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The Worlds BIGGEST ship ?

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  • Member since
    January 2016
  • From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posted by Sailor Steve on Sunday, May 29, 2016 9:14 PM

GMorrison

Since you're being snarky, Chris-

 

Cruise ships have sea water ballast, in considerable amounts. Like 1,000 tons.

An Olympic swimming pool would be something to see on a cruise ship. But it would be bad business practice- hard to stand with a cocktail in 2 meters of water.

Cruise ships do have desal plants, and they produce a lot of filtered water and hold it in very large tanks. Like 500,000 gallons.

As for submarines, they don't take on water to dive. They take on water ballast to go to neutral bouyancy. Then they rely on forward motion over their dive planes to dive.

Taking on water to dive could have disastrous consequences.

These "blow the tanks and pop out of the water" things are all show.

 

 

I frequent a forum dedicated to playing submarine simulation games. One of the complaints among players is that the sub dives too slowly, but if they select 'Crash Dive' it takes them all the way down to 70 meters before they level off, so they can't crash dive in shallow water. I am constantly pointing out what you just mentioned, where normal dives are concerned, but that in a crash dive the ballast tanks are filled, trim tanks pump 50 tons or more of water forward, and it takes a long time to recover from that condition. It's one or the other, and there ain't no free lunch.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: Vancouver, the "wet coast"
Posted by castelnuovo on Monday, May 30, 2016 12:14 AM

Cobra 427

Castelnuovo - I'm afraid that you don't know what you're talking about, let alone what I'M talking about. Ballast refers to anything that is taken on by a boat that needs to submerge in order to be unseen, and therefore "Stealthy". Since submarines are designed to be hollow they are full of air that can't be vacuumed out or the crew would die. The only way for the ship to submerge would be to take on more weight and the only way to do that is to have something that is quite heavy, available, and ready to be used at a moments' notice. This is of course the only thing that CAN be used, and that's the sea water around it. As the ships' ballast tanks fill with water this makes the entire ship sink downwards. This is controllable as the tanks can be filled and closed by controls at the seamens' control center where the Captain sits, and monitors his crew, and vessel.

In essence; the more water the deeper the vessel can go into the ocean as needed to evade the enemy around them. In a giant boat that is self-sufficient there's no need to add more water to it to make it heavier than it already is otherwise you'd have the first deck sink to the water line! There's no need for a desalination tank since these boats are filled with FRESH water when they leave port. Sure they have tanks for them, but the only fresh water used is for the showers, sinks, and drinking as well as the water the kitchens use. The toilets use the same type of sanitary system that airliners use - solid waste disposal units. The same with the used run-off from the sinks, showers, and kitchens. This is stored in tanks that are returned, and drained when the ship goes back to port. These cruises only last for one week, maybe two at the most. They aren't like aircraft carriers that can go to sea for months on end! Those are equipped to do so - not cruise ships. Another thing to consider: I had a 15' foot swimming pool that held 1,500 gallons of water. We used CLORINE to clean the pool with as this is the proper protocol when cleaning pools, and for maintaining their cleanliness.

It takes 8 HOURS to drain one of these through a one inch hole - imagine how long it would take to drain an olympic size swimming pool which holds about 660,000 gallons through a four inch hole! That's 5,280,000 LBS. of water to drain. No friend - they DON'T have an emergency protocol for emptying a swimming pool unless they're going to use it to put out a fire! Think about everything that I said - people, clothing, their belongings, the tables, chairs, equipment, carpeting, furnishings, tools, kitchen utensils, the kitchen staff, hotel staff, ships' crew, their belongings, clothing, tools, equipment, all the materials, and supplies that they keep on hand the ships brig - (yes there is a place for unruly customers), the infirmary, all their supplies, lighting for the whole ship and all its' wiring, glass, rubber, glue rivets, screws, wood, steel, aluminum (which is what is used to skin the upper decks now), fuel, as well as the engines themselves, the fuel inside them, the oil tanks, all that empty space means nothing!

The stabilizers are only five feet wide - that's not a lot of surface area to stabilize a boat of this size since there are only two on each side of the ship! It takes about two to three years just to refit one of these cruise liners. This is why cruise lines have more than one ship available so that they can keep making money if one of their fleet goes down. It's an astronomical figure to build one of these not to mention the five to ten years that it takes to plan, engineer, financially fund, and build one of these behemoth nightmares! Don't forget about the army of lawyers, and accountants, personal assistants, and secretaries that you'll need. The multitude of contractors, and goverment agencies that also get involved along with OSHA. There's a lot more to this than most people will ever know, or understand. A friend of mine and I were going to start our own cruise line funded by hotel casinos, and restauraunts - A HUGE MISTAKE!! It would've broken us both financially, and spiritually if we had gone through with it since the logistics of having to oversee so many employees, security staff, overhead bosses, as well as the money just to foot the bill for a new cruise liner, and hotel would've cost over $260,000,000 alone! Most of that for a new boat. Yes friends, there's a lot more that goes into this than you realise!

: ( <----- sad face  

 

~ Cobra Chris

 

Eyes rolling and head shaking...

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, May 30, 2016 7:39 PM

Cobra 427

...Since submarines are designed to be hollow they are full of air that can't be vacuumed out or the crew would die.

True. And vacuuming out the air would make the thing even more bouyant still.

 

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, May 30, 2016 7:47 PM

My understanding is that full seawater ballast tanks give subs a slight negative bouyancy. Once submerged they are trimmed to a very slight positive bouyancy, and drive around using their planes to control their depth.

In the event of a failure of some sort in the pumping system, you want to be on the surface getting bombed, not sitting on the bottom of the sea.

Getting WAY off topic here, my F-in-Law flew four hour out-four hour back missions. He said that on the return leg, if the aircraft was intact, they fly with a slight trim to climb on the elevators, and control level with the stick, so as not to fall asleep, pass out from wounds, etc.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, May 31, 2016 8:34 AM

Maybe I don't understand negative and positive bouyancy.  I assume from just general language that positive bouyancy means it floats. Is this incorrect?

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, May 31, 2016 11:20 AM

No, it's not incorrect. If a sub has a slight positive bouyancy, it will tend to rise to the surface. If the sub has forward speed and water is flowing over it's horizontal control surfaces, it can control its attitude and therefore its depth.

Submarines don't just go up and down by flooding their tanks or emptying them.

Empty tanks, they float, full tanks, they are fully submerged. Preferrably just below the surface and not visible to radar.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, June 1, 2016 9:31 AM
In reading up my facts before a couple of replies here, I learned a new term. Kentledge. A cast iron block used for ship ballast. So central to a ship design in the 18th C and apparently expensive, that it shows up as a line item right below cannons in appropriations applications for the USS Constitution.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

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