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Can You say KOH-I-NOOR ?

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  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Can You say KOH-I-NOOR ?
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Tuesday, December 13, 2016 9:35 AM

 Hi :

  I see a lot about technical or artist pens on here and I would like to inject my one tenth of a cent ! Koh-I-Noor technical pens are best for any of the things you could use them for on a model .

 There is a problem though . Most OFFICE DEPOT and STAPLES store employees ( even the managers ) have never heard of them !They sell basic drafting supplies and paper but not the finest tech , pens ever made .Mine are over fifty five years old now and I probably won't buy new ones .

  I must say that I have tried many other brands on a whim or curiosity ( in the three or four sizes I needed ) there is just no comparison , Unless you find a new set from GERMANY . If you do be prepared to shell out some bucks !

     What I liked them for expecially , was for using on Linen or real Parchment , Vellum in the old days was a lot finer , more expensive back then too ! When you needed these in your line of work it was actually fun .

  Can you imagine using REAL Parchment to restore some old blue-prints ? Well , the copies were  "Blueprints " .We used black india ink in our pens . The old Ammonia developers cause the lines to turn blue on the treated paper . T.B.

  • Member since
    May, 2008
  • From: Wyoming Michigan
Posted by ejhammer on Tuesday, December 13, 2016 10:04 AM

Still have and use my old "blue line" Dart XL80 machine. Before that the whole sheet was dark blue and the lines were white, kinda like a negative. Was only able to have those made at a blueprint place though, or in the office of a large construction firm.

Completed - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa Dec 1942, USS Yorktown 1/700 Trumpeter 1943. In The Yards - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa 1945, USS ESSEX 1/700 Dragon 1944, USS ESSEX 1/700 Trumpeter 1945, USS ESSEX 1/540 Revell (vintage) 1962, USS ESSEX 1/350 Trumpeter 1942, USS ESSEX LHD-2 as commissioned, converted from USS Wasp kit Gallery Models. Plus 35 other plastic and wood ship kits.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, December 13, 2016 10:05 AM

This problem is the result of the democratization of computer graphics :-)

So many of the old drafting, business graphics and chartmaking technologies aimed at businesses, but of great aid to modelers, is disappearing as it is replaced by computer graphics- cheaper CAD and business graphics software.  Stuff like dry transfer lettering and symbols, drafting pens, etc. are disappearing from stores.  Stuff for real artsy use remains, but the stuff for commercial artists is disappearing.

Remember chart pac tape, dry transfer alphabets and numbers (and math symbols), drawing templetes with all sorts of common designs (flow chart boxes, etc)?  All done on the computer now.

Of course, the result is affordable (or even free) computer graphics programs that we modelers can use.  Design it on your computer, print it out on decal paper!

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Far Northern CA
Posted by mrmike on Tuesday, December 13, 2016 11:49 AM

Ah, the good old days...well they actually were. I still have a small cabinet full of dry transfer lettering and my trusty set of Staedtler-Mars technical pens, which I use on occasion. During the Great Takeover in the early 1990's when computer software companies subjegated the graphic arts industry, I was in sales, and got to see the Revolution firsthand. Not a pretty sight!

Graphic designers and printers got to buy new computers and software at every turn in an attempt to keep up with tech companies who were happily eating their profits. Fortunately things have pretty much settled down, so now when I do a design project I take the copy, photos, layouts and even (gasp!) hand drawn art to the printer,where I work side by side with their prepress artist to develop the final product. In a way it's a lot easier, but I do miss the tactile feel of doing the paste-ups and of course, the smell of rubber cement thinner (Benzine).

I think that's one of the reasons I enjoy modeling more now than in the past - it's a good substitute for the hands on process that was commercial art. Thanks for the trip down Memory Lane TB, and keep those Koh-i-nors clean!

Mike       

  • Member since
    August, 2013
Posted by Jay Jay on Wednesday, December 14, 2016 8:57 AM

Yes, I remember all that stuff as I started my journey in the working world as a Draftsman back in the day of no CAD. We hand drew EVERYTHING which was, to me ,the fun part of the job. I still have most of my tools from that job stashed somewhere. After 14 years of hand drawing, the Cad Cam thing came out and thousands of artsy Draftsmen where out of work. later in life, I tried to return to the industry via ITT tech to learn CAD but they wanted $32,000 for the tuition...nuts !

 

 

 

 

 

 I'm finally retired. Now time I got, money I don't.

  • Member since
    May, 2008
  • From: Wyoming Michigan
Posted by ejhammer on Wednesday, December 14, 2016 9:27 AM
Yup, still have my 40" X 60" Hamilton Dial-a-torque, borco covered drafting table with a Mutoh model L track machine and PY 15 drafting head. Plus all the scales, triangles, instruments and other paraphernalia, to go with my Dart XL-80 blue line machine. I like the tactile feel of drawing instruments on real paper, much like an artist uses paints and chalks. EJ

Completed - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa Dec 1942, USS Yorktown 1/700 Trumpeter 1943. In The Yards - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa 1945, USS ESSEX 1/700 Dragon 1944, USS ESSEX 1/700 Trumpeter 1945, USS ESSEX 1/540 Revell (vintage) 1962, USS ESSEX 1/350 Trumpeter 1942, USS ESSEX LHD-2 as commissioned, converted from USS Wasp kit Gallery Models. Plus 35 other plastic and wood ship kits.

GAF
  • Member since
    June, 2012
  • From: Longview, TX
Posted by GAF on Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:31 AM

Well, this brought back some memories.  Smile  The pens are still available from drafting suppliers, such as these:

http://www.gsdirect.net/markers-pens-pencils-accessories/technical-pens-points-ink-cleaner/koh-i-noor-3165-series-rapidograph-pens-sets.html

I do have to admit that I remember that the "jewel-tipped" pens were supposed to be better than the stainless steel ones, but were more expensive (of course).

In my time, the BLUE blueprint had disappeared, with only the blue-lines on white being the standard.  I'll relate a couple of stories here about some old blue-prints however.

The first involved our refurbishment of a pump station located at the Alabama Ordnance Works at Talledega (now mostly known for NASCAR).  The blueprints we received were impressive, all hand drawn and printed on what looked like vellum.  What caught my attention though was the date on some of the blueprints for the pump station: "Dec. 5th, 1941".  My only thought was "Well, that draftsman had an interesting weekend!".

The other story involved a Wastewater Treatment Facility and blueprints from 1933. On one print I found an area labeled "Colored Bathroom".  It took me a moment to realize that it was not refering to something from the Sherwin-Williams Paint Department! Different times.  Smile

Gary

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:08 PM

You Know ;

 You sure know how to hurt a guy . Yep , I still got all my stuff too .The old Dart machine hasn't seen chemicals in fifteen years .

 Now the Staedtler and Koh - I - Noor pens are all the Jewel tipped units . I also have a full set of the original steel tipped ones . I used the jewel tipped anytime I had to do restorations for V.A. facilities that are on the National Historical register . many folks wonder about the Drafting Machine though , with " What the H#$% is that ? " comments .

 Everything I had in my office was salvaged except my 36" x48" light box table .I built it myself out of White oak and 3/16 white glass ( tempered ),Someone purloined it .

    I still remember those times fondly though . My Competitor in Engineering was the first to get a CAD machine . Even after a week it couldn't draw round wheels on the sample Train Engine . Funny after three clicks at just studying the book I got it to work and never told anyone . It was my joke .The computer Geek and his Equipment was shown the door ! We then re-acquired the overage jobs that needed steel designers .  T.B.

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Wednesday, December 14, 2016 6:39 PM

Man you guys are bringing back memories of my drafting classes in high school.  Was the TA for 3 semesters for the instructor (he only let evryone else do it for one semester).  Then the work experience class for the last 2 periods of the day, and on to quitting time at the county engineers office.  Usually ran closures on land parcel maps, but ocassionally worked on building plans. 

Still draw up my own projects for fabbing up steel and wood.  My writing went downhill, as everything was done in printing, 1/8 inch high....... still do it, force of habit! 

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Thursday, December 15, 2016 9:14 AM

Hey Goldhammer :

   Yeah , I still have folks ask about my very fine Hand lettering . Sorry , Mr Brassaw said it was that and that only , Not Printing ! LOL.LOL. He was my four year high school Drafting/Design instructor .

 Now that's another thing , He insisted he was an instructor , Not a teacher .When asked he would simply state . 'You can teach an old dog new tricks .You cannot do more but instruct a human ! " lol.lol.
   He would get very upset if you had an erasure on your paper . He didn't believe in line overages as he called them . I had great respect for him .

   Thankfully, My foster father was a Tool and Die maker so I got a lot of instruction before I ever got to Mr.Brassaw's classes .

 I wonder if many today can make sense of an orthographic projection ? Or how about  something as simple as perspective ? Who Knows ?  the other thing was my Cursive . I got a lot of knuckle cracks from Sister Aurelia if I wasn't doing it legibly .

      See now you got me started . How many folks write so badly you cannot understand what it is they have written ? I wrote a letter to our Library director and she framed it for her handwriting class . I was quite embarrassed !

       I was fortunate to have been in Mr.Brassaw's classes - He was , as I found out later , an early student of the incredible Frank Lloyd Wright . My Hero , that man ! T.B.

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Thursday, December 15, 2016 9:26 AM

Mine was Robert Methusla Crawford. About 6'8, mid 60's then, could wrap one hand around a basketball and pick it up from the floor.  Still remember and laugh about one semester we had two young ladies in the class.  Sat across from each other and would not stop chattering back and forth.  He took a roll of maksing tape and wrapped it from chin over the top, and another from front to back, about 4 layers deep, for the entire period, on both. Pulled a lot of hair when they took it off. That ended that, you couldn't get them to say anything but a direct answer to a direct question after that. This was "69-71.  Try that today.......

Ah, for the good old days

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Thursday, December 15, 2016 12:52 PM

Yeah ;

   Mr. Brassaw had a nickname of course ( I believe you could imagine what it was ) But once he caught one of the students doing cartoons on parchment . He then had this fellow do a charicature of All the students .

   He had him  sign them and he put them in the Yearbook instead of photos . We were stuck with that for four years ! That fellow never did cartoons in class for the rest of the time !

      Now Sister Aurelia did things different . Knuckle raps for bad penmanship . Ruler edge head pops for messing around or whispering in class .

    She had this unique way of disappearing and sneaking up behind the wrongdoers . Habit and all ! Darned dedicated to teaching though . No one ever flunked one of her classes . They were to afraid of her to dare do that !    Ahhh , those were the Good old days !     T.B.

  • Member since
    January, 2010
Posted by CrashTestDummy on Wednesday, December 21, 2016 1:27 PM

Set the Wayback Machine, Sherman!!  Wow, what a blast from the past.  I still have my Rapidograph pens, and lettering templates.  I was THE guy who maintained the blue line machine where I worked as a geologist/geophysicist conducting high-resolution offshore hazards surveys, and creating reports for the customers before they could drill or lay pipelines offshore.  The maps were hand-created on velum.  Seafloor and subsurface contrours were hand-drawn using a pivoting railroad pen.

I even still have my highly-prized ten-points dividers we used to scale and devide things.  I can still smell the ammonia!  Thanks for the memories!

Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas

 

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Far Northern CA
Posted by mrmike on Wednesday, December 21, 2016 3:34 PM

While we're talking about the good 'ol days I neglected to mention something really great that happened last year - I got the drafting table of my dreams! When I was in the career I always wanted a Mayline Futurematic, the one that adjusts height with a motor drive and angle with the touch of a front mounted lever. I could never justify the expense

The table came to me as a gift and just needed the top refinished and some cleanup. It's now my modeling "bench". Reminds me of the song "These Are the Good Old Days".

Happy Holidays!

Mike

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:25 AM

Say, one of those tables should indeed make a great building table!

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    May, 2008
  • From: Wyoming Michigan
Posted by ejhammer on Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:48 AM

I did for a while, but it was a real pain to clear everything off when I wanted to draw something. That's when I decided to make a dedicated modeling room.

The drafting table -

The model room -

and the best - my home made spray booth -

 

Completed - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa Dec 1942, USS Yorktown 1/700 Trumpeter 1943. In The Yards - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa 1945, USS ESSEX 1/700 Dragon 1944, USS ESSEX 1/700 Trumpeter 1945, USS ESSEX 1/540 Revell (vintage) 1962, USS ESSEX 1/350 Trumpeter 1942, USS ESSEX LHD-2 as commissioned, converted from USS Wasp kit Gallery Models. Plus 35 other plastic and wood ship kits.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, December 26, 2016 2:32 PM

Yeah Don ;

   I remember all that stuff. Chartpak decorative border tape came in so many styles you'd never get bored . Now as to dry transfer lettering , Woodland Scenics still sells it for Model Railroading . Hobby Lobby has a house brand I don't recommend to anyone .It's to finicky .

     Doing that on a computer is okay for some , But the computer operated printer available to me , won't support that tasking . Besides I like remembering the " Good Old Days " as I work on a specific model . Oh Well ! T.B.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, December 26, 2016 2:35 PM

Oh Boy !

 Now I have to ask E.J. , do you have direct access to the hobby shop out front ? LOL.LOL. Nice looking shop ! There is a problem with the photo though . Where's the model your working on now ? LOL.LOL.  T.B.

  • Member since
    May, 2008
  • From: Wyoming Michigan
Posted by ejhammer on Monday, December 26, 2016 3:13 PM

I think there is a 3 way link to the model shop, UPS and the credid card. Seems to have a mind of it's own.

 

The model - Actually, the open box there, it's a 1/35 LCM-3. Gonna add a first aid jeep, WWII dodge ambulance, some really cool figures and a bunch of "junk" to it.

Completed - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa Dec 1942, USS Yorktown 1/700 Trumpeter 1943. In The Yards - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa 1945, USS ESSEX 1/700 Dragon 1944, USS ESSEX 1/700 Trumpeter 1945, USS ESSEX 1/540 Revell (vintage) 1962, USS ESSEX 1/350 Trumpeter 1942, USS ESSEX LHD-2 as commissioned, converted from USS Wasp kit Gallery Models. Plus 35 other plastic and wood ship kits.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Thursday, December 29, 2016 9:00 AM

Oh !

 That's one I had forgotten . Good old Rapidograph ! I still have my Rapidograph non motorized pencil sharpener !  T.B.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Thursday, December 29, 2016 9:08 AM

E.J.;

 That means you and I are just a few of so many suffering from that " Triangle "disease .

    They tell me there is no cure known to man .  T.B.

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