Blow yourself up? Airbrushing with a O2 Tank

Read through this thread and am amazed...as a former law enforcement officer and CDL A Hazmat owner (transported Liquid Natural Gas cross country via semi-tanker) I can say that the thread starter, in trying to rationalize using O2 for airbrushing, is darn lucky he has not become a flaming cinder.  Period.

In high school, many years ago, our shop teacher put some O2 in a small balloon and when we were not expecting it, touched it off with a lit torch.  My ears still ring from the memory and it took a long time for the dust to settle.  Made a believer outa me.  Ask any fireman that has gone to a house fire where someone has O2 bottles on premise...

Use Nitrogen as a first choice and then, if that's not available, use CO2.

I think it is a bad idea. I was one of those chemistry teachers that put lit matches or small pieces of burning wood into a small inverted tube of O2 and the results are impressive. You may want to consider using the propellant cans many manufactures offer. I know they can be a bit expensive but are much cheaper than an emergency room copay. Before I was given a small compresser, I would use about one can a month and payed about five dollars a can. Happy painting.

Chem man

If you want to use compressed gas, do what I did for more than 30 years and use super-dry nitrogen--inert, no need for a water trap, and available at virtually every compressed gas company.

Cheers,

John Snyder, White Ensign Models, http://WhiteEnsignModels.com 

As we all know SH*T HAPPENS...so ship me your stash before it all melts in the minimal risk zone.

Welding metals and plastics are two different animals...metal will disapate any static but plastic will hold it until it reaches critical mass...then...POW. We have a plastics fabrication company near here that always has the fire department and ambulances responding to one accident or another because someone failed to follow procedures. It isn't located in any one specific area of the plant...injection, welding, paint shop and packaging all have their incidents.

Static electricity builds up relatively easy in the environments we ply our hobby. Dry air, dust, paint/thinner fumes, compressed gases, electric motors, lights and yes human influences all play a role that lead to potential disasters. Why fan a fire when you have the option not to. CO2 is used as a fire suppressant...oxygen isn't.

CO2 setup can be sourced from places like Airgas or even beverage supply companies. I scavaged my first one from a bar that went out of business. 

Hopefully you'll heed our advice...hate to read about you as a post about another modeler gone west. 

After doing some reading I realize the main problem is that the airbrush doesnt have a built in flashback arrestor nor a check valve. However a lot of oxy/acet torches don't have flashback arrestors either, they just have checkvalves. But in the unlikely event of a combustion the airbrush doesnt have either and thats probably the greatest danger there. This is something I would love the mythbusters to test cause i'm seriously curious A) just how dangerous inflammable paint fumes can be and B) how dangerous said fumes are with various levels of oxygen present. I am just not interested in testing it myself hehe

Triarius wrote:

avadon wrote:  ajlafleche wrote: If you hadn't agreed to change, you'd be in line for a Darwin Award.  I think the odds of a fire occuring are probably quite unlikely, however all it takes is once to have a very unfun experience, so why risk it. I think it's odd that the pasche hooks up to my 02 regulator, but not to my argon or anything else. It must be that the 02 and C02 have the same male fitting on the end that goes to the device. Accidents are always against the odds—that's why they are accidents. I'm glad you are convinced. In high school, the teacher wanted us to understand why oxidizers are dangerous. He put a lighted match in a two liter beaker, then blew pure oxygen into the beaker. The match exploded. Many finely powdered metals auto-ignite in a pure oxygen atmosphere. Powdered teflon will readily burn in pure oxygen.

I agree that there is a chance of danger, a very small chance. As someone who welds for a living and is around oxy/acet and other gases i'm aware of their capabilities. However taking into effect the very small amounts of oxygen going through an airbrush and the enormity of ventilation we use and the small amount of paint in the air I don't see it as much more dangerous then spray painting with a can indoors. The paint is the fuel and in this case there isn't enough fuel to attain a real explosion or a serious fire. True the oxygen could potentially start a fire say running over a certain metallic or other paint, but the only thing it can burn is the paint and since were dealing with extraordinary small amounts of airborne paints the most you could get would be a puff of flame, enough to scare the airbrush out of your hand, which would immediately kill it's 02 source and the flame would go out probably in less then a second. There isn't enough paint airborne in the room for some giant explosion. And it's not like the fire is going to immediately go into the airbrush up the house and into the tank and explode like a nuclear bomb. lol. If that were the case no one would every oxy acetylene weld.

You would be surprised at how much paint has to be in a room for that kinda boom were thinking about to occur. This is why you wouldn't spray indoors without ventilation with a cup gun and cigarette. At that point we are talking about the kinda 'boom'. The idea that a spark is going to ignite the vapors in the room though just isn't there unless you've literally filled the room with paint fumes to the point there are gas clouds. Then it wouldn't matter much if it's 02 or C02 lol.

Of course not ideal I would still use 02 if I were in a pinch, the fact that i've painted with it for over a month straight running every kinda paint through it tells me that welding is far more dangerous then it. But for the sake of arguement and that .01% chance of charbroiling a model and my eyebrows with a spontaneous ignition i've switched over to running my brush on argon until I can get a real compressor. I just don't want to buy an airbrush compressor and then realize that the airbrush is the only tool in the shop I can run on it lol. I'm looking at a 2-stage 90-120CFM 220V baby. :)

avadon wrote:

ajlafleche wrote: If you hadn't agreed to change, you'd be in line for a Darwin Award.  I think the odds of a fire occuring are probably quite unlikely, however all it takes is once to have a very unfun experience, so why risk it. I think it's odd that the pasche hooks up to my 02 regulator, but not to my argon or anything else. It must be that the 02 and C02 have the same male fitting on the end that goes to the device.

Accidents are always against the odds—that's why they are accidents. I'm glad you are convinced. In high school, the teacher wanted us to understand why oxidizers are dangerous. He put a lighted match in a two liter beaker, then blew pure oxygen into the beaker. The match exploded.

Many finely powdered metals auto-ignite in a pure oxygen atmosphere. Powdered teflon will readily burn in pure oxygen.

ajlafleche wrote:

If you hadn't agreed to change, you'd be in line for a Darwin Award.

 I think the odds of a fire occuring are probably quite unlikely, however all it takes is once to have a very unfun experience, so why risk it. I think it's odd that the pasche hooks up to my 02 regulator, but not to my argon or anything else. It must be that the 02 and C02 have the same male fitting on the end that goes to the device.

The airgas guy is right.

You are blowing an oxidizer through a tube, then mixing it with a flammable aerosol, in an environment where stray static charges are readily available (fan in spray booth, turbulent flow of polar and nonpolar molecules, stray cats, etc.)

You are also increasing the local oxygen concentration in the room. And just blowing increased oxygen concentrations through a fan, even with a shaded pole, is dangerous as hell.

You are already buying compressed gases. Just get a cylinder of carbon dioxide, too. 

Gerald put it to you mildly.  What you're doing is so wrong on so many levels that I had to look up o2 safety to make sure I wasn't missing something.  It's so wrong that you can't even google o2 airbrushing.  Get yourself a time tested air delivery system that's SAFE!

E

in short........STOP, DON'T DO IT, IT'S WRONG.  Seriously, you're going to kill yourself.

E

Adding an additional source of oxidation into any flammable environment is asking for trouble! Fuel to the fire so to speak. You want an inert gas, something that doesn't add to the risk, it remains unchanged or lowers the potential.

Good thing you didn't mix your O2 with vasoline as a lubricant inside your airbrush.

Little explosions are just as hazardous as big ones...once the flashover occurs the potential for it speading is the same...especially inside a home. Better ship me your stash before the unthinkable happens. I'll make sure it finds a good safe home.