Will MM Lacquer over MM enamel work?

Actually, you can do ANYTHING over ANYTHING, as long as you have let it have time to cure/dry.  If what you are saying is true, I shouldn't be able to spray dullcote over acrylics like has been stated.  

If your bottom coat isn't 'dry' per se and some levels of solvent is still present (though depending on how volitile the solvent is and how thick the layer is, this will occur at a variety of speeds through diffusion/evaporation) , and you put another coat, esp. of a different type of paint/solvent over it, with a different drying times/hotness (i.e. lacquers for example, will dry EXTREMELY FAST) you have the potential for all kinds of havok... or effects.  This is how you get a 'crackle surface', chips, and all other types of stuff, that can be put to work.  One source for orange peeling is having a wet surface under a relatively dry one.   

However, proper time to cure should solve most of the problems.  I've even done enamels over acrylics with lacquers, then more acrylics, then enamel washes, then lacquers again.   All with good effects and no problems.  Why?  I allowed for curing.  If the surface below doesn't have the ability for the solvent to evaporate from the binders and pigments, then you'll get all kinds of reactions (bubbling of the upper surfaces, etc.) 

i have had the same types of problems water based/acrylics if I don't let one surface dry sufficiently (i.e. mixed with an ink/extenders) before the next is put on, of the same type.  So this just isn't a problem related to using paints with different solvents. 

 

 

 

 

 

jhande wrote:

Your problem stems mainly from spraying lacquer over enamel, major no-no. Enamel dries/cures from the inside out, lacquer dries from the outside in. Lacquer is a stronger/hotter paint if you will. The solvent agents will try to disolve and bond with the undercoat, enamel doesn't like that. Actually there's more technical reasons which Ross could probably cover, but as long as you remember not to spray lacquer over enamel you'll be ok. Can do's: Lacquer over lacquer Enamel over lacquer Enamel over lacquer Acrylic over acrylic Acrylic over enamel Haven't tried or heard of the results of acrylic over lacquer or enamel over acrylic.

I have to disagree Jim.

Modelers have been spraying MM enamels on aircraft kits and then spraying Dullcoat lacquer over the enamel. There is a trick to it and it is spraying a couple of light, "dust coats" over the enamel to seal it and protect it from the wetter coats of lacquer.

 

I routinely put lacquer gloss over enamels without any problems.  I have also put MM over enamels without any trouble so I'm not sure I can give you any suggestions regarding the orange peel unless the enamel had not been given enough time to cure.  48 hours for most gloss colors of enamel is almost a must.  Flats are a little more forgiving but always err ont he side of caution.  This also applies to second coats of gloss over gloss.  The undercoat HAS to dry completely before applying anything else.

hkshooter wrote:

Yeah, simple green or Castrol Super Clean. I don't know how you'll do it and not wreck the cockpit though.

Believe me!  I've been wrestling with that very question.  This situation really stinks!  But I've learned my lesson so at least I've got that going for me, which is nice.

In the mean time, I've sort of shelved that project until I get the urge to work on it again.  Last night I started on my Collect-Aire XP-54.  All I can say is thank God for Dremmels and lots of sanding sticks and sandpaper to make parts fit.  And putty too.  The instructions are pretty bad being comprised of a single sketched exploded view.  I've built 1960s era kits with better cockpits than this $150 kit.  I'm just hoping the rest of the build gets better as things progress.  I'm still very excited about it though since it is an incredibly "off the wall" subject!

Eric

Yeah, simple green or Castrol Super Clean. I don't know how you'll do it and not wreck the cockpit though.

Instead of the Simple green method you might consider just sanding the paint smooth and repainting.

hkshooter wrote:

IMHO, the original poster may either 1) Not let the enamel base paint dry long enough or 2) Didn't use coats as light as he thought.

HK, I'd have to agree with you on that.  I let the gloss black enamel cure for about two or three weeks.  That's about how often I can work on my models.  Heck, it might have even been four weeks.  I applied the MM metalizer lacquer in thin coats letting about 15-20 minutes go between coats but I think I just put it on too heavily towards the end.  Now I've got to strip everything!  Grrr!  What I was most upset about was the fact that I stayed up until 2 AM just to botch the paint job.

So Simple Green will stip it off, right? 

Eric

MaxPower wrote:

I very recently applied a lacquer flat coat over a acrylic base (future) with very good results.

People do it all the time. One of the more popular base materials for Alclad is Future, one can read about it around here all the time.

IMHO, the original poster may either 1) Not let the enamel base paint dry long enough or 2) Didn't use coats as light as he thought.

I've sprayed lacquer over enamel many, many times and have never had a problem despite what a no-no it seems to be.

I very recently applied a lacquer flat coat over a acrylic base (future) with very good results.

jhande wrote:

Your problem stems mainly from spraying lacquer over enamel, major no-no. Enamel dries/cures from the inside out, lacquer dries from the outside in. Lacquer is a stronger/hotter paint if you will. The solvent agents will try to disolve and bond with the undercoat, enamel doesn't like that. Actually there's more technical reasons which Ross could probably cover, but as long as you remember not to spray lacquer over enamel you'll be ok. Can do's: Lacquer over lacquer Enamel over lacquer Enamel over lacquer Acrylic over acrylic Acrylic over enamel Haven't tried or heard of the results of acrylic over lacquer or enamel over acrylic.

I have done acrylic over lacquer with success, however, the acrylic does not adhere well to the lacquer. I also have had success with enamels over acrylics which was out of neccessity at the time but seemed to work.

Andy 

Your problem stems mainly from spraying lacquer over enamel, major no-no.

Enamel dries/cures from the inside out, lacquer dries from the outside in. Lacquer is a stronger/hotter paint if you will. The solvent agents will try to disolve and bond with the undercoat, enamel doesn't like that. Actually there's more technical reasons which Ross could probably cover, but as long as you remember not to spray lacquer over enamel you'll be ok.

Can do's:
Lacquer over lacquer
Enamel over lacquer
Enamel over lacquer
Acrylic over acrylic
Acrylic over enamel

Haven't tried or heard of the results of acrylic over lacquer or enamel over acrylic.

Actually, in this case, no there wasn't any pre-existing orange peel effect.  In fact, the gloss black enamel paint had dried to such a mirro-like finish that I was almost saddened to paint over it.  Heck, I've never gotten such a glass-like finish before even when I've tried!  LOL!  Wait...why am I laughing?  I'm stilled cheesed off that I haved to go back and strip everything away now.

But thanks for the info about how the MM metalizers are meant to be used over bare plastic.  I think after this little experience, I'm going to remember that for a long time to come.

Eric

What went wrong is you had orange peel in the gloss paint to begin with. MM metalizers are to be used over bare plastic. They will emphasize any flaws on the surface over which they are applied.