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Etchmate vs. Hold and Fold

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Etchmate vs. Hold and Fold
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 18, 2005 6:15 PM
I'm just curious about the experiences others have had with these products. They aren't cheap, but we all, being modelers, have a natural love of gadgets, whether they be practical or not. Since it's quite an investment for something you won't use every day, I'd like to know what people think of these things, and what experiences they've had with them and generally how the various aircraft, armor and other types of modelers feel about these things.
Etchmate is the one everybody is familiar with, for folding photoetched parts. They also make something called the Multitool for making cylindrical shapes with PE parts. It comes in two sizes. They also have the Grab Handler, also expensive and specialized, for making various sizes of, well, handles. Handles for armor, or for aircraft radios, black boxes or FOD covers. Or for making any perfect square or rectangular wire shape in miniature. Very miniature on the smallest level of the tool.
Then, I recently came across a brand called Hold and Fold, by a company called The Small Shop. I get the impression they mosly cater to model railroaders and serious ship builders, as well as diaramists. But they put out a PE folding tool similar to that of Etchmate, made of nicely milled, solid and heavy alloy parts. The difference is that the Hold and Fold comes in several widths, instead of one. The smallest is called "The Bug" and it is only two inches square, perfect for almost any aircraft modeling need, and it has three sides with different sizes and shaps of protrusions for folding boxes, or 45-degree bends as well other demands for bending PE. You just unscrew it, turn it to the appropriate side for the job at hand, be it folding an ammo box or a long L shaped girder. They also have milled their bending tools with dyes for folding handles, instead of adding an extra tool to the mix.
Also, Hold and Fold makes their own type of tool for making cylindrical parts. Like the Multitool, it's designed to make cylindrical shapes from the size of jet exhaust pipes to 1/35 scale 30 cal. cooling jackets. H&F's approach is a heavy milled aluminum base with several sizes of half-round cuts made in it, from about 5/8" down to machine-gun barrel size. They also provide aluminum dyes that perfectly fit into the concave round cuts, and by placing the flat piece of PE brass or whatever metal part over the convex part of the base, and pressing gently with the cylindrical dye that fits the size of the tube you want to make, you get a perfect half-tubular shape. Then, you remove the dye and brass part and flip the base over, where there is a thick rubber mat glued to the bottom. You finish the jet pipe or cooling jacket by rolling it gently on the rubber mat with the round bar-shaped dye and, voila, a perfect cylinder. It's a completely different approach than the Multi Tool, in which you basically wrap the brass around the appropriate section of aluminum tool, shaped like a graduated cylinder that steps down from large at one end to very small at the other. It also has a conical shape on the large end for those tough intake spikes and similar shapes, and is marked for precise alignment.
Obviously, if you have any of these things, you don't need my, admittedly, inadequate descriptions, but even if you don't, you've seen at least one of these things in the magazines. What I'm trying to get a handle on is how people feel about these things. Do you use them a few times then go back to the tried and true needle-nose pliars? Or do you find them consistently helpful? Obviously, I've found them most useful for elaborate shapes, such a cockpit tubs and ejections seats, because I do aircraft. I can see that armor modelers, who have much larger PE parts to deal with, and face problems with kinking and wrinkling, like being able to screw their parts down and use the long blade to fold them up uniformly from one end to the other (for small parts they give you single-edge razor blades, but if you want the long folding blades, you pay dearly for these from the tool company. I suggest buying the long blades for folding at the hardware store at about a quarter the price). I recently used the long, straight side of one of these metal-folding tools to do a set of flaps for one wing of a 1/48 airplane model, and did the other side my old-fashioned way. There was no comparison. To make the long bends of short sections of metal required for flaps, the Hold and Fold and Etchmate were invaluable, while my needle-nose-made flaps for the other side had kinks and curves that didn't belong. Of course, when it comes to ribs, none of these tools will help one bit.
Anyway, whether you own and of this stuff, plan to own it, or, like my friend and modeling partner, find them impractical to the point of being patently ridiculous, I'd like to know your opinion. Thanks,
TOM
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Monday, April 18, 2005 10:05 PM
See: http://www.thesmallshop.com/reviews.htm for info on the Hold & Fold
See: http://www.etchmate.com/ for info on the Etch Mate

There is a comparison review online somewhere (do not ask me where, I won't tell you) that raised a lot of bad blood between the manufacturers and anyone unfortunate enough to mention they read said review.

A cursory search using a popular search engine and a few key words may help locate it.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:07 AM
All I can testify to personally is the Etchmate, which I consider to be a very nice piece of engineering. I have heard similarly enthusiastic comments about the Hold and Fold.

What makes the Etchmate nice (and I think this is also true of the Hold and Fold) is that the top portion - the one with the "fingers" - is slightly sprung so the leading edge of each finger always touches the base plate first and tightest. After slipping a piece of PE under the finger, a slight tightening of the screws snugs it down and the PE is held SOLID. Need to use the sides of the fingers? Just tighten a little more and the whole length is brought solid against the base plate.

They sell special blades for bending, but I have only used a razor blade to do the folding because I have been bending relatively small aircraft parts. I might machine a couple of custom bending blades when I get the chance. Also, you can turn the top part of the tool around and have a very long straight edge to bend long pieces of PE, as are sometimes found on armor or aircraft kits.

However, I must admit my experience is somewhat limitied as I only used it for a short time before I relocated. Now the tool is in storage in one state and I am in another. Still, I expect to use it frequently and with pleasure when I am once again reunited with my tools. For me it was well worth the price, but then I suffer from fat finger syndrome, so any help I can get dealing with PE is greatly appreciated.

In a nutshell, I believe from my experience that of others that both the Etchmate and the H&F are well engineered. I like having a larger one, but I probably could have made do with one of the small ones. I subscribe to the notion that it's better to have a larger bender and not need it than to need a larger bender and not have it.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:06 PM
Heya Tom,

I have "the Bug" and can tell you I love it. We both build planes, and we both are familiar with the tiny parts required from our scale PE and the bug works like a charm on those small parts (awesome on things like throttle quadrents). For some of the bigger things such as flaps and full on cockpit full side panels might be better to have a folder with a bigger footprint, I havent used The Bug in this capacity yet. I am very happy with my small folder and its quickly become a major part of my took kit.
I am not one bit put out on the bones I forked over for it, well spent.
Hope this helps you out... just decide what size you will need so you can just have one for all your uses... I know how much pe you have Wink [;)], a folder will be right up your ally
Jeff
  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: Nowhere. (Long Island)
Posted by Tankmaster7 on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:13 PM
the 4" hold and fold is excellent. I have it and use it all the time.
-Tanky Welcome to the United States of America, a subsidiary of Exxon Mobil Corporation, in partnership with Halliburton. Security for your constitutional rights provided by Blackwater International.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Cornebarrieu (near Blagnac), France
Posted by Torio on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:57 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Rob Gronovius

See: http://www.thesmallshop.com/reviews.htm for info on the Hold & Fold
See: http://www.etchmate.com/ for info on the Etch Mate

There is a comparison review online somewhere (do not ask me where, I won't tell you) that raised a lot of bad blood between the manufacturers and anyone unfortunate enough to mention they read said review.

A cursory search using a popular search engine and a few key words may help locate it.


It was in armorama ( http://www.armorama.com )
I personnally own a norwegian model made by a Mr Fynn Brinyslrud but he seems not to have any internet site at this moment; Jadar also makes a little model. I've heard here and there of other projects but they seem to have remained projects as for now.

Thank you all for coming José

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: Nowhere. (Long Island)
Posted by Tankmaster7 on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:21 PM
At my local competetition they were selling plastic versions of the hold and fold for 4 bucks a pop.
-Tanky Welcome to the United States of America, a subsidiary of Exxon Mobil Corporation, in partnership with Halliburton. Security for your constitutional rights provided by Blackwater International.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:33 PM
A brief history of PE tools:

The Small Shop (Pete Forrest) invented and started building the original Hold And Fold tool for sale in 1998, (refer to the November 1998 issue of FSM to see the first ad) well before the Etch-mate, it is an obvious, but overlooked fact that the etch-mate is based on the design (by John Tamkins own admission, btw Mission Models was a seller of Small Shop Products for nearly a year before entering the market with the Etch Mate in December 2002) of the Hold and Fold, specifically the 4" Hold And Fold ERT (extra reach tool head). The etch-mate added a couple of changes and then was brilliantly marketed with many large ads. At the time late 2002 early 2003 the small shop was struggling, initial success almost overwhelmed the one man company.
Since then the Small Shop has taken in some excellent partners and is now ran as a first rate company, advertising has been primarily by satisfied customers. Most importantly is the evolution of the Hold and Fold line of tools. Experience and user feed back has always been incorporated into new and improved designs for the PE user. The tools that the Small Shop sells today are based on genuine sheet metal working experience and many years of using PE.
I hope this post clarifies some common mis-perceptions about PE tools, it is not intended to influence anyone’s buying decision. Their are several PE tools on the market today and all seem to be based on the original Hold and Fold concept and all seem to be good at helping with the difficulties of PE. I encourage everyone to examine all the choices available and make an independent decision based on their own needs.
Model On!!!
Pete Forrest
The Small Shop

Links to websites supporting this information can be found on the net.

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Bicester, England
Posted by KJ200 on Thursday, April 21, 2005 6:28 AM
Tom I bought the 4" H&F from Small Shop EU in January as I was sick of forking out for PE, only to make a complete hash of it with pliers etc.

I went for the H&S because it looked more versatile than the Etchmate, don't know if it is, it just looked it.

I've only used it a couple of times, on items for a 1/72 Dornier interior, so we're talking pretty small here, and what a difference. Well worth the money, and it looks like it'll last a lifetime.

Karl

Currently on the bench: AZ Models 1/72 Mig 17PF

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 21, 2005 9:38 PM
RPForrest:
If you check this thread again, please drop me an email on the back channel.
Tom
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Florida...flat, beach-ridden Florida
Posted by Abdiel on Friday, April 22, 2005 3:34 PM
RPForrest

Thanks for the interesting history on the Small Shop. I bought the set containing the 4" hold and fold, rolling set and PE cutting station a few months ago and I found it to be one of the best investments I've ever made to my modeling tools collection! It's become an indispensible aid to my hobby. Thanks and best of luck!



  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:41 AM
I can't speak to the Etch mate, but I will say I LOVE my Hold & Folds. I have both the 4" and 8" models. The fingers do hit the base before the rest of the head, resulting in a very firm grip (you can pick the entire tool up by a small piece of clamped PE)! I believe the fingers are thinner too, especially on the new tools. And, you won't find better people to deal with.
  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Justinian on Monday, April 25, 2005 2:01 PM
I love the hold and fold. Great piece of machinery built by modelers for modelers.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 6, 2005 5:55 PM
Hi sharkskin.Sign - Ditto [#ditto]Sign - Ditto [#ditto]
I've been using a 4 inch hold and fold for the past 4 yrs since ths Small Shop came over to the IPMS UK Nationals in 2001, and since have purchased their rolling set which is one off the better items as it enables you also to form wire handles of various sizes from the milled out sections along two sides if the rolling set also included is two grooves to help you form the Aber tool clamps.
Recently I purchased the 2 inch hold and fold (the baby) as it lets you fold the smaller items of PE.
so my Favourite PE Folding device is the Small Shops Hold and Fold
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, May 8, 2005 3:16 PM
I have to admit, I've found the little one, called "The Bug," by Hold and Fold, to be the most useful tool to come along in quite a while. All four sides of it have different folding "fingers," and one side is a two-inch straight edget perfect for the longer folds.
I haven't figured out how to use the tie-down folder on the rolling tool. Can someone enlighten me. Maybe it's because I'm not an armor modeler, but we use those shapes too. I'm just not sure how to do it on that tool. Also, not that the Hold and Fold roller has the built in grab handle-bender for making uniform grab handles of any size. Saves you from buying an separate tool for it.
TOM
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