Tcoat

Dihydrogen Monoxide!! It kill thouasnds of people a year yet has never been banned. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dihydrogen-monoxide-dhmo-mike-albrecht-p-e-  

Ban DHMO!!!

Eaglecash867

 

 

Tcoat

This ^ This is the real story. 

MEK is still used extensivly in the automotive manufacturing sector. With proper controls it is no more hazardous than any other solvent. As you said the little bits used for modeling would be hard pressed to reach any form of hazard level. 

 

 

 

 

Yup.  Reading through some of the replies in this necro'd thread, I think a lot of people are confusing MEK with the old standby solvent 1,1,1-Trichloroethane.  That stuff worked like nothing else, but it was INCREDIBLY toxic.  That is a solvent that has pretty much vanished from industrial use.  Just as long as you don't huff or drink MEK, its not going to hurt you, especially using tiny amounts of it as cement for your models.  I use it to thin decanted Tamiya surface primer to give it extra bite on the plastic, and it also makes a great cleaning fluid for my Paasche H airbrush parts that I just drop into a relish jar full of the stuff and run in an ultrasonic cleaner.  MEK substitute was popular for a while in hardware stores due to the myths about MEK...and then actually turned out to be quite a bit more toxic than MEK actually was.  Heh...if I had a nickel for every time I saw the same old myths about it, I would be able to retire.

 

I have been in Occupational Health and Safety in the automotive maufacturing sector for over 30 year. About 80% of my jb seems to be dispelling romours and missinformation.

Besides everybody knows that the most dangerous solvent out there is 

Dihydrogen Monoxide!!

It kill thouasnds of people a year yet has never been banned.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dihydrogen-monoxide-dhmo-mike-albrecht-p-e-  

Tcoat

This ^ This is the real story. 

MEK is still used extensivly in the automotive manufacturing sector. With proper controls it is no more hazardous than any other solvent. As you said the little bits used for modeling would be hard pressed to reach any form of hazard level. 

Eaglecash867

This is a 9 year old thread, and that is inaccurate information.  We use MEK quite regularly in the aviation industry and it hasn't killed anybody, with just common sense safety practices.  The miniscule exposure from modeling uses is even less of a problem, as long as you have good ventilation and latex gloves to protect your hands.  If in doubt about a chemical such as MEK (something pretty much ALL model cements contain as the main ingredient) the MSDS is readily available on-line.

 

This ^ This is the real story. 

MEK is still used extensivly in the automotive manufacturing sector. With proper controls it is no more hazardous than any other solvent. As you said the little bits used for modeling would be hard pressed to reach any form of hazard level. 

This is a 9 year old thread, and that is inaccurate information.  We use MEK quite regularly in the aviation industry and it hasn't killed anybody, with just common sense safety practices.  The miniscule exposure from modeling uses is even less of a problem, as long as you have good ventilation and latex gloves to protect your hands.  If in doubt about a chemical such as MEK (something pretty much ALL model cements contain as the main ingredient) the MSDS is readily available on-line.

Texgunner

I bought a can of MEK at the hardware store and it seems to weld plastic ricky-tick.   Cheaper in bulk than Ambroid from Hobby Lobby too.

Gary

 

I use multiple different glues; from testors cement (original formula with the needle and the non-toxic version with the needle - smells like orange oil), generic CA, Locktite CA extra thin and gel, Gorilla Glue CA and the Hobby Lobby CA medium.  I like to use the non-toxic stuff if I'm working on my projects at work (fortunately I have plenty of downtime at my job and they allow me to work on these at work).

If you can get it I use Tamiya extra thin and model master liquid glue with the needle applicator. Works well for me! Happy modeling!

Hello!

I'm a big fan of using lacquer thinner for glueing together styrene parts. It gives a very strong bond, that doesn't deteriorate with time and the excess glue doesn't need cleanup if handled right - it just evaporates. It's also great for preparing surfaces to be glued with CA, makes the bond stronger and it also causes CA to dry faster. Like Don said, lacquer thinner doesn't have a specific composition - they vary from bottle to bottle, so it's worth to check a specific product if it works as glue - but if you buy a good bottle of it, it might last you for ten years or so. The checkI use looks like follows: I take a piece of sprue, put a large drop of the lacquer thinner on an even surface of the sprue and wait a few seconds. Then I touch that surface with my finger and take the finger away. If you can see fibres of molten plastic raising between the finger and the sprue, the composition will make a good glue.

As for the toxicity - I looked up the most popular components on wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/.../Methyl_ethyl_ketone

en.wikipedia.org/.../Acetone

en.wikipedia.org/.../Toluene

en.wikipedia.org/.../Xylene

Those pages above say many things - like you can make drugs from one of those substances (that's why they are substituting it), explosives from the other, they are all highly flammable, and good for sniffing if you really don't like your contact with the reality, but they don't cause cancer any more than alcohol and tobacco do. Sure those are dangerous chemicals - but your primary concerns are: 1.Fire 2:Passing out and hurting yourself 3:Throwing up. So let's stay safe without building a paranoia here. I believe using lacquer thinner from small containers, like nail lacquer bottles (makes a great applicator), to reduce the spill risk, and reasonable ventilation of the work area, plus common sense in handling heat and electricity should keep us all relatively safe.

Good luck with your glueing and thanks for reading, have a nice day

Paweł

Don Stauffer

MEK substitutes are not MEK.  They are replacing MEK as it is supposed to be a carcinogen.  I do not know what chemicals these substitutes contain.  Yes, acetone is a specific substance.  So is toluene.  Some hardware and paint stores have these later two, some don't. I think acetone is generally a bit easier to find than toluene.

Hi Don,

Do you have a reference for this? I've looked at the toxicology studies, various government reports and the MSDS sheets from many manufacturers of MEK and have not found this. MEK is being banned in some states but I believe it's because it's a VOC and pollution is a concern; it is also regulated because of it high flammability. It has been reported to be neurotoxic (central nervous system) after prolonged inhalation. I'm not aware of any reports that classify MEK as a carcinogen or a suspected carcinogen. There are reports that there isn't enough data to 'classify it' one way or the other.  Indeed, several ounces of MEK have been ingested by an individual and, with proper treatment, full recovery with no apparent long term effects. There is, to my knowledge, no data to show that "substitute MEK" is less harmful whatever it contains. Don't mean to belabor this point but, if I missed something I'd like to know about it. IMHO, our use of MEK in modeling poses very, very minimal risk. Just don't bathe in it or drink very much of it and don't smoke while using it.

Theres a lot of threads on this but if I had to pick just one for plastic kits it would be Tamiya Extra Thin. It does almost everything I need it for, but I have to admit my bench is full of different types of glues and cements.  

My apologies to Modeler#1 for high-jacking this thread.

For anyone that is interested, I have ended up with MEK for liquid cement now.  The lacquer thinner and acetone evaporate too quickly.  The MEK is slow enough to melt the plastic to make a good bond.  It smells awful, which will certainly remind me to be careful with it and work with ventilation!  I don't know that it is any more harmful than some of the other chemicals we use in modeling, but the smell makes me think of being careful around it.

I would also like to try the Weld-on 3, but have not found any locally yet.  The Micromark product is, unfortunately, unavailable from the retailer I usually order from.

I've been using Testor's liquid cements for as long as I can remember. One type comes in a plastic bottle with a long, thin hypodermic-like tube and is fairly thick, the other in a glass bottle with a brush applicator and is water thin. I love both. You can also check out Micromark Same Stuff.

MEK substitutes are not MEK.  They are replacing MEK as it is supposed to be a carcinogen.  I do not know what chemicals these substitutes contain.  Yes, acetone is a specific substance.  So is toluene.  Some hardware and paint stores have these later two, some don't. I think acetone is generally a bit easier to find than toluene.

Don Stauffer

Indeed lacquer thinner is not a specific chemical, it is merely a product used to thin lacquer paints.  Some of the chemicals used as lacquer thinners include MEK, toluene, and acetone.

Thanks for that information.

Are the other 3 you list specific chemicals?  MEK is always the same stuff, acetone always the same?

I was at Home Depot today, and they did not have MEK, just something called an MEK substitute.  They did have a can marked as acetone.

Indeed lacquer thinner is not a specific chemical, it is merely a product used to thin lacquer paints.  Some of the chemicals used as lacquer thinners include MEK, toluene, and acetone.

Well! Apparently not all lacquer thinners are equal.

After 2 1/2 years I needed to get another can of lacquer thinner to use for liquid cement.  Last can was Klean Strip, and the new can I bought was the same brand, but the new can is not the same stuff.  New can is not melting the plastic like the old one did.  Not sure exactly what is going on, but it might be drying faster, so fast that I cannot get the pieces together quickly enough, and it does not melt the plastic before evaporating.  So I may have to withdraw my earlier suggestion.  

For styrene, I use Testor's tube glue (I can hear the collective gasp throughout cyberspace as I write this) and Plastruct's Bondene/Weldene liquid glues.  For CA glue, I use HobbyTown's store brand, extra-thin.  I also use their store brand of 2-part epoxy.  For white glue, it's Elmer's.

Tamiya Extra Thin is what I use.  Gunze Mr. Cement is good and pretty much the same as far as odor and bonding strength but the bad part is that it has a broad applicator brush and not the fine point brush Tamiya Extra Thin cement has.

Another good brand is Proweld it a thin liquid like Tamiya but it dries really fast but  the bond is really strong.  The only bad part about that is that the bottle is really tall & skinny and easy to tip over, it doesn't have a fine tip brush applicator and you have to make sure you leave the cap on or else it'll evaporate really quickly.

If you have lacquer thinner around, try that.  I have been using it for some time now, and it works great.

patrick206

Fellow modelers.

A caution to all regarding the liquid cements listed here, I believe most, if not all, use MEK as an ingredient. The Material Safety Data Sheet, (MSDS,) for MEK identifies it as highly carcinogenic, or cancer causing. The smell of liquid cements is horrible, these cements should be used only in areas with positive ventilation, (as in you should not detect it when in use.)

A Medical Doctor friend tells me it is considered "accumalative," meaning the stuff leaves your body so slowly you'll never get rid of all of it. I'm not a world famous expert on this, but I assure one and all that it places a real risk to your lives and health, if not used with respect and caution.

Even Tenax, which I think has the least obnoxious odor, has MEK listed on the ingredients label. Please use care, I want all of you to avoid health issues because of inhaling toxic fumes. The skin is just another body organ and highly absorptive, these agents are easily taken in through your skin. Proper gloves are called for as well.

Be careful and be well.

Patrick

Are you sure of this. I've looked at the MSDS for MEK and don't find such information. What I find is information like:

Which is quoted from this https://www.tapplastics.com/uploads/pdf/MSDS_MEKS.pdf; link.

Fellow modelers.

A caution to all regarding the liquid cements listed here, I believe most, if not all, use MEK as an ingredient. The Material Safety Data Sheet, (MSDS,) for MEK identifies it as highly carcinogenic, or cancer causing. The smell of liquid cements is horrible, these cements should be used only in areas with positive ventilation, (as in you should not detect it when in use.)

A Medical Doctor friend tells me it is considered "accumalative," meaning the stuff leaves your body so slowly you'll never get rid of all of it. I'm not a world famous expert on this, but I assure one and all that it places a real risk to your lives and health, if not used with respect and caution.

Even Tenax, which I think has the least obnoxious odor, has MEK listed on the ingredients label. Please use care, I want all of you to avoid health issues because of inhaling toxic fumes. The skin is just another body organ and highly absorptive, these agents are easily taken in through your skin. Proper gloves are called for as well.

Be careful and be well.

Patrick

plasticjunkie

I use about 90% of the time Plast-I-Weld plastic welder with the Touch-N-Flow applicator. Ever since I have mastered using the applicator, this is my system of choice. It melts the plastic, welding both pieces making a solid join. This some times reduces the use of fillers since the plastic melts and fills the voids,

Glad you figured that TNF out, never could get it to work for me.

I use about 90% of the time Plast-I-Weld plastic welder with the Touch-N-Flow applicator. Ever since I have mastered using the applicator, this is my system of choice. It melts the plastic, welding both pieces making a solid join. This some times reduces the use of fillers since the plastic melts and fills the voids,

I also use Aleens tacky glue on certain pe or plastic applications. it's extremely strong and flexible. For clear parts I use Testors clear parts cement. Also thick CA for some pe applications.

Tex, that's interesting. I use MEK at work to clean sheet metal for sealing. That stuff is seriously toxic. I bet it welds plastic with ease. I never thought of using it for that. I bet it works very good. Probably have to be careful with it though. I certainly wouldn't breathe much of it, and be careful getting it on your skin. It attacks the nervous system

Tamiya extra thin, revell liquid glue ( with needle) and CA

Im talking about different brands of glue, sorry for the mix up.

I bought a can of MEK at the hardware store and it seems to weld plastic ricky-tick.   Cheaper in bulk than Ambroid from Hobby Lobby too.

Gary