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Decal Making and Inkjet Printers

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  • Member since
    July 2003
Decal Making and Inkjet Printers
Posted by schulerwb24 on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 12:21 PM
Since our local print shops and all office supply stores have had some very bad and expensive experiences with printing decals and other off beat items for customers, they have decided that they will no longer do any decal printing on their laser copiers. So, I had to adapt or die. We had purchased an HP PSC 1210v color inkjet printer for my wife to make color copies of our pictures so I decided to practice making decals on that before I spent big bucks on a laser printer. Glad I did. I purchased a few sheets of Micro Mark laser decal paper and their fixative and gave it a try. Wow, did that work better than expected. This printer will scan or copy onto decal paper with no problem, and I am learning how to manipulate scanned pictures so that I am now able to duplicate just about anything I want.

So, seeing this would work, I decided to do some experimentation with two other decal papers; Micro Mark laser paper and Testors new decal paper. I loved making decals with laser decal sheets because there was no need to overcoat with a fixative. Not being a fan of fixatives because of bad experiences in the past with them turning yellow, I decided to try two other methods of sealing decals I have had good luck with along with the two decal papers. There was a clear, unexpected, winner.

Here is what was used in the experiments:
Paper:
Micro Mark clear and white inkjet paper
Testors clear and white inkjet paper
Micro Mark clear and white laser paper
Fixatives:
Micro Mark fixative (6 oz. can of Krylon crystal clear, that’s what they sent)
Testors Spray Fixative (suspect it is Krylon, smells, looks, and acts the
same)
Microscale Liquid Decal Film
Future Floor Wax

Results:
Micro Mark laser paper- do not use under any circumstances- print bleeds
and will not stay, any fixative only makes it worse.
Micro Mark clear and white papers- excellent results using Krylon clear, use
2 light coats. It did not like Microscale or Future.
Testors clear and white- surprise!, this was the best. Will take Krylon,
Testors, Microscale, and Future as a fixative with no adverse
results. One heavy coat will work, but found it best to put two
lighter coats instead.

Both Micro and Testors decal paper go on beautifully, lay well, most times do not really need setting solution. I exclusively use Future as an undercoat, “setting solution”, and overcoat and they both work great with Future. I have made letters with font size down below 2 and they printed clear and very readable. The only fault I can find is my printer tends to print one shade lighter than the original on some things and whites and yellows applied over black or dark blue tend to be not opaque. I think this is the way the printer puts the ink on the paper and is not the paper’s fault.

The Testors paper comes in 5 ½ x 8 ½ sheets, or ½ sheets, Micro comes in 8 ½ x 11, full sheets. If you compare the Micro 5 sheets package plus postage versus the Testors 6 half sheet package, the cost is a wash. If you bought Micro’s 25 sheet package, it gets considerably cheaper. But, the convenience of picking up the Testors at the local Hobby Lobby and its advantages with various fixatives makes it my top choice.

So, hope this helps you out with your decaling projects, I know it really expanded my ability to make decals. Now, does anyone want to by some laser decal paper, cheap?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 13, 2005 2:08 PM
How did you apply the Future as a fixative?
Thanks, wikksmith
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 13, 2005 2:33 PM
One thing I might add is ensure that the ink on the paper is completely dry (2 to 3 days) befor applying an overcoat. I learned the hard way that the ink will smear if not totally dry. I have followed the same steps that shuler has done with a HP inkjet printer and I also recommend it highly. The only thing I can not print is white so I use white decal paper when it is needed with good results.

Shuler, thanks for the tip.

Wik, use it in an airbrush and it will work good.

Richard
  • Member since
    July 2003
Posted by schulerwb24 on Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:19 PM
wikksmith;
I just use a #2 brush for enamals/acrylics. Load the brush about half way up the bristles straight from the bottle. Then apply like paint in even strokes, keeping your strokes in one direction. Try not to go over it once you have applied it or you get a streaked appearance. However, going over and getting the steaked appearance does not effect the decal going on. Any over coat seems to fix it. ( I use the Future system exclusively for all decal applications- coat of Future, place decal, cover with Future. finish with Future for gloss, Humbrol or Floquil for flat finish after a week or more dry time for the Future. )

Note: the brush I use for Future application is dedicated just for that. I clean it out with water after each use or if it sits for a period of time while I am using it and it starts to become stiff, I will clean it up. I periodically clean it in drug store bought denatured alcohol to remove any dried Future or if the brush is getting stiff.

Note also: I have brushes dedicated for applying Micro Film and any decal set.
I clean these from dedicated little bottles of lacquer thinner followed by a water wash when I clean them. Keeping all brushes dedicated to these tasks and cleaned with dedicated cleaners is paramount in making sure you don't end up covering your one-only-can't-get-another-one decals with a funky color when you apply your sealing coat.

RSaddlemire- totally agree withyou, let everything dry for a few days or up to a week for best results, especially if you have put a lot of color on the decals. Patience pays big dividends.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Harrisburg, PA
Posted by Lufbery on Thursday, January 27, 2005 1:33 PM
Schuler,

Thanks for the information. I had some great luck with the Testors paper and decal fixing solution. However, I found that I had to have light colored paint under the decal for it to show.

Here are a couple photos showing the wood grain decals I made:
.

.

.
I painted the cocpit floors radome tan, coated them with Future, and then put the decals on.

Regards,

-Drew

Build what you like; like what you build.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: West Des Moines, IA USA
Posted by jridge on Thursday, January 27, 2005 4:11 PM
Which print shop/office supply store is giving you grief? CopyMax in Des Moines, IA will do copying and printing, no problem.

I don't know if there's a difference between HP and Epson inks. But, I had continual problems with ink bleeding on decals printed on my Epson Stylus Color 600 using Microsol/set. Solvaset was a total disaster. I tried Krylon Acrylic and lacquer sealers w/o success. Here’s my original post - http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33024
Jim The fate of the Chambermaid http://30thbg.1hwy.com/38thBS.html
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 29, 2005 3:34 AM
Thanks for the updates! I'll definately have to try this on my printer. Will keep you updated on how it turns out.
  • Member since
    July 2003
Posted by schulerwb24 on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 12:22 PM
Kitbashed: Great job! Keep up the good work. I have also subsequently found that some decals, those done on clear, need light background or a white decal underneath, especially if put on dark backgrounds. Still, the extra needed backing with white outweighs none at all. Just started experimenting with a background color for lighter colors, then printing on white paper. The only trick is getting the background color to match the paint on the model. Let you know how this works.

jridge-
A Kinkos, 2 Office Depots, 1 Office Max, several independent print/copy shops...all of the above said "No" without hesitation when I asked. I could see a pattern there, so quit asking after contacting 10 or so. It was like they have a grapevine.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Harrisburg, PA
Posted by Lufbery on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 1:08 PM
Schuler,

Keep us updated. The thing is, I thought the Testors paper I was using was white. But when I put the decal on the kit, the image itself (the ink) and the carrier film came off the sheet, and that was it. None of the white from the paper came with the decals.

Now, that's a good thing in that I can have clear parts in my decals, but I also have to make sure there's a white area the size of the decal to go behind it.

Regards,

-Drew

Build what you like; like what you build.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: West Des Moines, IA USA
Posted by jridge on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 1:09 PM
No kidding - I'd give up too! That's too bad. Decal paper should not cause them heartburn if they do laser labels?

I just walked into CopyMax, becasue it was close to my house, and asked. They asked about the paper. I told them it was like laser labels. They said "no problem". They've done one print job and two copy jobs for me since. Still no problems or hesitation on their part.
Jim The fate of the Chambermaid http://30thbg.1hwy.com/38thBS.html
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 5:10 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jridge

No kidding - I'd give up too! That's too bad. Decal paper should not cause them heartburn if they do laser labels?

I just walked into CopyMax, becasue it was close to my house, and asked. They asked about the paper. I told them it was like laser labels. They said "no problem". They've done one print job and two copy jobs for me since. Still no problems or hesitation on their part.


How much did they charge?
and which store did you use?
I live in Des Moines also.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: West Des Moines, IA USA
Posted by jridge on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 7:34 PM
I use the Copy Max next to the Office Max in Clock Tower Square off University Ave. in West Des Moines. They charged me $.89 per sheet.

See my post about "Lessons Learned" about having them do the printing.

http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33024
Jim The fate of the Chambermaid http://30thbg.1hwy.com/38thBS.html
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 3:27 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jridge

I use the Copy Max next to the Office Max in Clock Tower Square off University Ave. in West Des Moines. They charged me $.89 per sheet.

See my post about "Lessons Learned" about having them do the printing.

http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33024


I saw your other post after replying to this one.
But thanks anyway...
I'll have to stop in and check it out, next trip to Best Buys I guess.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 3:51 PM
There is a way to make decals with white letters on clear backgrounds - without an ALPS printer!
See http://www.paper-paper.com/WhiteLetter-inst.html

The trick seems to be to sprinkle "embossing powder" on the decal surface as soon as it comes out of the printer, before the ink dries. Put the decal in a tray to do this so that the excess powder can go back in the bottle. Let it dry a few minutes, shake off the excess, use a fine brush to get off any other particles. Heat the decal with a high-temp heat gun, toaster oven, or the bottom of an iron (no steam) until the powder melts. Apply decal to surface.

I think that any ink jet decal stock can be used and any embossing powder. Embossing powders are sold in hobby and craft shops, especially those that have rubber stamps and inks. White, gold, silver, and various effects like pearl are available. You just need to get the powder on before the ink dries completely. A little experimentation may be need to see which ink colors are slower-drying and stickier and what printer setting to use for the amount of ink applied.

A couple notes on laser-printed decals. The Future floor finish works well to protect the laser toners (inks). These are usually attacked by Krylon and other solvent-based acrylic finishes. Another trick I just learned for laser decals when you want a durable decal on a metal or glass surface is to pre-bake a reverse-printed decal in a toaster oven at 300 °F for a minute or so until the ink is shiny. Apply the decal ink-side down, smooth it out, blot excess water with a lint-free cloth, and bake the part in a pre-heated oven at 150-200 °F for about 10 minutes until the decal is dry. Then raise the temperature by 50 °F every 5 minutes until the temperature gets to 350 °F. Bake about 3-5 more minutes until the decal is shiny. Pull the part out of the oven and let it air-cool slowly to room temperature. The decal will now be very durable, more resistant to scratching, and will withstand occasional hand washing (not the dishwasher!) or other water. Parts painted with oil-base glossy enamel can take the bake temperatures. It may be a good idea to pre-bake the paint after letting it air-dry for 24-48 hours before applying the decal. The paint may stink when you bake it, so don't do this in the kitchen. Don't do this on plastic parts - they melt at 350 °F. Try it out on a scrap part first, especially if it's a painted one, before doing this on good parts. A coffee mug makes a good thing to experiment on.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 8:56 PM
Thanks for the info, based on your tests I tried my own for the first time. Using Micromark's while decal paper, I printed it on an epson color 600, gave it 2 nice coats of the fixative. Let it dry overnight and applied it. Used a bit of Microscale Set. No problems, looks great!
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