Airfix & Heller's SAINT LOUIS

Well, Airfix and Heller are the same company now, but I think you are right and that in the past when they were separate, they each had their own molds.  I have not seen the Heller model, but I have built the Airfix version long ago, and as I recall, it was a pretty good kit (with the exception of the sails, which I recall being molded styrene).  Also, I think the scale is larger on the Airfix kit, and a larger model makes for a bit more detail.  Prof Tilley is the expert in this area, and you might want to send him a message..... Anyone else familiar with these?

I can't help with this one.  I don't think I ever bought either kit.  I do remember examining the Airfix one in the box, and concluding that it was an excellent one.  (It was one of the last before the company got out of the sailing ship business - the same vintage as the Wasa, which, for its size, is surely one of the best plastic sailing ship kits ever.)  I'm pretty sure the sails were vac-formed; I don't think Airfix ever used injection-molded sails on any of its kits, other than the tiny ones.  (One partial exception:  I believe the initial release of the Endeavour, the very first of the "Airfix Classic" series, had furled sails molded integrally with the yards, but subsequent issues of that kit had vac-formed sails.) 

Pyro used to offer a Saint Louis of about the same size with injection-molded sails.  I think Lindberg is currently promoting that kit as a "pirate ship," with the name "Sir Henry Morgan" or something equally ridiculous.  I haven't seen that kit outside the box, but my guess is that it isn't serious competition for the Airfix one.

I vaguely remember a long-ago Forum exchange in which Michel VRTG, who knows the Heller line far better than I do, confirmed that the Heller Saint Louis was a different kit.  But I don't recall ever having seen it.

Later edit:  I found the earlier thread:  ttp://cs.finescale.com/forums/632609/ShowPost.aspx .    Sounds like the Heller kit scores over the others in having full-length guns on all decks, but in various other important respects the Airfix version is superior.  Those descriptions would be enough to make me buy the Airfix one.

I can help since I have both unbuilt kits in my collection. They are very different kits. The Airfix kit is at 1/144 scale while the Heller kit is 1/200 scale.  The Airfix kit suffers the same below decks armament issue as the other Airfix sailing ships with dummy ports and dummy cannons. The Heller kit has platforms and decks for the armament, which are full cannons.  The Heller kit has many more parts and is very detailed, although the Airfix kit is also very detailed. The Heller kit also has very heavily accentuated wood grain detail whereas the Airfix kit features planking detail with no heavy wood grain. Unfortunately, the Heller kit has separately molded upper works much like in the Soleil Royale kit, which must be cemented to the lower hull. This can be awkward. In contrast, the Airfix hull is molded as a unit in port and starboard halves. Finally, the Airfix kit has vacuform sails, not styrene plastic sails.

Both are very nice kits, though! I hope it helps!

Also, for those interested . . . I have posted a new response from Hornby Hobbies about Airfix releasing new sailing ship kits. They are planning a new release within two years. See their comment on the "Attention Sailing Ship Modelers" thread.

Bill Morrison

jtilley wrote:

I can't help with this one.  I don't think I ever bought either kit.  I do remember examining the Airfix one in the box, and concluding that it was an excellent one.  (It was one of the last before the company got out of the sailing ship business - the same vintage as the Wasa, which, for its size, is surely one of the best plastic sailing ship kits ever.)  I'm pretty sure the sails were vac-formed; I don't think Airfix ever used injection-molded sails on any of its kits, other than the tiny ones.  (One partial exception:  I believe the initial release of the Endeavour, the very first of the "Airfix Classic" series, had furled sails molded integrally with the yards, but subsequent issues of that kit had vac-formed sails.)  Pyro used to offer a Saint Louis of about the same size with injection-molded sails.  I think Lindberg is currently promoting that kit as a "pirate ship," with the name "Sir Henry Morgan" or something equally ridiculous.  I haven't seen that kit outside the box, but my guess is that it isn't serious competition for the Airfix one. I vaguely remember a long-ago Forum exchange in which Michel VRTG, who knows the Heller line far better than I do, confirmed that the Heller Saint Louis was a different kit.  But I don't recall ever having seen it. Later edit:  I found the earlier thread:  ttp://cs.finescale.com/forums/632609/ShowPost.aspx .    Sounds like the Heller kit scores over the others in having full-length guns on all decks, but in various other important respects the Airfix version is superior.  Those descriptions would be enough to make me buy the Airfix one.

Hello Professor!  Please have a look at the following thread, as i think you may be VERY interested!: One Outstanding minature sailing ship diorama, you got to see.

The Heller Saint Louis is based on their La Couronne kit, the latter is based on the Musee de la Marine plans, which is a reconstruction based on the book of Père Fournier. Heller used to make many fantasy shipmodel kits based on the same hull: this means that the first one is the original & the best kit: La Couronne, Le Phenix and Le royal Louis are the originals, so buy only them!!  L'indomptable, Le Gladiateur, La Sirene and Saint Louis are the phantasy ones, based on the original's hulls, so reject them!!

Airfix Saint Louis is a GOOD kit, it's based on the Wasa hull shapes which are reliable and representative of Dutch built ships in the 1st quarter of the 17th century. The Wasa capsized because her original design was a 2 decker (like the Saint Louis) but a 3rd deck was added during the building which made her top heavy and instable. The gravure of the Saint Louis clearly shows a vessel a '2 decks version of the Wasa'. My advise, stick to the Airfix kit and try to improve upon that by using details of the Wasa. I have plans for reconstructing the Saint Louis based on the gravure, the Wasa and other contemporary sourses & create a 1:87 resin model (kit).

 

Papillon. 

I am comparing and contrasting the Airfix St. Louis with the Heller version. I can see no discernable difference in the lines of the hull. I believe that the Heller kit is passable as the St. Louis and is not a fantasy kit.

Bill Morrison

Gentlemen, thank you for your kind and informative replies!

 I have yet another question (especially for warshipguy, since he bought the two kits) : some Heller kits are notoriously infamous for their hull design, which appears to be too shallow in some cases. I think for instance of the Soleil Royal, or the Galion/Stella/Corona/Elizabethan series. Is the St Louis of Heller plagued by the same defect? Does the hull seem realistic, or does it rather look like some experimental vessel built for shallow waters?

Once again, thxs a lot for your assistance!

There is no waterline marked on either kit. However, both hulls appear by sight to be formed very similarly, although the Heller kit has the heavily accentuated wood grain. The Airfix kit has more pronounced hull planks with no wood grain apparent, which is actually more prefered due to scale issues.  There are also some detail differences between the kits.  That said, I would opt for the Airfix kit as probably being more accurate.  Besides, it is larger (1/144 scale vs. 1/200 scale).  I hope that it helps!

Bill Morrison

Yep, it helped a lot! Thank you very much warshipguy! I'll follow your advice and start to hunt that Airfix St Louis!

Good luck!  The Airfix model can often be found on Ebay at reasonable prices.

Bill Morrison