Model forum veterans, let me bend your ear.

HK I think I can understand your heart on this. I too dislike the hobbys detractors and constant flow of negative bashing.

There is nothing wrong with giving comments as to a kits pros and cons. But many of those comments you are referring to do go well beyond the limit of usefulness. These detailed comments should be directed in writing toward the manufacturer, whereas only a cursorary comment should appear here.

Many of those who routinely comment negatively do so on other forums too. The problem lies in that these parties use various aliases on other forums so it sounds as if more people are talking down a kit than actually is. Also remember that only a fraction of those who enjoy this hobby and the offerings it provides (even those terrible kits being comment so negatively about) are not "hooked up" and involved in any way with the Internet. The still read print on paper! Manufacturers respond to demand...as long as their is a demand for their products they will continue to produce and sell them. There is a market for everything at each level of quality and pricepoint.

It unfortunately is the negative vocal minority that gets heard loudly and far too often...one has to have thick skin and sometimes an even thicker skull to ignore these comments. My guess is many make the statements they make are to provoke a reaction.  it has nothing to do with the subject at hand more than a way to spark attention. They sit back and get off at those who feed them.

I can remember the bashing the Dragon Mustang got...I built two! Why, because they were good kits...not great but good. Given the pricepoint they were a bargain...even the comments about the poor quality of the 21C kits has been rebuffed somewhat...after a few real modelers built them and showed the others what real potential they have. I can remember purchasing models back in the day that were a whole lot less, for more money. Looking back they were "less than stellar" but they were the only show in town. Just as some of the kits of today are considered, yet that doesn't stop modelers from purchasing and building them...note I said modelers not assemblers. If you want a model of that certain subject, you'll probably purchase what's available regardless, even if you could do better with a bar of soap and a knife.  We might not build it, but it will grace our stash.

There are food snobs, coffee snobs, wine snobs, single malt snobs and yes model kits snobs...let them complain while the rest of us buy and build what they turn their noses away from. Even such bare basic models as the old Aurora airliners if rereleased would receive criticism as to how "bad" they are, yet they would fly off the store shelves because of the subject and scale they represent.

We all must ask ourselves: Am I a scale modeling snob / elitist? Are there model kits beneath my "standards" of acceptability? One mans trash is another mans treasure. For those who bought and bashed a model kit and refuse to build it...send it to me...I'll find it a good home.

You made some valid observations.

As modelers, we should be up to the task of problem solving, rather than complaining.  When I think how my grandfather built countless Strombecker kits, and what was actually supplied in the box, I'm amazed any builder can complain about any plastic kit! I mean, can they do better? Do they realize what it takes to bring a kit to market? I think not. But it's always easier to bash than for one to actually try to engineer a solution to their problem.

I've been here around five years, and I've seen things steadily go downhill in the attitude department. There are some hotheads who come here with their short fuses, just looking for a brawl. Who needs that? I suspect some don't actually enjoy this hobby as much as they claim to!

So, yes, I understand your point.

we all are guilty of being neg. at one time or other

i know i have been more than neg sometimes.  many times

i do understand your view but....

at the same time as with all things in life good comes with the bad

stick with us 

all things good/bad will pass and the world  (or the forum) will be better

Modeling as an art form seems to bring out a different standard of behavior in people. I like art in general and enjoy visiting art museums.

When I go to an art museum I like looking at a painting and letting it transport me to what is depicted. For example if I'm looking at a western painting I let it transport me back in time to the old west scene that's being depicted. It gets my imagination going and I start to think about the sights, sounds, and smells of that era. If I'm looking at a piece of impressionistic art I try to get a feel of what the artist is conveying. So on and so forth. I don't scrutinize a painting looking for faults. In the hundreds of times I've been in art museums I can't recall ever seeing someone do that either. I've had many great conversations with fellow art viewers about the piece we wereboth looking at.

At model shows and contests I noticed that people tend to look for faults, inaccuracies. When I see a model of a Tiger tank I let it transport me back to WW2. I thnk about what it must have been like to live, fight, and die in a machine like that. When I mention how great it is to a fellow attendee more often than not (I'd say 8 time out of 10 in my own experience) they start to point out all the things that are wrong or inaccurate about it.

To me that's kind of a bummer. Perhaps I'm missing the whole point of modeling. The reason I model is because I love history, especially WW2. For me modeling is a vehicle for me to bring that history to life. I'm German American. I was born in Hanau Germany and spent the first 18 years of my life in Bruchkobel. Went to German schools and was raised German. I immigrated here when I was 18. My mother is German and my father is American. Modeling is a way for me to connect to my families history. My grandfather on my fathers side was in the USCG during WW2. He drove landing craft at Omaha beach in Normandy and at Iwo Jima. His brother Jack was in the Marines and fought in the Phillipines before being taken prisoner and dying in a POW camp at the hands of the Japanese. His sister Mary built B-24 bombers as a Rosie the Riveter. My Grandma was in the Nurses Corps and served in Honolulu. On my mothers side my Opa was in the Wehrmacht and he manned a machine gun nest on Omaha beach on D-Day! My grandparents fought against each other in one of the great battles of WW2. It was wonderful when we had a family reunion, the stories they'd tell each other. My Opa fought for the Third Reich all the way to the Hurtgen forest before becming wounded and finishing out the war in a hospital in Dresden. Which is where he met my Oma, she worked in a factory in Dresden during WW2. I have 3 great uncles on my mothers side, my Opa's brothers. Karl was also in the Wehrmacht, he fought on the Eastern front and was captured when the 6th Army Group surrendered at Stalingrad. He didn't return home from the war until 1957. He didn't even know the war was over until 1955. Friedrich was in the Totenkopf SS and worked in concentration camps. Werner was Gestapo and after the war we didn't hear from him until his death in 1987. When a lawyer in Argentina sent his diary and personal effects to us in Bruchkobel. My Oma's parents, brother, and 2 sisters were killed in the fire bombing of Dresden. She was the sole survivor of her family.

So for me modeling is a way to connect to the past, my past. The way I see modeling is as an art form that keeps history alive, that allows us to connect with the past. Perhaps that's wrong and the guys that strive for absolute accuracy are right. Personally speaking I'm happy being wrong. When I look at a model B-17 I remember my Oma telling me how she hated hearing the sound of their engines. How as a young terrified woman she clutched her pet dog and ran for the air raid shelter. How she used to feel the vibrations and judge how close the bombs were dropping to her house. Other modelers look at a B-17 model and nitpick the paint scheme, the details, or whatever.

When I see a model of a landing craft I think of my grandfather, a bosuns mate piloting the craft towards a hostile beach. The craft filled with scared young Americans. The responsibility he carried as a young man. The guilt he still feels to this day for the men he delivered to their deaths. Or my Opa, peering through the slit at hundreds of landing craft heading for his position. How he told his gun crew that the war was lost and they should burn up this ammunition and get out of there. If the markings aren't 100% accurate, if there's a rivet missing, or if there's a run in the paint it doesn't bother me. The model did what I wanted it to do, it took me back in time. Gave me something tangible to hold that helps me understand what it was like. I've heard the stories, now I can conect them to something real. I find that rewarding in a visceral way. It brings me closer to understanding why. I can hold it in my hand and hold it at eye level,looking at it from the bow to see what my Opa saw. I can turn it around and look at it from the stern to see what my grandpa saw. It fulfills that need I have to try and connect with WW2. Without that terrible war I wouldn't be here. My brother and sister wouldn't be here. It shaped this generation of my family. Any understanding I have of it fills a void within me.

I think it comes down to what does modeling mean to you? What motivates you to model?

I hope the above makes some sense.

Woo...What a write up, Dew!! And I do agree... Or, most of the time..

 

I'm obsessed with WWII history and I learn something new every day... I'm active in restoring a German WWII fort (Kvalvik Fort, German WWII fort number 5824/9o3e, if you know the numbers ) and I am also becoming a guide for it. It's quite rare to see a 17 (In two weeks) year old boy this obsessed with it.. I even wear the M43 German fieldcap as a regular cap (Unbaged, of course!).

 I'm not like into only knowing about the "cool thompson" or the "awsome sherman" and only the "cool" (Now I'm not actually into WWII US) equipment... I know alot about the equipment and such, but I do know >ALOT< about the history as well.

When I model I do like to get things accurate, but I also model because, well, I am obsessed. But also to aid my love to it.

I would also like to point out that I'm not as many others of my age that "WWII is cool. It's fun to kill" and such (Of course I am exagerating now.. but it aids the effect). I "know" how it is to be in war...   "know" as in that I think of it almost every day, sometimes drivesme to tears..

Your family WWII story is quite extrodinary... I, myself, would neither have been here if it was not of the war.. Altough not as "immpresive" and "widespread as your story, my Grandpa on my fathers side lived in Trondheim. He was a big guy, huge hands, and very strong...   When the Germans took Norway, grandpa had to work on the famous Dora U-boat bunkers in Trondheim.

Before I tell what my grandpa did, I will mention he did see alot in Trondheim.. Mosquito crash (The first to the crashsite, Pilots head hung there only by a piece of skin still to the body) and took one of his gloves, which I and my dad don't know where is..   Inside it said "Scott", and I'm still searching for a Mosquito pilot that died in Trondheim who was named Scott....    And he did see alot of different things.

My grandpa said to a German guard that there were some problems just around this corner...  You may already see where this is leading...    He took the German around the corner and gave him one right on the face.. And my grandpa then escaped to Sweden. My grandpa joined the Policetroops. If you haven't heard of them, don't be ashamed.. They were the "biggest" of the "untold" stories of WWII..I've personally done an article on them to teach others.. You find it on my own forum where I publish these things to the public.. Direct link: http://ttgaming.freeforums.org/the-police-troops-norway-sweden-during-wwii-t10.html#18

Hope you take a look... I also have some original militaria pictures from my grandpa there as well.

So my grandpa went to the north and as the war closed to an end, he actually captured 7-8 German soldiers in a bunker..

He also had a brother who saw some WWII action... but not familiar to his story as per days date. My grandpa on mothers side was only 9 years at the time...  But during the may-days of 1945, he met the policetroops

Back in Sweden, he met my grandma and they gave birth to my dad. When he was 4, they moved to Norway and here I am.... Grandpa died in '95, when I was only 3 years

Grandpa tought my dad WWII history and modelmaking... My dad tought it to me... And here I am, 17 years old and teaching people about WWII

 

 So as said, I model for accuracy. But mostly authenticy and history. So now you all know my story...  And hope it all makes sense!

 

Thanks,

-Huxy

I have run into this multiple times and I have very stong opinions about it.

Frist, honestly, there should be a seperate forum with only pinned topics about how to do the most basic of things that people ask.  Comprisons between airbrushes, quality of one line of kit against another, how to fix seamlines, how to apply decals, how to prime a kit, how to make snap kits unsnappable.  This forums should be directed to when someone signs up for a new account, go over to the new people area, introduce yourself, then go there to see if any of your questions are already answered.

I have on more then a few nights stoped myself from jumping on someone else's topic and just derailing it horribly about something someone said, but I stop myself, thankfully.

As far as getting hostile about things... I post my gundam work on www.bakuc.com There are a few there who respect me, what I do (though my work is subpar on that site) and the knowledge I have (you know the saying, 'those who can not do, teach',  I believe I fall into that category for most things.)  There are some, fitchenfoo for example, that say things like, direct quote "Pro Modeler Tip: Ignore Smeagol" because I have been worn down to basicly ignoring snapped and just pannel lined kits, and SCREAMING! at the people who paint kits without fixing the seam lines.  SEAMLINES SEAMLINES SEAMLINES SEAMLINES EVERYWHERE!!!

My Brass methods teacher would be proud of me, because he has the same mentality I do.  There are fundimentals to everything that you MUST master before moving onto harder things.  If you cant read music, you shouldnt move on to trying to perform a piece.  If you dont know how to fix seams, you shouldnt move onto painting.  If you havent trained you should try and run a marathon, if you cant type, you shouldnt try to learn C++.

 

As far as the WWII stuff, Huxy, Im right with you.  I tend to like to focus on the really, just the worst details about it.  The camps (on all 3 fronts, american camps, russian camps, and german camps) the atomic bombs on japan, things of that nature, because im a subscriber to the mentality 'History forgotten is history repeated' (paraphrased).  I have gotten into many, many discussions about this, sometimes arguments. 

I had to take a class about 'justice in a pluralistic society' worst class ever, we did 2 days on the Japanese internment (to lead to should there be reperations for slavery).  I raised my hand and started talking, I believe I taught the class for one of those two days.  Informed the nice people who much of a slippery slope the US was on during WWII.  Look at it, America, we took 'threats' to our national securty (Japanese) and put them in camps to live and work.  The Russians are the next tier, they took 'threats' to their national security (anyone the secret police felt like) They put them in camps and worked them to death in siberia.  They didnt take as good care of them as we did ours, but they did give them moderate living conditions and food, though they worked them to death.  Then you have Germany, Took 'threats' to their national security (you know the list, jews, poles, czecs, slavs, gypsies, gays, mentaly disabled, russians, communists, etc, etc) put them in camps, and executed them.  The ones they didnt they worked to death, or starved to death, etc, etc.  Think about it like that, we were on one damned slippery slope. (Want some good reads on this that arent straight history books, check out 'one day in the life of Ivan Denisovich' for russia and 'Maus' is a great one for germany (its done in quite an interesting way, compared to most.

I get asked more then not why I'm a music major and not a history major.

As far as my family goes.  My grand father and great grand father were both in the us army, so was my great uncle, and some others I cant quite remember.  Alot of my family.  My grandfather drove transport boats (not PT boats) in the pacific.  My great uncle lost his leg as a paratrooper in the air.  Another uncle, I believe, was the first to sign up in philadelphia to go to war, but before he was shipped out a drunk hit his car, causing him perminant mental damage.  I was recently given two WWII medals from my dad, dunno whos they are exactly.  I dunno exactly what they are for, so ill see if you guys can tell me. 

Thank you for sharing Huxy. That's a very interesting article, I especially like the helmet design. You're very lucky in that you can be proud of your family history. There is still a sense of shame in Germany over the Nazis and WW2. A lot of it rightfully earned I will admit. In America veterans can wear their uniform on special occasions. My Opas Wehrmacht uniform or my uncles SS uniform have never seen the light of day since the war. In many ways that is understandable, however they did fight for their country. They did sacrifice a lot for Germany. All that is buried under a heavy blanket of national shame. In many ways I find that sad.

Please note I am not saying that the Nazis were great people or that their cause was just.

Perhaps the best explanation I ever heard for WW2 was that through chance a bunch of egomaniacs came to power (Roosevelt, Hirohito, Mussolni, Churchill, Stalin, Hitler) simultaneously and took advantage of a generation of impressionable youths to play a sick game of global chess. That's how my German history teacher explained WW2 to us.

I remember in 1997 we had a family reunion in Normandy France. It was my family, my Oma and Opa and my Grandpa and Grandma. My father, Opa, Grandpa and I went around to the war cemetaries there. First we went to the Allied cemetary. It was big, grand, monumental. A victors graveyard. My grandpa had a long list with him. It was a list of men that had rode in his landing craft to Omaha beach and died. He went around to each grave to say a prayer and plant a American flag. Then we went to the German cemetary. It was small, crowded, and not as nicely kept. It felt like a shameful place. I watched as my Opa went around to graves of his friends. He too said a prayer and planted a German flag. A lot of them were boys he grew up with. Went to school with. Joined the Wehrmacht with. In both instances it was so sad to think how much of a generation was wasted.

Thanks and nice you like the article! =)   I am kind of proud that I'm in family with someone from the police troops...

 

For the rest, I can only mention one quote...

"Winners write the historybooks"

 

SS reputation is way overnazified...  Only the few of them were actually nazis... Most were soldiers.. Simply put...   Many Norwegians, from the Frw. Legion Norwegen and 11.SS and more, joined the SS to fight the "Bolschevik horde" which they feared.. Joining the SS was the only way to get to them...

I can go on forever..but yeah...  You get my point

 

-Huxy

I agree a little.  Most of the chronic complainers will stay for a short time and disappear.  As far as the same questions being asked.  Isn't answering those questions for the next generation of modelers what we are here for.  To incourage them to get better and sooth their ego when it doesn't come out perfect.  I for one would love if my son or daughter would ask me questions about modeling.  Heck even if one of their friends wanted to talk or one of my friends who never or hasn't built for a long time wanted some info I would be willing to help.

Its not that I'm saying everything is right or wrong.  But if we don't encourage others to continue this hobby then it will fade away.  And we cannot let that happen.

I'm certainly no nitpicker by any standards. I would probably consider myself more an "assembler" than I would a real modeler since my skills are still pretty limited. Even when I have first hand knowledge of a kit, I really wouldn't go as far as to bash it by any means. Partly because I think my inexperience limits my credibility, but also as pointed out that it is often the aforementioned "one mans treasure". To each their own.

 

   I have two major interests that drive me to modeling. I foster a fascination for machines and technology, and an obsession for history. So, it kinda fits. Mountain Dew, I have to say that your Grandfathers and your Omas personal accounts of the War (as tragic as they were) were pretty fascinating. Throughout many of the books and personal narretives I've read on the subject matter, you don't find many that come from the Axis side. The 4 years I was stationed in Germany (I was at Fliegerhorst Kaserne right there in Hanau where you were born), I was kinda an unusual guy in the barracks; in that I would much rather find and go to the places that have historical significance and see those than just hit Sachenhausen every weekend like everybody else. I'd take a Wochenkarte and just ride the train system over the weekend and look at the countryside and just talk to the German people (at least the ones who would talk with me, that is).

   What does all this have to do with modelling? Not much, i guess. Except that in most cases a fascination for history goes hand in hand with modeling. I guess I'm more like Mountain Dew in that it tends to take me back more into that given era. Almost like paying homage to what that subject represents and remember. The last thing I really care about is a third parties opinion whether it's a good kit or not. After all, standards differ from person to person, and there are those who complain just to hear themselves complain. That's where the thick skin and skull come in.  Bottom line in dealing with this and other forums- take what you want out of it, disregard the rest and don't sweat the small stuff.

 

smeagol the vile wrote:

.  I was recently given two WWII medals from my dad, dunno whos they are exactly.  I dunno exactly what they are for, so ill see if you guys can tell me.

The medal on the left is the World War II Victory Medal, the one on the right is the European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal. The WWIIVM was presented to anyone who served during wartime in WWII, the EAMECM was presented to service members who participated (in any measure) in any of those campaigns. They are called "geedunk" medals in the Navy and I believe they are called something like "been there" medals nowadays.

subfixer wrote:

smeagol the vile wrote: .  I was recently given two WWII medals from my dad, dunno whos they are exactly.  I dunno exactly what they are for, so ill see if you guys can tell me.  The medal on the left is the World War II Victory Medal, the one on the right is the European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal. The WWIIVM was presented to anyone who served during wartime in WWII, the EAMECM was presented to service members who participated (in any measure) in any of those campaigns. They are called "geedunk" medals in the Navy and I believe they are called something like "been there" medals nowadays.

Thanks for the info!

HK, I haven't been around as long as you have, but I see it too. But you gotta remember, just like real life, there's people who are uninformed and ignorant. The best you can do is make your reccomendations and try to steer the stupidity away. Like your example of the Hobbycraft/Trumpeter Mustang... a 1/32 scale kit for $35? If I built that scale, I'd jump all over it. So what if it's not accurate? All it takes is a couple added details to make it look real nice! But, the instant gratification mentality has taken over... blah blah blah getting off subject...

 Smeagol, I totally disagree with your idea for a "n00b page". I'm a member of a VW forum. Almost every question I've asked has at least one person respond with "Search". Quite frankly, it gets irritating. What if I have searched? What if I don't know the magic words? What if the only other post on the topic is 5 years old? As far as compiling a list, do you know how many topics there would be to go through a "n00b crash course" for this forum? Personally, I wouldn't read it all. My post count has a lot of questions in it. I mean a lot. And some members have been very happy to answer my questions. Others haven't. And that's ok! If you want to answer, answer! If not, don't. Say I ask about a good airbrush when two months ago someone else asked the same thing: Some people will answer, someone will probably dig up the topic and post it, and others won't bother. That's the beauty of this place... all my questions have been answered in a polite, informative way. That's why I keep coming back. No one's ever said just "Search" or  come at me with a snappy, jerky remark like on the VW forum. And I like that feeling.

RadMax8 wrote:

Smeagol, I totally disagree with your idea for a "n00b page". I'm a member of a VW forum. Almost every question I've asked has at least one person respond with "Search". Quite frankly, it gets irritating. What if I have searched? What if I don't know the magic words? What if the only other post on the topic is 5 years old? As far as compiling a list, do you know how many topics there would be to go through a "n00b crash course" for this forum? Personally, I wouldn't read it all. My post count has a lot of questions in it. I mean a lot. And some members have been very happy to answer my questions. Others haven't. And that's ok! If you want to answer, answer! If not, don't. Say I ask about a good airbrush when two months ago someone else asked the same thing: Some people will answer, someone will probably dig up the topic and post it, and others won't bother. That's the beauty of this place... all my questions have been answered in a polite, informative way. That's why I keep coming back. No one's ever said just "Search" or  come at me with a snappy, jerky remark like on the VW forum. And I like that feeling.

Some of the mosy oft-asked questions here, eg. "What's the best tpaint hinning ratio" and "I sprayed my model with Tamiya flat base and it turned white. What happened" appear time after time,  yet they will always get an answer, often by the same people who have answered it countless times before. That is one of the great things about this place.

I'm not saying compile 100 pages worth of it, just cover the basics that get asked 1000 times.  I like things being compiled.  I think there should be a thread just where peole post online reference shots.  Not the forum, just one thread with posts like

Tiger I, Zim

<link>

<link>

<link>

But I have run into this in every forum I run into.  Yes, its great to ask questions, but there should be a ready guide, like a handbook, for this stuff.  Face it, alot of us here know how to, but after a while it gets tedious to explain it over and over and over.

I don't mind the idea as long as it's done reasonably. I visit a motorcycle forum that has an entire library of info that's good for the beginner as well as the veteran. It works well and people are kindly directed to the info on a regular basis. I'm no noob and I go there from time to time to look up problems I need help with. A benefit is the result is instant without having to wait for an answer from someone else.

It only makes sense to put up some sort of similar area here to gather up and keep a lot of the techinical info we see asked everyday. Specific problems and questions can be handled in the regular forums. But it's not my board.

 

One of the things I have noticed with any resource is people find it easier to ask the question over and over again...why because it is easier than looking it up themselves. In this "instant gratification" mentality we as a society have become acustom to, why look when you can ask. The ole attage you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink is also true with information...people just don't know how to look anything up these days...and when the information is provided, they don't read it anyway.

Publishers such as Kalmbach understand this...they publish a first class trade magazine for the hobby retailers, yet a majority of its subscribers (it is FREE by the way) don't pick it up and read it. Though when surveyed they tell the staff what they want information about...then they whine that the information was never provided...yet it is in between the covers of the magazine as requested for them to reference...they just don't take the time to read it.

Each issue should be accompanied with this guy...to get their attention.

 

Part of it is the nature of the forum.  It is like a very large virtual model club.  Imagine a model club where new members come in and every time they asked a question that has already been asked "like a 1000 times before" they were directed to a large table filled with books and told to look it up themselves.  I doubt very many would keep coming back.  When someone asks a question here, they are usually engaging in conversation as much as trying to find information.

HawkeyeHobbies wrote:

One of the things I have noticed with any resource is people find it easier to ask the question over and over again...why because it is easier than looking it up themselves. In this "instant gratification" mentality we as a society have become acustom to, why look when you can ask. The ole attage you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink is also true with information...people just don't know how to look anything up these days...and when the information is provided, they don't read it anyway.

I think a major problem with forums, and a major cause of repeat questions is one and the same. The software. While FSM's BBCode forum search works, barely, most other forum searches do not work at all.  I frequent 10-15 forums, mostly model related.  Of these, I have had a successful search on 4 of them.  I know that it is not that I don't know how to look stuff up...I was a library clerk for 7 years, 3 in HS, 4 in college.  I can tell you more about the Dewey decimal system, paper card files, computerized search paths, and search and seek algorithms than you would EVER want to know.  Yet, I can only get any sort of search result on 4/15ths of the forums...on a good day.

Case in point: how many people know that in order to successfully search the FSM forums, you have to type your keywords into the search bar, then click the search button.  If you hit enter, the entire page reloads, and DOES NOT SEND A SEARCH QUERY.  So, for all intents and purposes, if you do the natural thing, it appears that your search has returned 0 results, and people give up. This isn't a people-can't-do-it thing, this is a the-software-is-broken thing. Granted there are plenty of people who just ask without taking the time, but common courtesy requires the decent sort to respond helpfully.

On a related note, I recently posted a question about resin casting...before hand I spent quite a while searching the forums, and reading the results of my searches.  However, I felt that my case was slightly different, so I posted a question that, to someone in the know, probably felt like a repeat.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who justifies their questions that way.

All in all, the reason why I spend SO much more time here than anywhere else is what Radmax said...the people...the community.  You won't get told to go find the answer yourself, someone will help you, whether its your first post or your ten thousandth.  I have real friends here, though I've never met any of them in real life (yet).

Since I'm on painkillers, I'll make a faux pas...I'll name sites...ARC, Hyperscale, Aeroscale... These are places that I go to for information, to buy and sell kits, and to help others...but I don't go there for friendship or camraderie.  I've never been in a single GB anywhere but here, because this community is stable, and while it can get fiery at times, on the whole, people are not looking for a fight.  So, my advice to anyone feeling the way HK does: follow along on other forums...post when you can help...don't read the inflammatory threads...come back here when it gets too hairy elsewhere.

HTH!

Cheers,
Alex

I'm just grouchy by nature... But one thing that will set me off is when a nugget asks for advice on something, and someone else answers with a very detailed and logical way to carry off something in order to make the project look better for the nugget, and some clown will chime in with "Just build for yourself and don't worry about what other people think of what you're doing"...

That kind of "advice" is really NO advice at ALL... It helps the nugget improve in NO way... If you can help the guy out, help him.  If you have nothing constructive, insightful, or helpful to add to conversation, please shut up...

In my opinion, if you're getting aggravated by some new guy asking for help--no matter how many times a day that same posted question is asked--then you need a break from this--or any--forum.

You only have the perspective that you have from being here for a while. When a new guy comes in, he doesn't have the experience of seenig that same question or critique posted--so he posts it. If you would begrudge anyone that right, then take a break and regain your perspective.

I feel that legitamate critiques are useful but bashing is not.All real modelers have to correct problems and/or inacuracies in kits from time to time.The problem seems to be that we expect all kits to have the level of quality of Tamiygawa.Not a realistic expectation.Some of the older tooling(Like the Monogram P-61)does suffer from fit problems but you have to consider the age of the tooling.I like objective reviews that  give the modeler a heads up about any major problems a kit may have but not a rant.

I for one don't mind answering the same questions over and over again for new people on the forum. There's nothing better for me than helping someone new to the hobby. That's how we make the hobby grow.

Additionally, while most answers are the same, once in a while I read a comment with a new technique or something explained in a new way. For example, comparing airbrushes, new ones comes out, model changes, so I can't see how a pinned FAQ will be up-to-date. Rigging WWI aircraft, I've read many explainations, and once it a while I read a new one. Not that I'm not for a FAQ page, it would be very useful for things that don't readily go out of date.

I think like all things, if you find yourself short on patience, time to take a break. It's a hobby afterall and should be fun.

Hans von Hammer wrote:

I'm just grouchy by nature... But one thing that will set me off is when a nugget asks for advice on something, and someone else answers with a very detailed and logical way to carry off something in order to make the project look better for the nugget, and some clown will chime in with "Just build for yourself and don't worry about what other people think of what you're doing"... That kind of "advice" is really NO advice at ALL... It helps the nugget improve in NO way... If you can help the guy out, help him.  If you have nothing constructive, insightful, or helpful to add to conversation, please shut up...

I'm with Hammer here. So irritating.

Thanks for the advice guys. Good for the head.

hkshooter wrote:

Hans von Hammer wrote: I'm just grouchy by nature... But one thing that will set me off is when a nugget asks for advice on something, and someone else answers with a very detailed and logical way to carry off something in order to make the project look better for the nugget, and some clown will chime in with "Just build for yourself and don't worry about what other people think of what you're doing"... That kind of "advice" is really NO advice at ALL... It helps the nugget improve in NO way... If you can help the guy out, help him.  If you have nothing constructive, insightful, or helpful to add to conversation, please shut up... I'm with Hammer here. So irritating. Thanks for the advice guys. Good for the head.

Just build for yourself and don't worry about what other people think..lol...

Just build for yourself and don't worry about what other people think..lol...

I am not a model forum veteran but would like to put my perspective here.

When I ask for help I would appreciate (and have received) a good answer. To be told not to sweat the small stuff is indeed not very helpful, if I were not sweating the small stuff I wouldn't have asked. Yes, it may seem you have answered the same question thousands of times but not for me, this is the first time I have asked. A new guy like me may not get the or an answer he is seeking by using the search for many reasons. Let's say I needed help with my decals silvering ( I don't ) a quick search looking for say "Decals" may not give many responses because the questions were asked, "HELP!", "A question", Why can't I. . ." "What do you do. . ." etc. So I would go and ask for help in techniques. A person new to the hobby may not know how to phrase the question, using my silvering example, they may just post "I hate decals!" or "I stink!" Threads like that are not likely to be even read by forum vets, let alone get a response, a helpful response. I guess I am saying, there are reasons you see the "same question asked 1,000 times". Remember though, the one who posted it hasn't asked it 1,000 times and is really seeking help, if you want to help, please do so, if not, don't. A snide remark or wise acre response may go far to show your wit, but doesn't help the guy that is looking to you to get it.

 

Will

hkshooter wrote:

Hans von Hammer wrote: I'm just grouchy by nature... But one thing that will set me off is when a nugget asks for advice on something, and someone else answers with a very detailed and logical way to carry off something in order to make the project look better for the nugget, and some clown will chime in with "Just build for yourself and don't worry about what other people think of what you're doing"... That kind of "advice" is really NO advice at ALL... It helps the nugget improve in NO way... If you can help the guy out, help him.  If you have nothing constructive, insightful, or helpful to add to conversation, please shut up... I'm with Hammer here. So irritating. Thanks for the advice guys. Good for the head.

I'll take Devil's Advocate position and defend the statement as being "advice."  The constructive tips are good, but we don't want the newbies to become so bogged down in "improving" that they literally stop for fear of screwing something up.

I've seen builders on several forums get to this stage, when they are so concerned about doing it the "right" or "correct" way they get nothing accomplished.  In those cases, the constructive criticism or tips have worked against them.  

It's great to strive for improvement, but it's more important to keep this all in perspective and realize it's just a hobby.

As far as asking the same questions over and over again, I'm guilty of wanting to fire back at the person to use the search function.  Yes, it's crap on this forum, but that's still no excuse.  I was raised to go look up the answer for myself before asking, and I expect others to at least make the effort.  If someone would preface their question with a notation that they had made the effort and found x and y but couldn't find z, that would make all the difference.  Otherwise it just laziness and an expectation for others to do work for them.  I see it all the time in the real world, and Hawkeye nailed it that this is a societal issue.  But that's my , if it is in fact worth that!