White Decal Paper

Update:

I finally obtained the Micromark decal papers - white and clear - and immediately tried the white with printed black background.  The white decal film seems definitely thinner than the Bare Metal Foil white, but still has some thickness to it.  The printing on the reverse side of the paper leads me to believe Bare Metal Foil's white decal paper is re-packaged Micromart, or maybe they are obtained from the same supplier?  Almost identical back-side printing.

I also used both Micro-Set and Micro-Sol (in that order) and got improved results on the lay of the decal however, the Micro-Sol caused the black ink to break up.  This was with 2 coats of Krylon Crystal Clear on top.  I'll recoat the decal sheet with Krylon and try again, maybe I was a little lite?  I also noticed that the edges of the black blended with the background black pretty well, without any white decal film showing - except on some edges where the micro-sol break-up was more evident and I attribute the white edge to that occurring.  Hopefully with another coat of the sealant, I can reduce this black ink disintegration.

I do wish to report on the positive side: the Micromart white definitely blocks out more of the black background color!  Yes, there is still some slight show-thru but only if you are really looking for it.

So it seems like I am experiencing everything you all are reporting.  "No more negative waves Moriarty!"

jgeratic

Some printers and their inks might be more touchy than others, and it seems that the quality of paper setting on a given machine can have varying results.  I've also seen it mentioned that the finest setting is not always best either. 

I believe this is the essential problem. My experience has shown that slightly different ink "formulas," for lack of a better term, may be found in even the same manufacturer's products, depending on what different model one may be using. Terribly frustrating until one lucks into the right combination.

There is blank decal paper sold for laser printers and copiers. I have used it a lot.  I have a cheap monochrome laser printer. I use it for printing emails and such because its toner is cheaper than inkjet ink.  However, I also use it for black only decals. It does not have the coating problem t hat inkjet inks do. It still needs to be coated with a waterproof coating, but the toner will not dissolve in the coating like some inkjet inks do.  The laser copier/printer decal sheets come in clear and in white, just like the inkjet sheets.  Micro Mark and Bare Metal Foil sell all four kinds, as do many other sources.  Laser decal sheets used to be a bit cheaper than inkjet sheets- now they are all same price.

However, some of the faster laser printers/copiers- the ones in most copy shops now, run at a higher temp and will damage the decal sheets.  So cheaper home printers still work well, but fewer and fewer of the copy shops have the old low temp laser machines. It was nice while it lasted- I used to make all my homemade decals that way- run them through color copiers at one of the local shops. After last local shop went to high speed copier I had to learn to make inkjet decals for color (I don't want to spend the money for a color laser printer- a monochrome laser is the same price as a cheap inkjet printer. I bought my most recent one when the old one needed toner.  The new one was on sale for the same price as a toner cartridge for the old one (those toner cartridges print a LOT of sheets, though).

I have tried coating decal paper in the past (both gloss and flat), due to the printer ink beading, but it only made it worse.

As Don has said, there is a special coating on the paper that helps hold ink.  If we could find what exactly this formula is, and if it is available on the market, problem would be solved - or at least hope it would be.

Some printers and their inks might be more touchy than others, and it seems that the quality of paper setting on a given machine can have varying results.  I've also seen it mentioned that the finest setting is not always best either.  

regards,

Jack

Don  --

I suppose the heat of a laser printer would cause additional problems for the paint even if put through (a rear - no roller) paper tray?

Otherwise - still waiting to hear back from fantasy Printshop, which may end up as my alternative...

Inkjet printing will not stick to regular paint- at least not glossy paint- not sure it will even stick to flats.  The inkjet paper has a special coating to absorb and hold the ink.  Also, some paints tend to be pretty brittle, and if  your printer is one that bends the paper around a roller 180 degrees the paint may crack or chip.

Jack  --

Just had a thought - What if I were to take the white or clear decal paper, airbrush it with a gloss white, THEN put it through the inkjet/laser to print the black background.  Have you heard of this being done? Could it be that simple???

I do recall a craft store brand of dry transfers called Letraset.

Here is an online chart of their available typefaces and sizes/colours:

regards,

Jack

Jack  --

Real good find!  That may do - I've emailed them on the size of the sheet and the size of the patches.

I would imagine if they are producing this type "fix", they probably found something that was worth the time, effort and makes profit, so I'll probably give them a try.  Just waiting for the return email so I know how many to get, ect.

I'm certain I have seen full sheets of Black and White decal material at a local Art Store that has since closed.  It was kept with their C-Thru transfers, but was water slide.  Dry transfers would be the other option but with all the ones available, I have not seen what I need in the font and size required.  But I may drop by their web site as well, if it is still there.

Do you know of any DIY dry transfer processes out there?  Or some reasonable companies that produce custom made ones?

Thanks!

Happy Memorial Day!!!

The test pic was taken the following day, so it was quite dry.

I can't find a homepage for Xtradecal either.  I might be wrong, but I think they work exclusively through Hannants, or possibly even be a brand created by them.  

If you are considering an already printed decal that might have some available white space to use, obtaining an RAF roundel set might be an idea as some companies do print the central red dot separately.  This gives you a lot more white to work with.  Now Xtradecal doesn't do it like that, but I know Aeromaster does.

I've never tried them,but fantasyprintshop out in the UK does have some preshaped white backing decals that could be your answer:

This reminded me of another option.  I recall the 1/48 Tamiya Spitfire Mk.I kit had a set of white backing decals.  Try to find someone with this kit that doesn't plan to use them, or conversely has built but has placed that particular set of decals in their spares box.

regards,

Jack

orbitboy

Don  --

I think I'll give the MicroMark paper a try at least.  When you trim the decal (say a white on black as I am doing) do you trim the decal as close to the white as possible or leave a generally broader border?

The closer I trim the more difficult it will become to "under-paint" the decal area white.

In general, do you find the decals from this DIY process to be thicker than those commonly supplied in a kit?  I've seen home made Decals that look like they were painted on (very thin carrier) as well as some that so thick they look like they were made on label paper.

Looking to minimize that aspect as well.  In that regard, any particular product you like that are thin on the carrier?

I used to trim as close as possible to the graphic or lettering, and still do on clear paper.  however, on some of the white paper the white color is pretty thick and can leave a slight white edge visible around the decal.  So on white decals I trim a little further away so I can touch up with background color on small brush or toothpick.

Jack  --

The XtraDecal RAF white looks pretty good!  Micromark looks practically transparent if we we're doing a side by side.  Now, I'm not talking about the transparency of the white on the RAF, but how "white" the white looks on the black can - that is pretty good!  The Micromark looks grey - even doubled up.  I don't know, were the MicroMark white squares still wet when you took the photo, or dry?

So, If I could find a small page of white decal from XtraDecal, I could simply print the black background on it and seal - but I can't even find a home page for them - are they owned by someone else?  The closest I've come is Hannant's in the UK.  Do you have any info on where to find their offerings?

Just my 2 cents, but I'd leave some border around the actual image.  After the decal has set, brush on some future, let dry  and then lightly sand the edges down.  You'll see if there is "step" between the decal and the model surface by shiny spots.  If there is, repeat the future and sanding till the shine is gone.

Anyhow, here is a pic of the test I did.  No surface prep on the spray can  and I didn't bother blotting out the air bubbles.  To the bottom right you can see the Xtradecal in the form of an RAF tri-colour insignia.

regards,

Jack

Don  --

I think I'll give the MicroMark paper a try at least.  When you trim the decal (say a white on black as I am doing) do you trim the decal as close to the white as possible or leave a generally broader border?

The closer I trim the more difficult it will become to "under-paint" the decal area white.

In general, do you find the decals from this DIY process to be thicker than those commonly supplied in a kit?  I've seen home made Decals that look like they were painted on (very thin carrier) as well as some that so thick they look like they were made on label paper.

Looking to minimize that aspect as well.  In that regard, any particular product you like that are thin on the carrier?

I have used the Micro Mark white decal paper and been quite satisfied with it. I have tried several brands- certainly not ALL- and it is as good if not better than most I have tried. It is pretty opaque.  The big problem of course with white decal paper is matching the background color exactly, but black seems to be the easiest color to match :-)  My black decals (white on black) have always looked very nice.

Well I've never tried these decals over black, so I did an experiment.

There was a spray can on my desk with a black label and white print.   I placed a left over piece of white decal over this area.  Unfortunately, they are not bullet proof.  Even with a second decal over top, it was still translucent enough to see some print.  

I next took, as a comparison, a section of xtradecal that contained white.  Although I could see some semblance of the print, it was more opaque.  

I have doubts now that there is any such decal paper on the market that would solve your problem.  Thing is actual printed decals have white printed over top the film, and quite often it is done as a double pass to make certain of the opacity.  

So yea, Micro-Mark isn't the answer, sorry.

regards,

Jack

Jack --

Thanks for the lead - do you believe the MicroMark white paper to be more "opaque"

than some of the others, in your experience?

Either way, I may have to mask and paint.  Was trying to avoid the process if I could.

Not lazy, just concerned about margins if I paint white.  Decal borders are limited and I

was hoping to keep it that way....  

What about the thickness of the MicroMark white?  The material I have now is thick

enough that it looks like the decal is on a piece of tape.  Very obvious...

I've used Micro-Mark decal paper, had good results with that brand.

Depending on the shape of the outline, have you thought of masking and spraying white paint and then placing the decal over this?

regards,

Jack