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Oil or Acrylic washes?

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  • Member since
    August, 2012
Oil or Acrylic washes?
Posted by JMorgan on Tuesday, May 26, 2015 4:45 PM

Which is better and when are they best used?

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, May 26, 2015 6:07 PM

Acrylic washes are best avoided in most cases, as they dry too quickly and are not easily cleaned up. The only time I like using them is for flesh tones, using them to change the look of the original base color.  For pin washes that are used for detailing work, oils are a much better medium to work with. They can be cleaned up for long afterwards, giving you a nice"fudge factor" in cases where you have to step away due to real life interruptions at your work bench.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
Posted by AnalogKid on Wednesday, May 27, 2015 7:04 AM

I find the use of oil washes much easier to apply and clean-up. I utilize a clear coat of acrylic varnish (usually satin) and after it cures apply the oil wash…most usually a pin wash. It flows well (if thinned properly) and clean-up  - of the wash where you didn’t want it to go - with a brush with a very light amount of mineral spirits does the trick. I have found that if I utilize an acrylic wash (Vallejo’s wash, for example) over a cured, acrylic coat of varnish then the wash seems to “bleed” out of the area I want it to go and subsequent clean-up is not as clean. What I have not experimented with is an acrylic wash over an enamel or lacquer-based clear coat. Maybe someone who has can chime-in. I have had such good luck with oil washes over acrylic that I haven’t had a need to experiment further.

-Len

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Wednesday, May 27, 2015 9:15 AM

It is also possible to make enamel washes.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Wednesday, May 27, 2015 1:04 PM

I have used both and oils are the best for me. They run and spread much better than acrylics, having better control as they are slow dryers and adjustments can me made at any time. I find oils easier to wipe and clean off, creating some very subtle streaks and stains even when dry, something I can't get when using an acrylic wash.

I bought a Reeve's oil paint set at Hobby Lobby some years back with a 40% coupon  and use plain Turpentine from Home Depot to make my own washes.

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a day.

  • Member since
    February, 2014
  • From: Michigan
Posted by silentbob33 on Friday, May 29, 2015 9:16 AM

I use acrylic washes simply because I have a lot of acrylic craft paint at home, and I keep forgetting to look into getting a thinning medium for the little bit of oil paint I have on hand.  Acrylics work OK for me, but I feel like I need to be pretty precise with it, because as mentioned above it can be a pain to clean up since it dries faster than oils.  I haven't had too many problems with acrylic washes, but I'm sure I'll be happy when I finally get through my acrylic paint and get around to trying oils.

On my bench: 1/48 Monogram F/A-18 Hornet "Hi-Tech" version

  • Member since
    August, 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Thursday, July 02, 2015 7:23 PM

Hi ;

   Although I don't use washes much , when I do , I use Windsor and Newton oils .They flow better and after they dry , I clear - coat them with no problem with acrylic semi - gloss .This is the one time I use acrylics gladly .

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by Titus on Tuesday, January 09, 2018 10:48 AM

Just back to modeling after 25 years or so. Having issue deciding type of paint. Oil Verse Acrylic. My main question is can I use an oil wash over oil painted model?

 

  • Member since
    August, 2012
Posted by JMorgan on Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:37 PM

No way! It will gum up what has already dried and result in a mess. This has
to do with an issue I don=E2=80=99t fully understand myself called 
hotness of the paint. Lacquers are hotter than oils and oils hotter
than acrylics. Acrylics are a good barrier to most oils. Lacquers, for the m=
ost part (Testors is an exception), cannot be used over oils. I hope this he=
lps

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:52 PM

It's pretty much been said, here's what I do.

After painting the model with whatever type of paint, I clear coat it with Future which is a gloss acrylic finish. Let dry completely.

I use oil paints from a cheap set, diluted in odorless Turpentine. That's sold as "Turpenoid" and is pretty available at places like Michael's or Aaron's.

I put three or four colors on a palette, say black, white, and what colors I want. Usually a brown or red and a yellow. If you work it like an artist you make the color you want on the pallette. Then dissolve in a larger quantity of Turpenoid. That might be a blob of paint like a pea in size, in a quarter inch of Turpenoid in a little paper cup. Mix it really well and get a clean brush, or really clean the one you are using. You don't want little blobs of paint as they cause streaks.

Brush it on the model liberally. I use a 1" wide soft flat brush.

Then let it sit a bit. How long depends on how much you want to work it, and you learn as you go.

I take a clean white cloth and dip it in pure Turpenoid. Wipe gently to remove the wash in places where you want a highlight and more pure color to show from the base paint.

The beauty of it is that you have a pretty good window of time to remove the wash if you don't like the way it came out, and do it over. There's really no good way to dissolve and remove acrylic paint over another paint finish without starting over from the beginning.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Wednesday, January 10, 2018 5:33 PM

GMorrison
I use oil paints from a cheap set, diluted in odorless Turpentine. That's sold as "Turpenoid" and is pretty available at places like Michael's or Aaron's.

If you buy Turpenoid, make sure you buy the petroleum based one in the blue can. There are accounts in the forum where people have bought the green can Turpenoid Natural and found that (a) it doesn't dry and (b) it strips the underlying paint.

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by Titus on Wednesday, January 10, 2018 5:56 PM
Thanks for all the input. Just to clarify.
1.I painted the model in a flat oil base
2.Then I put stickers on...but didn't know I had to seal first with a gloss.
3. Now my intent was to spray it with an acrylic clear semi-gloss spray can--didn't see anything in an oil or   Lacquer.
4. And  finished with and oil wash. 
 
 Will this work OK? My biggest confusion has been with the different paints and their basis such as acrylic versus oil. I've watched a lot of YouTube and got good info on how to do The washes  but nothing clear-cut as to what types of products to use. One post said neve to use a wash made of the same type base. It said if u use oil base than do wash with oil bad mixed with thinner it would lift the underlining coat. 
  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, January 10, 2018 6:07 PM

Phil_H

 

 
GMorrison
I use oil paints from a cheap set, diluted in odorless Turpentine. That's sold as "Turpenoid" and is pretty available at places like Michael's or Aaron's.

 

If you buy Turpenoid, make sure you buy the petroleum based one in the blue can. There are accounts in the forum where people have bought the green can Turpenoid Natural and found that (a) it doesn't dry and (b) it strips the underlying paint.

 

Right, I didn't know that. The stuff I buy comes in a clear plastic bottle with blue print on it.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, January 10, 2018 6:14 PM

Titus
Thanks for all the input. Just to clarify.
1.I painted the model in a flat oil base
2.Then I put stickers on...but didn't know I had to seal first with a gloss.
3. Now my intent was to spray it with an acrylic clear semi-gloss spray can--didn't see anything in an oil or   Lacquer.
4. And  finished with and oil wash. 
 
 Will this work OK? My biggest confusion has been with the different paints and their basis such as acrylic versus oil. I've watched a lot of YouTube and got good info on how to do The washes  but nothing clear-cut as to what types of products to use. One post said neve to use a wash made of the same type base. It said if u use oil base than do wash with oil bad mixed with thinner it would lift the underlining coat. 
 

If you painted the model in enamel and then tried to do a wash of enamel thinned with spirit thinner, that would be a problem. If you paint the model with enamel and put on an acrylic barrier coat, oil wash works great. I'd hesitate to try a spirit thinned enamel wash over an acrylic barier coat, if for no other reason than you will alway have some gaps or thin spots in your barrier coat, but it would probably work.

To repeat what others have said, I'm not happy with acrylic paint based washes. If others can get it to work, good deal. But I find that really thin acrylic dilutions don't suspend the particles very well, resulting in what look like water stains.

None of this applies to putting on a very thin overspay from an airbrush, so long as you don't rub at it. Of course there are failure modes there too, but it's not slopping thinner all over a painted model, like a wash.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, January 10, 2018 7:06 PM

If you plan on doing an oil wash, try using Mona Lisa brand thinner to make your wash. It is extremely mild and will not attack a dried and cured unsealed enamel base coat. I cant vouch for any other brand of thinner based upon firsthand experience, but Mona Lisa Thinner I can. It is carried at Hobby Lobby. 

Whatever it is formulated with, does not thin enamel paints. So you can not use it to thin enamel paints or clean brushes that you used eith enamel paints. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Friday, January 12, 2018 9:06 AM

GMorrison

 

 

 

If you painted the model in enamel and then tried to do a wash of enamel thinned with spirit thinner, that would be a problem. If you paint the model with enamel and put on an acrylic barrier coat, oil wash works great. I'd hesitate to try a spirit thinned enamel wash over an acrylic barier coat, if for no other reason than you will alway have some gaps or thin spots in your barrier coat, but it would probably work.

True if you really work the wash into the existing paint.  However, if you are quick and do not do any brushing- just flow the wash over an area where the natural flow takes the wash over where you want the stain to be, it works okay. I especially use washes for rust on side of ship- the ship held in a normal attitude.  The wash flows down without any brushing and makes a stain.  Yes, it makes a difference in the sheen of the paint beneath, but I like that effect.  Also, you do not need to flood the area with the wash- a little goes a long way.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by Titus on Saturday, January 13, 2018 12:23 PM
I am starting a new model. I have an acrylic spray primer. is it correct to: 1.use acrylic primer 2.paint my base in oil. 3.Clear coat with acrylic 4. then do an oil wash?
  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, January 13, 2018 1:10 PM

Primers vary. Some acrylic “primers”are nothing more than a gray paint by that company labeled as a primer. 

When you say “oil base”, do you mean an enamel paint? 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    August, 2012
Posted by JMorgan on Saturday, January 13, 2018 1:12 PM

I ‘think‘ you can use acrylics over oils but not vice versa. Something to do with the paint cracking and ruining the topcoat. 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, January 13, 2018 1:37 PM

I probably wouldn't use an acrylic primer.

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by Titus on Saturday, January 13, 2018 3:25 PM
Oil paint is how it is labeled. But from what I read the term enamel and Oil are used synonymously
  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, January 13, 2018 5:03 PM

For house paints there are oil based enamels. In the hobby aspect, oils are the type as used by artists and come in a tube in a paste/concentrate form. Hobby Enamels are usually sold in small bottles. The two are completely different types, aside from using solvent type thinner.

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted by Baratheon on Saturday, January 13, 2018 6:57 PM

I wouldn't say that I'm a huge fan of acrylic washes but the slightly thicker brown mix I used to dirty up a StuG simulated accumulations of dirt fairly well. 

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by Titus on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 5:17 PM

Oh Well, tried wash and ended bad. I sprayed model with acrylic clear coat. I used an oil washed mixed with a odeless thinner and the clear coat came off and began to get tacky. It also did not run when pinwashing the way I expected. did 10:1 mix

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 9:54 PM

Titus

Oh Well, tried wash and ended bad. I sprayed model with acrylic clear coat. I used an oil washed mixed with a odeless thinner and the clear coat came off and began to get tacky. It also did not run when pinwashing the way I expected. did 10:1 mix

 

What brand of clear coat was used? How long did you wait after spraying the acrylic clear?

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a day.

  • Member since
    July, 2013
Posted by steve5 on Wednesday, January 17, 2018 12:36 AM

I have never had any trouble , over a clearcoat , in australia I use white spirit , I think it is the same as oderless thinner . I use it on all my ship's , 

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Wednesday, January 17, 2018 10:39 AM

The only way I see that happening IMO is either the clear coat was applied on too light not giving full coverage and or not fully cured. I remember one time brushing Future on a gear well and a couple of hours later applying an oil wash that wrinkled up the Future. It was lightly applied and was not cured which reacted with the solvent type thinner. 

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a day.

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by Titus on Wednesday, January 17, 2018 3:22 PM
Krylon Acrylic Clear spray
  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by Titus on Wednesday, January 17, 2018 3:23 PM

Thats my guess. I put 3 coats on within a few hours of each other than let it cure maybe 24 - 30 hours.

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by Titus on Wednesday, January 17, 2018 3:30 PM

now what? just hit it with flat (its an F18) call it a day and move or clear coat again. was also thinking thinner to strong, I always see Turpeniod. Is this less curossive  to paint?

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