OPINIONS?: IWATA...

Well, I read the entire thread... WOW!

I own 2 Badger and one VL. (I have a 175 and a 150 Badger plus the VL.) The VL and the 175 are very similar. These 3 brushes handle everything I need plus they were in my price range.

Parts for Badger can be found at \\www.airbrush-depot.com/?clid=CPPftvWc7pICFRciFQodkHTC3g  also readily available on ebay for cheap. This is a HUGE plus for me.

Buy what you like or what you can afford then practice, practice ,practice. This is the only thing that will make you a skilled airbrush user.

MarkS1 wrote:

MikeV wrote:  keilau wrote: MikeV should know if the Badger sells a male quick disconnect adaptor for their AB. Yes they do and it fits their braided QC hose. I have quick connects on practically all of my 12 Badger airbrushes and also had one on my Iwata Eclipse that I sold. Hey MikeV, Sorry to be a pain, but one more time.  If I get the Iwata female end for the hose and two Iwata male ends, will the Iwata male end fit on the Paasche AB? In short, are the thread sizes on the two ABs (Iwata & Paasche) the same? Thanks.

Mark,

What brand are you talking about when you say, "ends?" 

I do not believe that Paasche and Iwata are the same fitting size but I could be wrong.

All I am familiar with is the Badger quick connect braided hose and Badger sells male ends for Badger/T&C, Iwata, and Paasche individually.  

MikeV wrote:

keilau wrote: MikeV should know if the Badger sells a male quick disconnect adaptor for their AB. Yes they do and it fits their braided QC hose. I have quick connects on practically all of my 12 Badger airbrushes and also had one on my Iwata Eclipse that I sold.

Hey MikeV,

Sorry to be a pain, but one more time.  If I get the Iwata female end for the hose and two Iwata male ends, will the Iwata male end fit on the Paasche AB? In short, are the thread sizes on the two ABs (Iwata & Paasche) the same?

Thanks. 

keilau wrote:

MikeV should know if the Badger sells a male quick disconnect adaptor for their AB.

Yes they do and it fits their braided QC hose.

I have quick connects on practically all of my 12 Badger airbrushes and also had one on my Iwata Eclipse that I sold.

keilau wrote:

Mark, air pressure is air pressure. Yes, it can be made to work together. The quick disconnect is an 1/8" one made by Iwata for their airbrush like this: It is about $10 at HL with their 40% coupon. You can also find many cheap imitations on Ebay. The Paasche adaptor is very cheap, but I have to mail order it from airbrush-depot (part no. PAS AS-192). Shipping is twice the adaptor price. They also sell Iwata style quick disconnect too:

Hey Keilau,

Agreed, which is why I bought an inexpensive ($140) regular 'ol Sears 1hp compressor w/7gal tank rather than the expensive itty-bitty ones that "go" with an airbrush.  But hold the phone.  My disconnect is at the hose end that connects to the compressor/trap, not at the AB end, because having only one AB I never disconnect it from it's hose.

So I guess the real question is what is the thread size at the base of the AB and is it the same as Paasche's? If so, I could buy a female Iwata disconnect for the hose end and two males for the ABs (as shown in your helpful pics) and presto!, I would now properly and more efficently, disconnect the ABs from the hose. Duh!

Doing it the way I was thinking would mean either manually unhooking the hose from the ABs each time or buying a separate hose for the Iwata, neither of which succeeds in the purpose.

Thanks for the help. 

MarkS1 wrote:

keilau wrote: I have a Paasche and recently purchased a Iwata, both with their airhoses. The 1/4" connectors at the compressor end are the same. But they use different connector at the airbrush. I purchased a male quick disconnect adaptor from Paasche which works perfectly with the Iwata quick disconnect female. I now use the same Iwata hose/quick disconnect combo for both the Paasche and Iwata AB. I heard that Badger and Iwata airbrush connector are interchangable. But I don't have any proof. MikeV should know if the Badger sells a male quick disconnect adaptor for their AB. and look at my rig on page 2, about 2/3rds the way down.  One of my pics shows my compressor w/ trap and disconnects. Can you take a look and see if it'll work with what you have? Thanks in advance.

Mark, air pressure is air pressure. Yes, it can be made to work together. The quick disconnect is an 1/8" one made by Iwata for their airbrush like this:

It is about $10 at HL with their 40% coupon. You can also find many cheap imitations on Ebay. The Paasche adaptor is very cheap, but I have to mail order it from airbrush-depot (part no. PAS AS-192). Shipping is twice the adaptor price. They also sell Iwata style quick disconnect too:

http://www.tcpglobal.com/airbrushdepot/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=ABD+TF-117

keilau wrote:

I have a Paasche and recently purchased a Iwata, both with their airhoses. The 1/4" connectors at the compressor end are the same. But they use different connector at the airbrush. I purchased a male quick disconnect adaptor from Paasche which works perfectly with the Iwata quick disconnect female. I now use the same Iwata hose/quick disconnect combo for both the Paasche and Iwata AB. I heard that Badger and Iwata airbrush connector are interchangable. But I don't have any proof. MikeV should know if the Badger sells a male quick disconnect adaptor for their AB.

Hey keilau,

Thanks for the help.  I wonder if it'll work with my universal 1/4" quick-disconnects I got at Home Depot (for a fraction of the cost, btw, $2 for male and about $6 for female ends.). 

Can you do me a favor?  Can you go to the thread "Re: Here is my model building work area. Show us yours!!!!" (in FineScale.com Forums » General Discussion » General Modeling Discussion

and look at my rig on page 2, about 2/3rds the way down.  One of my pics shows my compressor w/ trap and disconnects. Can you take a look and see if it'll work with what you have?

Thanks in advance. 

MarkS1 wrote:

Howeveer, I was told at the art supply place that Badger's have unique fittings/hoses and stupidly, I didn't examine them. What's the scoop on that? My Paasche has standard 1/4" threads and hose fittings that I've converted to universal quick connects.

I have a Paasche and recently purchased a Iwata, both with their airhoses. The 1/4" connectors at the compressor end are the same. But they use different connector at the airbrush. I purchased a male quick disconnect adaptor from Paasche which works perfectly with the Iwata quick disconnect female. I now use the same Iwata hose/quick disconnect combo for both the Paasche and Iwata AB.

I heard that Badger and Iwata airbrush connector are interchangable. But I don't have any proof. MikeV should know if the Badger sells a male quick disconnect adaptor for their AB.

MikeV wrote:

That is entirely the vendors fault and not Badger Airbrush's fault. I talked to Ken about this several months back I was told that these suppliers wait until their stock is almost empty of Badger airbrushes and then call Badger and want big supplies right now. Sorry, it is not that easy!

Hey MikeV,

I'm so glad we agree, although I don't profess to know as much as you 'cause like I said, "could be....whatever".   I wouldn't be a bit surprised any unavailibility is a function of deliberately low inventories as the competition is high and customer loyalty and margins are low.  I guess this is the tradeoff for the convenience and low prices of internet shopping.  I recently was in the best and oldest art supply house in Ft. Lauderdale for the first time in years and noticed it doesn't carry as much or have the quality help it did in the past. My guess is it's falling behind in the internet age.

Haven't made the buy yet and am still considering Badger. I saw a 100 series at a hobby shop that impressed me with its quality and precision. Especially since someone here told me Badgers will take my Paasche cups and bottles.  Howeveer, I was told at the art supply place that Badger's have unique fittings/hoses and stupidly, I didn't examine them. What's the scoop on that? My Paasche has standard 1/4" threads and hose fittings that I've converted to universal quick connects. 

Will take your comments under advisement.

Thanks again. 

MikeV wrote:

keilau wrote: The warning about Iwata parts is misleading. Actually it is not! Wait until you need a new head assembly or other work where you need to send the airbrush in. Iwata makes a fine airbrush but they are very pricey on parts and their service is nowhere near as good as Badger but we all have our favorites and I am not going to bad mouth any other well made airbrush. Use what you like, like what you use!

I stand by my statement. Iwata parts are cheap and readily available at Hobby Lobby. I do not yet find a local shop that carries Badger parts. And the Badger web site is "under construction". (There may be one. But no one will know about it if Badger does not have the information.) It may not be a problem for people in big cities like NY or Chicago to find a Badger dealer, but it is not that easy in a mid size city like St. Louis. Mail order is not practical for small and cheap replacement parts such nozzle and needle.

I am not a professional artist. When I need a new head assembly, I probably will pitch my broken AB and buy a new one for less than $100. I don't use AB enough to have a "favorite". "I am not going to bad mouth any other well made airbrush. Use what you like, like what you use!" I can't agree with you more.

MarkS1 wrote:

Regarding Iwata vs. Badger availabilty I found the opposite to be true.  Seems many online stores, www.Dixieart.com , for example, have Iwata stuff readily available whereas it warns there may be delays in shipping Badger.  This could simply mean the Badger stuff is more popular and demand is higher, whatever.

That is entirely the vendors fault and not Badger Airbrush's fault.

I talked to Ken about this several months back I was told that these suppliers wait until their stock is almost empty of Badger airbrushes and then call Badger and want big supplies right now. Sorry, it is not that easy!   

keilau wrote:

The warning about Iwata parts is misleading.

Actually it is not! Wait until you need a new head assembly or other work where you need to send the airbrush in. Iwata makes a fine airbrush but they are very pricey on parts and their service is nowhere near as good as Badger but we all have our favorites and I am not going to bad mouth any other well made airbrush. Use what you like, like what you use!

Hey hkshooter,

Thanks for the input.  Yeah, since we're all mostly grownups around here I think we've established we all recognize the limits to improvement a tool will make to our efforts. :)  Buying a $350 AB isn't going to make me a superb painter by itself either and I certainly never thought it would.  I learned that lesson years ago with all kinds of tools.  I just wish all those 60-something old hippies driving $60k+, 400hp sportscars like their wives down here would get it. :)

Funny thing about this whole "debate" is that one can buy high quality (at least high enough for our purposes) ABs from any of the manufactuers for under $100, the same as I paid for my Paasche outfit 18 years ago.  That means, like all good products, they have improved in quality while dropping in price in real dollars.  So what's the beef?  It was never about cost vs. benefit but partisan personal preferences. This entire episode is akin to good 'ol boys coming to blows over whether one's Ford is better than another's Chevy.

Regarding Iwata vs. Badger availabilty I found the opposite to be true.  Seems many online stores, www.Dixieart.com , for example, have Iwata stuff readily available whereas it warns there may be delays in shipping Badger.  This could simply mean the Badger stuff is more popular and demand is higher, whatever.  As to expensive parts, from what I've seen so far they all rate pretty good, except my Paasche.  It's odd, but I can rebuild my Paasche part-by-part for about 2/3's the cost of buying it new. 

Thanks again. 

hkshooter wrote:

All that being said, back to the original post. You can't go wrong with Iwata. But I'll warn you that should you need parts you will spend tons more on the Jap parts and they will be harder to find. There is a great benefit to the Badger T/C line. They are a better value, parts are more common and less expensive and the support offered by the company is nearly everywhere. Either directly or through people like our own Mike V. All that is worth more than the original cost of the brush.

I found ALL the Iwata parts that I needed at Hobby Lobby. Using the 40% coupon, the Iwata parts are cheaper than even Chinese AB parts because I don't have to pay shipping. Yes, the Iwata parts choice are limited at HL, but enough for most modelers. They also carry Paasche parts too.

The warning about Iwata parts is misleading.

MikeV wrote:

Jodet wrote: Save yourself the cost of future upgrades - buy the best now~!     The "best?" The best is what works for each individual not any particular brand. Come on people! Get a clue already!

Maybe he should have said "Buy the best you can afford."

I don't have a favorite, per se. I agree with Mike nearly 100% and I use Iwata. I have nothing against any other AB but there are others that I'll not spend money on. Microns are right at the top of the list. If my modelling mentor had been using any other brand I'm sure I'd have used that one instead of Iwata. But as it is I'm Iwata heavy and don't intend to rearm with anything else. The benefits to me would be nil and the cost would be prohibitive. And besides, I don't have the skill to fully realize the capabilities of the AB's I have already. No way I could benefit from a $350 AB or one just like it for 1/4 the cost.

All that being said, back to the original post. You can't go wrong with Iwata. But I'll warn you that should you need parts you will spend tons more on the Jap parts and they will be harder to find. There is a great benefit to the Badger T/C line. They are a better value, parts are more common and less expensive and the support offered by the company is nearly everywhere. Either directly or through people like our own Mike V. All that is worth more than the original cost of the brush.

And as a bit of a funny side note, the mentor I mentioned recently dumped his Iwata CR in favor of a new T/C. 

Sweet!,

Glad you made a choice Mark and I know it will all work out for you in the end after lots of practice. I like the point you made on how you aren't using it to try and make a living, just to try and have a little fun. Good luck to you.

Regards,

Jeff 

Hey,

Thanks for the help.  Of course talent rules over tools, anyone who's lived awhile knows that. :) Still, quality tools can make a difference. But I don't think the $300 units will bring any advantage over the $100 units in the type of work we're doing and God knows, I ain't using it to make a living like an artist.  Thanks for the heads up on the preset handle, will check it out.

Hey,

Thanks for the input, that's a lot of airbrushes!  I'd guess you know.  It looked like the Iwata has a 1/4" hose fitting, same as the Paasche.  But I use quick disconnects anyway.  Well, I'm not ready to make the buy and am open to info.  My guess is any of the better units do outstanding work.

Thanks again. 

Hey Mark,  if you are set on an Iwata, that's fine.  However, be advised that they do not use the same fittings on the air hose as the Passche.  An adapter would still be required unless you are using universal quick disconnects.  The Badger will accept the Paasche cups and bottles.  That's the route that I take as the Paasche bottles and cups are cheaper although the Badger bottles and cups have a nicer finish and feel.  The Badger Renegade is supposed to be the latest and greatest of the fine airbrushes and is enjoying good reviews by the airbrush artists on Airbrush.com.  My wife and daughter may get me one for Father's Day.  Bearair has free shipping on them until June first and the Renegades are on sale.  Another Badger choice is the 100lg.  Absolutely outstanding performance for the price.  And yes, I own four Iwata's, two Paasche's, and 15 Badger's.  It's a long story spanning 29 years and a Garage Sale.

E

Hey All,

Thanks for all the replies and input.  Since I started this thread with a request for opinions based on experience about Iwata's functionality I must say I'm a little disappointed it's degenerated into the same 'ol tired Ford vs. Chevy feud.  That's not what I asked because the "best" of anything, a relative term at most, means nothing except wasted money in the hands of an unskilled user and a skilled user can do wonders with anything.  And there's always the self-appointed expert who deigns to set everyone straight about such blindingly obvious distinctions as if the mostly old farts like me around here didn't know any better.

I'm not without experience with airbrushes, in fact, I've owned my Paasche VL for almost 20 years and have done some respectable work with it and always thought it adequate.  Until I recently got to handle some Iwatas and Badgers after starting this thread.

First thing I noticed was the Iwata's action was way smoother, precise and has a more even pull than my paasche.  The next was the needle is better supported and centered and remains so throughout the action's travel. And the overall tooling of the unit seems of a higher quality and precision.  Same for the better Badgers I examined which I'm sure do excellent work as well based on the reports I read here.  Downside for me with the Iwata is it has no set-wheel to hold the needle open at a given point, which I like on my Paasche. The Badgers have it.  But the clincher is the Iwata can use all the same hoses and fittings and will accept my Paasche cups and bottles whereas the Badger would require a complete duplication of accessories and changeout if I want to switch airbrushes mid-session.  So, I guess I'd just have to get better at holding the needle steady. 

And given that the particular Eclipse models I'm looking at are under or just above $100 they are probably less in today's dollars as what I paid for my Paasche 18 years ago. 

Going to get me an Iwata. 

Thanks, guys.

Gents,

This argument is like the eternal "what is the right amount of weathering" discussion. Everyone has an opinion and everyone's right. Let's agree to disagree, step back from the personal antagonism, realize that your personal choice of airbrush is "the best" for you, and respect other people's decision to use what they like. I've used several, some I liked and some I didn't, but I almost always come back to one because I know the results I'm going to get with it.

Also, the moderators here are the only ones who will give warnings. Let this be one.

MikeV wrote:

Jodet wrote: "Come on people! Get a clue already! " Ah, the personal attacks begin already.   Nice forum you've got here.  I have lots of clues, you apparently don't have much personality or the ability to be anything but very literal. First warning.     Personal attacks? What are you smoking?  Calling someone's bluff when they make a statement that one brand of airbrush is, "the best" is not a personal attack. If you like one brand more than another than more power to you, but making blanket statements that have no basis in fact doesn't fly with those of us who actually know airbrushes.   Warning? You amuse me newbie!

Both of you, stop it!

Gah, the infernal and internal Iwata vs. Badger argument! Fact is both brands make excellent airbrushes and stating one is better than the other is quite as silly as claiming Ford is better than Chevy or vice versa.

Jodet makes a good point about buying the top of the line airbrush. The difference in money is comparatively small considering many of us will easily spend the difference between a "low" end Iwata or a "high" end Badger or Iwata on a single kit.

Mike makes a good point that it matters not the tool, but the talent in the hands. 

Giving each other warnings and resorting to Newbie name calling isn't helping anyone out, and certainly doesn't foster a feeling of brotherhood on the forums.

All that said, I believe that $70 is an ample amount to spend on an airbrush. Very few of us on these forums requires a high end airbrush. You can get either the Badger 100LG or the Iwata Revolution CR with only a $1 difference between them from Dixie Art. I'll bet that same $1 that you would be hard pressed to tell the difference in use.

IMHO Badger, being US made, is easier and cheaper to get parts for. Full disclosure, I own three different Badgers (200-20, 150 and 100LG) and a T&C Omni 4000. 

MikeV wrote:

firesmacker wrote: I love Mike Huh? You been drinking Firesmacker?

I spent all day cooking a 6 LB pork roastr on the rotiserrie and 10 Lbs of ribs and about 90 drumettes in the smoker. So, yeah.

firesmacker wrote:

I love Mike

Huh? You been drinking Firesmacker?

Jodet wrote:

"Come on people! Get a clue already! " Ah, the personal attacks begin already.   Nice forum you've got here.  I have lots of clues, you apparently don't have much personality or the ability to be anything but very literal. First warning.

Personal attacks? What are you smoking? 

Calling someone's bluff when they make a statement that one brand of airbrush is, "the best" is not a personal attack. If you like one brand more than another than more power to you, but making blanket statements that have no basis in fact doesn't fly with those of us who actually know airbrushes.  

Warning?

You amuse me newbie!  

"Come on people! Get a clue already! "

Ah, the personal attacks begin already.   Nice forum you've got here. 

I have lots of clues, you apparently don't have much personality or the ability to be anything but very literal.

First warning.