Silvering of decals?

You could say that -Unless I really feel the need to express another feeling that can't be shown using the smileys here, I don't bother.

Although, I've seen some pretty funny smileys, but I'd be evicted if I used them...

Tsk tsk tsk. Tempting the hand of fate, i see?

I can imagine...

 

-Courtesy of Wing_Nut, I copied and pasted. I couldn't resist...

Usually don't go outside the forum for newer smilies, but sometimes the ones available here just aren't appropriate enough for the occasion. I actually ran into a site full of smilies that just made me spit mountain dew all over the keyboard. Too bad i can't use em though. I'd get evicted here for sure if i did

DesertRat wrote:

Thanks again, Ben! You're a real pal. Ya know that?

  Love the smiley! Sad thing is, FSM won't give me new ones, and i'm too lazy to get smileys imported from other websites...

I'll see if i have a brush like that or similar in the tools. Fortunately in this build, there are few decals, and all of them are pretty small. If i do mess up and end up with some silvering, it shouldn't be all that obvious

I don't own an airbrush (that falls into the wish upon a star category) and so have always brushed on Future before applying decals. I generally use a No. 3 or 5 round sable hair brush because I model in 1/72 scale. bgrigg is right in that you have to always check the Future to make sure it filled all the valleys and dried to a smooth, level surface. I don't slop it on, but I have found more than one instance where a second coat was needed before applying decals. I like to hold the model up to a light at an angle where I get a good reflection off of the Futured surface, that way any little bumps or pits tend to show up readily. We're always told to take our time when building, but applying the decals is one place where you really, really want to treat each one like a little individual project. 

Thanks again, Ben! You're a real pal. Ya know that?

DesertRat wrote:

Well, for the U-2R i'm building, that's definately what i'm looking for! Any idea if the dulcote will mess with the decals once they are set? And i still have some issues with the compressor, so it looks like i'll be brushing on the future. I know it's been said to use a wide brush. What size would you recommend? And i'll be looking forward to the pictures. I'm gonna try a NMF here sometime in the near future, so all the advice and info is definately welcomed!

Nope, it shouldn't interfere. If anything, Dullcote helps the decals I say. Brushing is perfectly fine, I did that on my HO4S-3 and it self-levels just like everyone says it does. I'm not sure what size brush, whatever's convenient to you, but probably a fairly big one. As for the NMF-The F-86 was my first NMF, done with Alclad. It takes patience! For NMF's, I think future, applied by airbrush or brush, is a must for protecting your fragile, thin, shiny, easily scratched NMF finish. Or you can wear cotton gloves, but I like Future. Also, most people apply it before decals anyway.

Bill-After the Micro-Set and decals set, and I applied Dullcote, there was no silvering! Gone...I guess it was just air trapped that somehow got out. But it's good to know now what causes it and what I can do to prevent it. When I tried to cut a decal with a brand new blade, it ripped the decal.

 

ben1227 wrote:

Thanks...but the funny thing is I applied a coat of Future by airbrush before I did decals. Then when I went to buy Micro-Sol (I was using Micro-Set), I read that Micro-Set is supposed to prevent silvering. It didn't...Also, all big decals have a film behind them, as they aren't individual letters. But depending on how you look at it, you can see the film behind the letters and it looks bad. One coat of Testors Dullcote fixed it for the most part. I assume it dissolved the film...

Ben, sometimes Future requires more than one coat to overcome the rough surface of flat paints. It's best to feel if the surface is smooth before putting on the decal.

Be careful with Micro-Sol, it can attack Future and cause it to cloud. Micro-Set or Sol are both good tools to use with decals, but neither can prevent silvering, only reduce it and then only if the surface is pretty smooth. I even cut the decal along panel lines in order to get the decal to stop silvering.

Large silvering bubbles can be slit with that sharp scalpel blade you have and then snugged down with a hit of Micro-Set. Don't give up on it yet! 

Well, for the U-2R i'm building, that's definately what i'm looking for! Any idea if the dulcote will mess with the decals once they are set? And i still have some issues with the compressor, so it looks like i'll be brushing on the future. I know it's been said to use a wide brush. What size would you recommend?

And i'll be looking forward to the pictures. I'm gonna try a NMF here sometime in the near future, so all the advice and info is definately welcomed!

No problem! I'll post pics soon, it'll of course be in aircraft. Good luck with Future and Dullcote. Future is actually pretty handy, you can even brush it on since it's self-leveling. Just remember Dullcote (some people forget this!) is dull, and does dull the finish completely, even if you used ultra high gloss paints. Testors Corp. also makes the Glosscote, which obviously would still work for dissolving the decal film, it's just shiny.

Good to know, Ben. Thanks! Have ya posted pictures of the F-86 since the decals yet? I'm interested to see how it looks.

Future and dullcote are 2 practices i've never done before. So as that time gets closer, i'm a bit apprehensive how it's gonna turn out. So.....

"For the most part" was just me expressing my anger Dullcote is laquer, so I assume it dissolved the film behind the decal. It worked nicely..

ben1227 wrote:

Thanks...but the funny thing is I applied a coat of Future by airbrush before I did decals. Then when I went to buy Micro-Sol (I was using Micro-Set), I read that Micro-Set is supposed to prevent silvering. It didn't...Also, all big decals have a film behind them, as they aren't individual letters. But depending on how you look at it, you can see the film behind the letters and it looks bad. One coat of Testors Dullcote fixed it for the most part. I assume it dissolved the film...

Well i'll be moving into the future/decals stage with one of my builds here soon, and i've got that Testors dullcote. You said "for the most part". On a black aircraft, any idea what i might expect from Testors? Or should i consider something else for a dullcote?

Thanks...but the funny thing is I applied a coat of Future by airbrush before I did decals. Then when I went to buy Micro-Sol (I was using Micro-Set), I read that Micro-Set is supposed to prevent silvering. It didn't...Also, all big decals have a film behind them, as they aren't individual letters. But depending on how you look at it, you can see the film behind the letters and it looks bad. One coat of Testors Dullcote fixed it for the most part. I assume it dissolved the film...

The only thing that prevents silvering is a very smooth surface. Silvering is air that gets under the decal, which happens often on flat paint.

Flat paint is a misnomer really, it's not flat at all. Gloss paint is flat! I'll explain.

Matte paint is rough, breaking up and scattering the light rays, therefore reflecting less light, and so appears dull. It does so by creating hills and valleys that bounce the light away from your eye.

Gloss paint, on the other hand is smooth, thereby reflecting the light evenly back to your eyes.

When you decal over an uneven surface, the decal only adheres to the peaks, and can't conform to the valleys. This lets air under the decal and make bubbles. That is what silvering really is, bubbles. 

This is why Future is so popular with modelers. Future smooths out the bumps that flat paint makes as it's self leveling. Then the decals can adhere to the new flat surface. Another gloss coat seals the decals for a painted on look, and the final matte coat knocks the shine back to where you want it.

It's too bad the paint manufacturers don't supply authentic military colors in gloss, and help us eliminate that step. I think that is due to the difficulty of getting a gloss color to have the correct shade while painting, knowing that is will be covered up with a matte finish in the future.

This applies to paint finishes for your home. Kitchens and Bathrooms are typically painted with semi-gloss to gloss finishes, as it cleans up better than matte finishes do. The dirt gets into the valleys of matte paint and are harder to clean. 

 

Silvering is air trapped between the decal and the model's surface. Silvering is more prevalent on surfaces painted with flat paints because by their very ature, flat paints have microscopic pits on the surface. Usually you can prevent silvering, setting solution or not, by gloss coating the surface you're applying the decal to.

It's really annoying the way they scrunch up and won't lay flat.

Shrivelling and wrinkling is normal after application of a setting solution. As it dries, it will flatten out on its own. Once it starts to shrivel, you should never touch it until its completely dry. HOWEVER, you should only apply a setting solution to a decal on a gloss painted surface. If you apply it to a decal on a "flat" painted surface, those microscopic pits which make the paint "flat" will cause resistance to the decal as it flattens out, which may result in the decal not flattening out completely, leaving wrinkles and creases.