tac coat, gives your next coats something to hold on to) then you can go to heavier coats.  Make sure you allow a little drying time between coats.  

One more thing- laquer thinner is not something you want to breathe, as was mentioned it's full of organic solvents, so be sure to invest in a decent mask with active filter cartridges.

Thats why I tend to prefer acrylics, plus they don't normally need to be thinned for the airbrush. Otherwise I use laquer thinner for everything.

K.I.S.S.

Enamels and Dullcote/Glosscote. Go to the hardware store. Go to the paint department. Find a gallon of product labled PAINT THINNER. Buy it. Use it.

I've used this stuff for 20 years without a problem for Testors, Model Master, Floquil and Dullcote/Glosscote.

Vallejo and Andrea Acrylics: Go to the pharmacy or grocery store. Find the product labeled DISTILLED WATER. Buy it. Use it.

Either of these products should cost about $2.00 US a gallon and will last for years.

Got money you want to waste? Go tot the hobby store and buy a bottle of AIRBRUSH THINNER at $365.00 a gallobn. ($4.99 for 1.75 oz.)

ajlafleche wrote:

K.I.S.S. Enamels and Dullcote/Glosscote. Go to the hardware store. Go to the paint department. Find a gallon of product labled PAINT THINNER. Buy it. Use it. I've used this stuff for 20 years without a problem for Testors, Model Master, Floquil and Dullcote/Glosscote. Vallejo and Andrea Acrylics: Go to the pharmacy or grocery store. Find the product labeled DISTILLED WATER. Buy it. Use it. Either of these products should cost about $2.00 US a gallon and will last for years. Got money you want to waste? Go tot the hobby store and buy a bottle of AIRBRUSH THINNER at $365.00 a gallobn. ($4.99 for 1.75 oz.)

hehe I just bought a 4.95$ bottle of airbrush thinner, have yet to see any difference between it and the laquer thinner on my enamel :(  but it did make my wallet lighter lol

Glad I looked in here!!! lots of valuable info, thanks guys!!! Got to put my 2 cents in though lol. I recently got back in to building and have used an off the shelf brand enamel thinner for cutting my humbrol enamels and haven't had anyprobs with it so far. As for Laquer thinner I only use it as a final cleaner for my airbrush. Haven't tried mineral spirits for thinning. There is a difference in all these, but generally do the same jobs. Experiment and Practice(x3)!

Cheers, simpilot34