From what I've read on here since 2007 it seems that people come and go for a lot of reasons---least of which I'm guessing has to do with fur-rubbing...

My interest in the hobby comes and goes. Currently and for some time, it has went. Add to that a couple of years ago it seemed popular to start up threads that had zero to do with modelling and everything to do with rubbing fur backwards and post count. It got old and ended O&E.

Rob Gronovius

Some guys feel the need to post just to post something. Sort of like the dude who tries to start a conversation with you while you're using the urinal.

So you won't be doing the Manstein Roast this year?

ModelNerd

 

Hercmech:

 

Woww pretty harsh

 

 

Yes, the truth does occasionally hurt, doesn't it?

don't know still waiting to hear some. . . forums are like lawyers

Looks like the weekend has officially started.

OTOH  I have noted that many other forums don't post the non-modeling threads described on the previous page, but also don't post very many model related discussions.

In spite of any perceived drop in active members, this forum is far busier ( modeling specific posts ) than many others.

Hercmech

Woww pretty harsh

Yes, the truth does occasionally hurt, doesn't it?

Well, I thought it was amusing.

I don't suppose it could be the other way around.....

Woww pretty harsh

Manstein's revenge

 

 

Bad analogy...don't get it.  So do you check the Forum only when relieving yourself? Were you sitting on the toilet when you typed that? 

 

I think  comments like this exemplify why the "long timers" have for the most part left this Forum.

I enjoy humor as well as the next guy, but this comment wasn't really even all that funny. Or relevant to the conversation. It's juvenile potty talk, at best. Post count fodder, at worst. Who really needs it?

But yes, this is a public forum, bla bla bla, and (unfortunately) open to even the self-centered man-children who crave endless attention, with way too much time on their hands, and will say or do about any kooky thing to get it, at the expense of screwing the place up for everyone (which they have, and quite handily).

Seems few have the desire anymore to channel their efforts into useful or otherwise positive endeavors.

Rob Gronovius

I've been on this forum for nearly a decade. It could be a factor of just not having anything to post. Some guys feel the need to post just to post something. Sort of like the dude who tries to start a conversation with you while you're using the urinal.

I've been on this forum for nearly a decade. It could be a factor of just not having anything to post. Some guys feel the need to post just to post something. Sort of like the dude who tries to start a conversation with you while you're using the urinal.

If I have something to add, I'll do so. If not, I keep to myself until I have the need to post a question, answer one, or post a photo of a kit.

I come on here now and then but since I have been working overseas for the past five years I have very little to contribute. I don't have a space big enough to work on a model or the time. One of these days though I may be able to share and join in.

iraqiwildman

It's all Manny's fault.

Haha lol, ain't nobody 'old' around here when you're on a forum I would say,

But in my, I think 6 months that I've been here, I allready seen alot of guys just coming onto this forum and like post one little thing and never come back again, or maybe like 7posts and dissappear back to the vastness of the internet.

Uhhggg. There they go with the "Old" thing again.

Echo139er

A Facebook post by FSM staff, blew my mind the other day.  I had no idea there are over 52,000 registered/approved accounts in the forums.

I believe we average high teens to low twenties on logged on users.  Out of those, by doing a quick fly-by, it seems less than a third actively post (I am included in that list).   25 users is only 0.05% based on the FB post below.   Where did everyone go?   I wonder what the numbers were one year ago.

Yes, it seems many sign up and drop out rather quickly. At least a few of us "old-guard" are still kicking along.

Manstein's revenge

This is my job...

Where do I send my resume??

And you are very good at it...........

A shame the FSM forum didn't exist in 1939..........

This is my job...

Sprue-ce Goose

 

...

Fewer members have jobs.

ouch!

Well somehow my co-worker broke the keyboard on the laptop at the office/lab so I can read stuff on the internet but with about five keys that don't work it's hard to post. So I have to sneak in and use my boss's computer to post during the daytime.

At night when the PC is on I'm normally playing games though I'll drop by and see if anything interesting has come up.

VanceCrozier

 

Echo139er:

 

Yeah...  Where is everyone?  I resurrected this thread because the question still applies.  Now more than ever actually.

Active users numbers are getting smaller and smaller. 

 

 

I'm still here, but I'm routinely seeing "active users" numbers in the teens, during the day at least. I know I slow down, modeling-wise, in the summer because it's hard to apply a good clear coat while at the ball field... but that number makes me a little nervous.

........seems to me that most daytime posts originate from a place of employment, as I have noticed a drop during nights and weekends.

Perhaps employers no longer permit internet access from work.

Or

Fewer members have jobs.

A Facebook post by FSM staff, blew my mind the other day.  I had no idea there are over 52,000 registered/approved accounts in the forums.

I believe we average high teens to low twenties on logged on users.  Out of those, by doing a quick fly-by, it seems less than a third actively post (I am included in that list).   25 users is only 0.05% based on the FB post below.   Where did everyone go?   I wonder what the numbers were one year ago.

Echo139er

Yeah...  Where is everyone?  I resurrected this thread because the question still applies.  Now more than ever actually.

Active users numbers are getting smaller and smaller. 

I'm still here, but I'm routinely seeing "active users" numbers in the teens, during the day at least. I know I slow down, modeling-wise, in the summer because it's hard to apply a good clear coat while at the ball field... but that number makes me a little nervous.

I thought it was just the nicer weather attracting everyone outdoors. I've certainly slacked off on both posting and model building; more slacking on the former, less on the latter.

Sprue-ce Goose

Manstein's revenge:

...can't you guys just get along?

 

a long what?

.................seems it was only possible under under current rules...................

A long row of cupcakes.

Manstein's revenge

...can't you guys just get along?

a long what?

.................seems it was only possible under under current rules...................

...can't you guys just get along?

KINGTHAD

I just got a hold of some of the old gaurd here just this week and have asked them to come back.

Most were just tired of the in fighting and the bs that goes along with it.

Thad

The Old Guard, eh?  I've been called old, but never old guard.

ModelNerd

 

KINGTHAD:

 

...

Most were just tired of the in fighting and the bs that goes along with it.

Thad

 

 

Nailed it.

Yep, same here.

Quelle surprise !

KINGTHAD

...

Most were just tired of the in fighting and the bs that goes along with it.

Thad

Nailed it.

I just got a hold of some of the old gaurd here just this week and have asked them to come back.

Most were just tired of the in fighting and the bs that goes along with it.

Thad

Yeah...  Where is everyone?  I resurrected this thread because the question still applies.  Now more than ever actually.

Active users numbers are getting smaller and smaller. 

Some of us are still around managing to reappear now and again to checks out posts. With me, a new job, training to be a firefighter again, SCUBA divng, and volunteering as an Emergency Response Diver has kept me busy enough that my hobby room collected more dust than anything else. Seems I have now found time to dust off the old girl and see where I left off. Right now I am still working on the Skyhawk I was doing for my co-worker and I am piddling around with a P-61 Widow. Winter used to be my "building time" but now with the Dive team I will be ice diving a well so I hope I can make time for my passion at my bench.

Brent

Thank you Manny. I'll just leave things as they were.

Tony

in a semi plausible defensive explanitive reasonalbe sorty way... I've been noticing that when I get my email replies to threads latley.. their coming out of order, AND.. not all the wording in the reply is in the email... is anyone esle getting this ? may it be contributing to conflict anarchy??

Manny and Tony--good men. Good to see that maturity and good sense prevailed. 

Bgrigg

Kumbaya! Peace rings out across the battlefield.

This isn't going to be like that WWI story about opposing forces sharing a Christmas meal and getting back to killing each other the next day, is it?

EDIT--Actually it's just been released on DVD! I just ordered it from Half.com for $12.00! WAHOOO!

Bgrigg

Kumbaya! Peace rings out across the battlefield.

This isn't going to be like that WWI story about opposing forces sharing a Christmas meal and getting back to killing each other the next day, is it?

OMG, Bill. I was thinking the exact same thing!!! LOL

Kumbaya! Peace rings out across the battlefield.

This isn't going to be like that WWI story about opposing forces sharing a Christmas meal and getting back to killing each other the next day, is it?

Wingman_kz

Manny, I'll take you at your word that it was an honest mistake.Or that it's just something the software did. I apologize for editing your quote. As soon as I post this I'll take the comments out of my signature. Also, should I go back and delete the quote that I edited or should I leave it? Your call. And I hope that in the future we'll be able to get along.

Now, this was between Manny and me. There was no reason for anyone else other than management to get involved. No need for name calling or anything else.

Tony

It's watching #$%^ like this that drives people to other forums. Sure, they might run into the same type of arguments elsewhere, but it won't be the same people arguing, or so you hope.

So, the answer to "Where did everyone go?" is "someplace else where adults play".

Grow up, both of you. Manny, you of all people shouldn't be lecturing about hiding behind avatars and nicknames. At least Tony puts his 'real' name to his posts.

And Tony, editing quotes to suit an agenda is pretty high school. I'm disappointed.

Manny, I'll take you at your word that it was an honest mistake.Or that it's just something the software did. I apologize for editing your quote. As soon as I post this I'll take the comments out of my signature. Also, should I go back and delete the quote that I edited or should I leave it? Your call. And I hope that in the future we'll be able to get along.

Now, this was between Manny and me. There was no reason for anyone else other than management to get involved. No need for name calling or anything else.

Tony

Medicman71

hkshooter:

I've been sitting back with a bag of chips and a cold one watching this ever since I caught wingman's "version" of Manny's post. I knew instantly it was going to get entertaining.
And I agree with doog and side with Manny. You took a cheap shot Tony. There's no way you could have expected to get by with it. Grow up and grow a pair or the abuse could possibly get brutal.

 

top cover says... also...

hkshooter

I've been sitting back with a bag of chips and a cold one watching this ever since I caught wingman's "version" of Manny's post. I knew instantly it was going to get entertaining.
And I agree with doog and side with Manny. You took a cheap shot Tony. There's no way you could have expected to get by with it. Grow up and grow a pair or the abuse could possibly get brutal.

I've been sitting back with a bag of chips and a cold one watching this ever since I caught wingman's "version" of Manny's post. I knew instantly it was going to get entertaining.
And I agree with doog and side with Manny. You took a cheap shot Tony. There's no way you could have expected to get by with it. Grow up and grow a pair or the abuse could possibly get brutal.

Manstein's revenge

 

 

Not true..deleting words out of a sentence to change the original meaning is much different than quoting lines out of a very long paragraph to make a relevant point...that's done all the time in here...what isn't done or accepted is what you did...you don't pass the BS test...nice try again with the smoke and mirrors...

 

Honestly--are you? Because at least knowing this might extend you some latitude in this shameful incidence.

If you're going to argue, fight like a man. I can't imagine for the life of me that you didn't think someone was going to catch you in that obvious mangling of Manny's own words?!

By the way, as much as you may not like it, Manny DID have a valid point about your complaint about real names being a tad ironic. Suck it up like a man.

Wingman_kz

Wingman_kz:

Wasn't the League of Extraordinary Modelers somehow *inspired* by the Nameless National Luminaries? The name at least? I vaguely remember when it came about but don't recall what happened here that caused it. I had pretty much moved on to automotive modeling forums by then and didn't spend too much time here.

FSM's forum didn't start till late '02 did it? You still see a few folks around with Nov or Dec '02 join dates. And I think there were quite a few people here by the time I joined. Hard to believe they could have a big enough falling out by '04 to take off and start a new forum. But then, it didn't take long at Scale Auto for there to be a large scale disagreement. lol

I've been on forums where if you used a nickname you were looked down upon. You were nobody and nothing. Another where you absolutely had to include your real name(and it was displayed at the bottom of every post) or you weren't allowed to join but it was ok to go by a nickname. And then there's the ones that include your IP address in every post. The way things are going around here now I really wish FSM would do that. Then, if you took the time to look around a bit, you may actually have some idea of who you're talking to...

Tony

 

Original.

Wingman_kz

Wasn't the League of Extraordinary Modelers somehow *inspired* by the Nameless National Luminaries? The name at least? I vaguely remember when it came about but don't recall what happened here that caused it. I had pretty much moved on to automotive modeling forums by then and didn't spend too much time here.

FSM's forum didn't start till late '02 did it? You still see a few folks around with Nov or Dec '02 join dates. And I think there were quite a few people here by the time I joined. Hard to believe they could have a big enough falling out by '04 to take off and start a new forum. But then, it didn't take long at Scale Auto for there to be a large scale disagreement. lol

I've been on forums where if you used a nickname you were looked down upon. You were nobody and nothing. Another where you absolutely had to include your real name(and it was displayed at the bottom of every post) or you weren't allowed to join but it was ok to go by a nickname. And then there's the ones that include your IP address in every post. The way things are going around here now I really wish FSM would do that. Then, if you took the time to look around a bit, you may actually have some idea of who you're talking to...

Tony

Original.

Manstein's revenge

Wingman_kz:

I've been on forums where if you used a nickname you were looked down upon. Another where you absolutely had to include your real name(and it was displayed at the bottom of every post) or you weren't allowed to join but it was ok to go by a nickname. The way things are going around here now I really wish FSM would do that. Then, if you took the time to look around a bit, you may actually have some idea of who you're talking to...

 

Why don't you start by setting the example, Mr. Skull and Crossbones Wingman?

Your quote doesn't match my post.

So we're just waiting on the JTAC to call us in hot!!

Medicman71

Ok here's my . I wasn't here for the previous forum setup. I came in here cause I build models. I've never really had a problem with the people in here. Yeah there's a few that have to come in and start stuff. And that kinda pisses me off considering that this is a modeling forum. I have no problem and quite enjoy the Odds and Ends section. It can get really funny at times and that's a good break from pulling my hair out over a model. I've learned a lot from people in here and I thank them for that.

And now someone has gone and pissed Manny off? I'm running off to my foxhole. Should I call for air support now? Maybe some He-129's? Or A-10's. Or maybe both!!!

Medicman.. got ya covered.. I'm not an A-10 or 129,, but I got 4 50 cal's. and 20MM in concentrated nose.. I'm circling in the clouds.. waiting....

Medicman71

And now someone has gone and pissed Manny off? I'm running off to my foxhole. Should I call for air support now? Maybe some He-129's? Or A-10's. Or maybe both!!!

Its OK, HvH has got the CAS sorted (cutbacks);

Ok here's my . I wasn't here for the previous forum setup. I came in here cause I build models. I've never really had a problem with the people in here. Yeah there's a few that have to come in and start stuff. And that kinda pisses me off considering that this is a modeling forum. I have no problem and quite enjoy the Odds and Ends section. It can get really funny at times and that's a good break from pulling my hair out over a model. I've learned a lot from people in here and I thank them for that.

And now someone has gone and pissed Manny off? I'm running off to my foxhole. Should I call for air support now? Maybe some He-129's? Or A-10's. Or maybe both!!!

Wingman_kz

Manstein's revenge:

Wingman_kz:

Manny, I've never done anything to you so why do you persist in trying to provoke me?  I have nothing to say to you and will not be drawn into an arguement with you so leave me alone.

 

Persist?  I remember replying to your posts in the past...believe me, I'm targeting you for an arguement; I'm an a$$hole...

I just thought that FSM should require us to all use our real names, pics and IP addys in here ---you don't think that is a tad hypocritical?

 

 

No, not at all.

Anything you say, Mr. Skull and Crossbones...

You know, to disagree with me is one thing---or even to have  a little spirited exchange in here---that's cool by me.  But, to go into my quote box and change my words to change the meaning of what I wrote to serve your purposes is unacceptable and shows me how spinelss you are...

You can actually read what I originally wrote in earlier posts in this thread and clearly see what you've done, which is not only spinless but unethical...so I'm not surprised that you you don't see that you are a hypocrite as well... 

Game on...

Manstein's revenge

Wingman_kz:

Manny, I've never done anything to you so why do you persist in trying to provoke me?  I have nothing to say to you and will not be drawn into an arguement with you so leave me alone.

 

Persist?  I remember replying to your posts in the past...believe me, I'm targeting you for an arguement; I'm an a$$hole...

I just thought that FSM should require us to all use our real names, pics and IP addys in here ---you don't think that is a tad hypocritical?

 

No, not at all.

So much for  the forum not allowing duplicate posts.

I'll third that!

Manstein's revenge

 I'm an equal opportunity a$$hole...

 

you know, if we keep seconding and thirding this, and so on, we are to be here for  very long time

Vote to move the question... er.. the reply.. er. the what was we talking about ?...

oh.. where did everyone go..?

I am here.. I've been a member for a while.. lota lurking.. then got sucked in to posting by some friends...

I lurk more than I post..

wing_nut

 

Manstein's revenge:

 

 I'm an equal opportunity a$$hole...

 

 

 

you know, if we keep seconding and thirding this, and so on, we are to be here for  very long time

I'll second that!

Manstein's revenge

 I'm an equal opportunity a$$hole...

 

you know, if we keep seconding and thirding this, and so on, we are to be here for  very long time

You've already got my fingerprint mein herr!

CallSignOWL

Manstein's revenge:

 

Wingman_kz:

 

Manny, I've never done anything to you so why do you persist in trying to provoke me?  I have nothing to say to you and will not be drawn into an arguement with you so leave me alone.

 

 

Persist?  I don't remember ever replying to any of your posts in the past...believe me, I'm not targeting you for an arguement; I'm an equal opportunity a$$hole...

I just thought it was interesting of you to suggest that FSM should require us to all use our real names, pics and IP addys in here when you do none of the above---you don't think that is a tad hypocritical?

 

 

 

LOL, that's just the way Manny is. He trolled me a few times but I knew what he was playing at. Once you do, he just becomes silly!  And Manny, he did include "Tony" at the end of his post, so he wasn't really being too hypocritical. 

silly boys.

OWL

I think he's just desperate to get the "Platinum Cross" that comes from FSM when passing the 10,000 post barrier. 

Manstein's revenge

 

Wingman_kz:

 

Manny, I've never done anything to you so why do you persist in trying to provoke me?  I have nothing to say to you and will not be drawn into an arguement with you so leave me alone.

 

 

Persist?  I don't remember ever replying to any of your posts in the past...believe me, I'm not targeting you for an arguement; I'm an equal opportunity a$$hole...

I just thought it was interesting of you to suggest that FSM should require us to all use our real names, pics and IP addys in here when you do none of the above---you don't think that is a tad hypocritical?

 

LOL, that's just the way Manny is. He trolled me a few times but I knew what he was playing at. Once you do, he just becomes silly!  And Manny, he did include "Tony" at the end of his post, so he wasn't really being too hypocritical. 

silly boys.

OWL

VanceCrozier

Manstein's revenge:

 

 

 

...I'm an equal opportunity a$$hole...

 

He really is, first thing they teach you in Feldmarshall school!

I'll second that.. I think if you ck Wiki... he's there.. 2/3rds of the way down...

Manstein's revenge

 

 

 

...I'm an equal opportunity a$$hole...

He really is, first thing they teach you in Feldmarshall school!

Wingman_kz

Manny, I've never done anything to you so why do you persist in trying to provoke me?  I have nothing to say to you and will not be drawn into an arguement with you so leave me alone.

Persist?  I don't remember ever replying to any of your posts in the past...believe me, I'm not targeting you for an arguement; I'm an equal opportunity a$$hole...

I just thought it was interesting of you to suggest that FSM should require us to all use our real names, pics and IP addys in here when you do none of the above---you don't think that is a tad hypocritical?

wing_nut

 

...We have loads of new names here. Some with developing skills and some with advanced skills.  We should make 'em feel welcome so they stick around...

You're right wing_nut, there must have been 7 or 8 "new to the forums" posts this week. And those are just the ones who announce themselves, there could be more who are just "lurking", checking us out & looking for WIPs or tips.

Manstein's revenge

The ones who matter are still here...

sniff, sniff...   I LOVE YOU MAN!

WOW the was a lot of reading.Like doog said, this is my home.  For all I know it may be because it is the 1st one I signed up for when I got back in the hobby 5 years ago and remembered the name "FineScale Modeler."

I was asked to join LEM, which I did, but have not been there for ages.  I frequent other forums, more often than not lurking.  But when i need to do some serious posting, I come home.  Nothing to do with cliques.  Nothing to do with the arguments that arise.  Heck, I don't even get involved in them.  Bet nobody here remembers me in one of the blow ups.  I am too busy helping someone with their sludge wash problem to be bothered. Most times I miss them entirely and end up wondering what happened, who was involved and why are they not here anymore.  It was usually manny that was not around but those exits were short lived and we are just used to them now  still llovya dude

I know I started one of these"where did they go" threads too not long ago. But as someone said, there are too many reasons NOT to post here or anywhere else for that matter.  Life happens.  We have loads of new names here. Some with developing skills and some with advanced skills.  We should make 'em feel welcome so they stick around.  I would like to think I have things rumbling around in between the dead brain cells in my noggin that can help someone.  and there is a ton I can learn from new guys like Jose Lopez.  And I am still learning for all you guys too.

So what I am really trying to say is...

Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya...

Someone's modeling Lord, Kum bay ya...

Manny, I've never done anything to you so why do you persist in trying to provoke me?  I have nothing to say to you and will not be drawn into an arguement with you so leave me alone.

Yes Hans, I know how it works, and it's a shame the admins here don't police them like the forum you mentioned. But then, they can't even keep banned members banned can they? So why would they bother with comparing IP's? Far as I'm concerned they could use some help. Maybe your kind of help...

Tony

Or, if you steal hundreds of thousands of dollars from banks, you might be hired later and make tons of money stopping others from doing that. 

Wait!  Wasn't there a movie about that?

Oh yeah, Catch Me If You Can.

Bgrigg

Hans von Hammer:

 

But would you want your bank to hire a convicted bank robber?

 

Dunno... I mean, it might work, in that, since he was convicted, it's obvious that he ain't very good at it...

 

But what if it means he "tries, tries again"?

Should be much easier to convict then... Probably wouldn't even go to trial...

Hans von Hammer

 

But would you want your bank to hire a convicted bank robber?

 

Dunno... I mean, it might work, in that, since he was convicted, it's obvious that he ain't very good at it...

But what if it means he "tries, tries again"?

But would you want your bank to hire a convicted bank robber?

Dunno... I mean, it might work, in that, since he was convicted, it's obvious that he ain't very good at it...

And then there's the ones that include your IP address in every post.

Although you can't see it, rest assured that the forum admins can...  I admin on military site and I got every IP addy from every member at the nearest mouse-click...   Someone with some savy can can ghost their IPs, sure, and hitchhike on others, ot use dynamic IPs, but those are few and far between.. We just issue a "shoot on sight" order for those Chuckleheads...  One guy persisted too much though, and we eventauly tracked one of his IPs to his work computer, which belonged to the state... Once it was confirmed that it was actually him and not some poor working stiff getting hijacked,  he ended up out of a job for trolling... Of course, that's an extreme example.. 

I've never joined to the club that wouldn't take me as I remember...

Yarrggh!!!

ohh.. a doubloon...!! ------------------- > @

I'm fine with Tony's skull & crossbones, that's how I first realized he was a pirate!!

Wingman_kz

I've been on forums where if you used a nickname you were looked down upon. Another where you absolutely had to include your real name(and it was displayed at the bottom of every post) or you weren't allowed to join but it was ok to go by a nickname. The way things are going around here now I really wish FSM would do that. Then, if you took the time to look around a bit, you may actually have some idea of who you're talking to...

Wasn't the League of Extraordinary Modelers somehow *inspired* by the Nameless National Luminaries? The name at least? I vaguely remember when it came about but don't recall what happened here that caused it. I had pretty much moved on to automotive modeling forums by then and didn't spend too much time here.

FSM's forum didn't start till late '02 did it? You still see a few folks around with Nov or Dec '02 join dates. And I think there were quite a few people here by the time I joined. Hard to believe they could have a big enough falling out by '04 to take off and start a new forum. But then, it didn't take long at Scale Auto for there to be a large scale disagreement. lol

I've been on forums where if you used a nickname you were looked down upon. You were nobody and nothing. Another where you absolutely had to include your real name(and it was displayed at the bottom of every post) or you weren't allowed to join but it was ok to go by a nickname. And then there's the ones that include your IP address in every post. The way things are going around here now I really wish FSM would do that. Then, if you took the time to look around a bit, you may actually have some idea of who you're talking to...

Tony

One think I find richly ironic about this whole thread (for me, anyway, since I detest all the ads that clutter up the screen) is that all these posts jack up the count that FSM can use to sell more ads ...

Bgrigg

Aw, Manny, you DO care!

the doog

 

Bgrigg:

 

 

 

But think about it this way, you're a 'fair' guitarist who could get work at any studio

lol! "Fair", huh, Bill? You'd better be careful with such effusive praise; honestly, you're going to give me a big head, Really--I'm not worthy! lol... I gotta sat though, I don't get the whole "band" analogy though; it seems to be "reaching" a bit. Maybe I'm just not insightful enough to grasp it...

 

 

Bgrigg:

We just want to know if you will fit in the group....

 

 

OOPS! I knew the truth would slip out somewhere! That's kinda exactly what U was afraid I'd hear. That;s what I'm talking about when I say that something is :"exclusionary".So....say if someone was a really sincere critic, dedicated to genuinely offering hard-hitting criticism that might offend some egos--would they "fit it"? Or would they be ostracized or even banned? Would that be seen as offensive?  I'm just curious as to the latitude given to members?

 

Honestly, I'm sure that it's all a bunch of great guys--I just don't like the ideology behind it --- as stated by you.

But I'm not going to lose sleep over it either.

Sorry about the praise. I'll try to turn it down a bit...

The band analogy I thought was pretty clear, so maybe my communications skillz are off. No, actually I KNOW they're off. The LEM has no ideology other than being a family friendly forum of modelers. My apologies for causing you to think that they have one. I thought that the band analogy worked pretty good, though almost all analogies "reach".

You mentioned earlier that people can be rehabilitated. Yes, people can learn from their mistakes and learn new ways to deal with people. But would you want your bank to hire a convicted bank robber? After all, he served his time, he's rehabilitated. Why not let him be in control of your money? I wouldn't invite foxes into the hen house, either. No matter how much the fox protests he's rehabilitated. Nature will out.

FSM has an open door, but many rules. Break them hard, or bend them often enough, and you can get banned for a time (koff Manny koff) or maybe life or even longer. I've seen the email that used to go out. One guy I know was banned until 2050! Some people get banned for all the right reasons, and I've seen enough of those on this site to want to never see them again. Either here or someplace else.

The LEM is a closed, but really unlocked, door. We want to make sure you're not a 'Bot wanting to spam us (been there, done that, got the T-Shirt), or a troll who only causes trouble (been there, done that, got the T-Shirt), and there is more than a few out there. As usmc1371 stated, that's what the application is for. It doesn't always work, but it must work pretty well, as there is very little drama at the LEM. There are however, a lot of laughs. There are only a few rules, and in all the time I've been there I know of only ONE circumstance where someone was punted, let back in and then punted permanently. There may have been more, but they've been under my radar. A few members (who are active here and will not be named) packed their tents and left voluntarily, one of which wanted the tent pegs filled in and his membership deleted, rather than merely left to languish. I'm pretty sure that if he re-applied, he would be welcomed, as he was a valued and respected member.

Harsh criticism solely to be harsh will probably get you punted. We've seen that before on this forum, where a member attacks another and the animosity spills over to multiple threads. The LEM would rather avoid that. Honest criticism is appreciated. There is a world of difference between:

"You #$%^ing moron, <fill in blank> are never painted that color, stupid! Any idiot knows that!"

and

"My references show that this particular color was never used for <fill in blank>. They were always painted <fill in blank>. If you are building this for a contest, you should change it, if you hope to win."

Is the LEM an atta boy club? No, it's not, but they can be offered without anyone thinking an atta boy is wrong, either. What's wrong with being supportive of someone trying their hardest, or doing their best?

Is the LEM a critical site? No, it's not, but criticism can be offered in such a way as to avoid conflict (and is), and what is wrong with that?

Do we want people to "fit in"? Yes, we do. Who wants to constantly be in a situation where there is animosity? This is my hobby, I want to enjoy it, not dread it. I'm sure Matt and Aaron want people to "fit in" here, too. Why invite trouble?

Is it perfect? No, it includes me as a member, for crying out loud! That alone makes them imperfect.

Bgrigg

 

 

But think about it this way, you're a 'fair' guitarist who could get work at any studio

Bgrigg

We just want to know if you will fit in the group....

Honestly, I'm sure that it's all a bunch of great guys--I just don't like the ideology behind it --- as stated by you.

But I'm not going to lose sleep over it either.

usmc1371

Wow.  I mentioned three letters, "L", "E", and "M", and three pages of replies were generated.

Wow.  I mentioned three letters, "L", "E", and "M", and three pages of replies were generated.

I was a little taken back when the LEM first started.  The name really threw me.  After I researched it and joined, I realized it was just a bunch of guys who have a lot in common with me. 

I think the application process is nothing more than a way to keep trolls out.  The thinking is probably along these line: If you're a troll, you probably won't go through the application process and the wait to participate in the forum discussions. 

Is it full proof, no.  But I think the intention is understandable.

-Jesse

Manstein's revenge

 

CallSignOWL:

 

Sorry to but in, but could one of you kindly explain the "Change" that occurred?

 

We all got hot flashes and the unexplained desire to buy a convertible...

I'm STILL having those hot flashes, and so is my new convertible...

Wait...unless you mean the 'Change' regarding Manny's avatar....but that's really a story for another time....

CallSignOWL

Sorry to but in, but could one of you kindly explain the "Change" that occurred? I guess I'm new enough that this layout is the only layout of the forum I've experienced.  And I don't really think it is all that bad as people keep saying...I get around just fine!  The only thing that ever bothered me was the pictures sometimes not resizing.

Thanks

 

OWL

Really there isn't much to explain other than the Forum changed its format. A different look here, a few extra button clicks there, throw in a few glitches and a lot of people were turned off for whatever reason. I never had a problem with it though the glitches were annoying but I believe are for the most part non-existent these days. It was a big topic for a while, and has died down since, but still remains in the shadows to reveal itself in threads not unlike this one.

Manstein's revenge

CallSignOWL:

Sorry to but in, but could one of you kindly explain the "Change" that occurred?

We all got hot flashes and the unexplained desire to buy a convertible...

CallSignOWL

Sorry to but in, but could one of you kindly explain the "Change" that occurred?

We all got hot flashes and the unexplained desire to buy a convertible...

Sorry to but in, but could one of you kindly explain the "Change" that occurred? I guess I'm new enough that this layout is the only layout of the forum I've experienced.  And I don't really think it is all that bad as people keep saying...I get around just fine!  The only thing that ever bothered me was the pictures sometimes not resizing.

Thanks

OWL

Man, I remember those days.

the doog

 You yourself just made an apt analogy of Manny's previous behavior, and if he had applied to the LEM based on his past behavior, he would have been undoubtedly DIS-approved of in his earliest days here when his PTS from the Eastern Front had him somewhat more ornery.( Manny!)

My FSM Forum past is harder to shake than my past during WW2 !!!

LOL! I think the list of people I haven't 'discussed' things rather deeply is much shorter than the list I have! And I'm certainly glad that we've all been adult enough to get over it (Doog and Manny, I'm looking at YOU!). I wouldn't change my FSM status for the world, though I very nearly did over a troll a few years back. I'm equally proud to be a FSMer, as I am a LEMur. I like the raucous nature of the FSM Odds & Ends Bar, but also like the calmer quiet of the Fireside Lounge (as the LEM calls their O&E forum).

Ken, you're right, the LEM has changed as well. The world keeps turning, after all. But all in all, the changes have been slight and don't have much to do with the forum per se, but the people who take part. There hasn't been the "Change it back or I'm out of here" BS we've experienced here.

The photo-shopped pics were a hoot, and were Dwight Ta-ala's trademark, as was the LOTM (IIRC). He's been very inactive on the forum for personal/work reasons. He's missed, both here and on the LEM.

Bgrigg

Trust me, there is plenty of diversity and occasionally animosity, we ARE human, after all, but all-in-all, it's a fun bunch of guys.

I know back a couple years ago, you and I 'discussed' a thing or two rather deeply, as we are both rather vocal in our opinions/viewpoints... but in the end we came out friends regardless.

I also know I've ruffled a feather or two, albeit unintentional but it happens. I've seen people huff and puff and storm out over stupid stuff, sometimes they quietly come back, others never do.

I can say that the place I first experienced is very different than it is now though, there are no more hilarious photoshopped pictures of members to laugh at, no more LEMur of the month, no more milestone/achievement announcements and I for one miss the goofy back and forth banter of the fenderbender guys...

but that's life, constant change.

I agree with Bill and also understand doogs points. It takes all kinds to make the world go round and since the beginning of time there have been those who prefer to distinguish themselves as a group from the whole. And there have been folks who don't like those in those groups. Whatever. As long as humans are human this will happen, just like as long as humans are human they will kill each other in war, rescue one another in disaster, talk behind each others backs, and open their doors to those in need. I'll not say I'm happy about one thing over the other, this isn't the place for tossing those grenades. One thing I WILL say is whatever it is people like, whatever groups they want to be in for whatever reasons, I'm fine with that. The phrase "birds of a feather stick together" didn't come out of nowhere.

the doog

 

Bgrigg:

 

The approval process only insures that trolls are blocked from attending the site, which isn't a bad thing. The admins figure if you cause nothing but trouble on FSM or Armorama or wherever, then you'll likely cause trouble on the LEM and we don't want or need to deal with that.

Hmmm. See, that bugs me. Because it judges and seals in concrete a person's behavior as being immutable and unchangeable. You yourself just made an apt analogy of Manny's previous behavior, and if he had applied to the LEM based on his past behavior, he would have been undoubtedly DIS-approved of in his earliest days here when his PTS from the Eastern Front had him somewhat more ornery.( Manny!) Trolls are dealt with pretty quickly here on FSM; I don't see how FSM's "door policies" are much different in terms of giving people the boot,. honestly.

 

 

Bgrigg:

The LEM is not really a "private club" just one that doesn't advertise. You have to know where the door is, and it's locked only until we (they actually, I don't have a say nor do I want one) see who's there and let them in. It's smaller, and quieter, and we can hear each other talking over the background noise.

Meh....yeah, that too, bothers me, lol. Seems like an insulated community. Kinda like a "gated community" designed to keep out the "unpleasant" people. I think that the more that you insulate yourself from disagreeable types, the less tolerable and able to deal with those situations in real life,

 

The modern requirement to learn to deal with the strange and unfamiliar social dynamics of sites like this which attract all types and creeds has taught me much about both myself and others. I wouldn't want to insulate and protect myself from those unexpected snafu's, as I believe that they help to expand a person's orbit and their ability to navigate their cyber-environment, no matter how unfamiliar.

Well, since it's a free world, you don't have to like it, or join. And I understand why you wouldn't. It's one reason I keep active on this site. I'm not going to stop being an online buddy of yours because of that.

But think about it this way, you're a 'fair' guitarist who could get work at any studio, but you've chosen to join an "exclusive" band. Why? Probably because you like the guys, enjoy the music and have some say in what the band does. Did you apply to the band, or did they invite you? The LEM is "my" band. I'm not tied to the band, as I can play with other bands if I want, but I can always "go home" when and if I choose.

US Immigration works the same way the LEM application works. We want to know who is coming through the door, or do you think DC should let everyone in, and figure out which are the smugglers and terrorists after the fact?

The LEM isn't a 'star chamber' where a group of shadowy figures decide on people's fates from the dark corner. We just want to know if you will fit in the group. Trust me, there is plenty of diversity and occasionally animosity, we ARE human, after all, but all-in-all, it's a fun bunch of guys.

Bgrigg

As I keep saying, I don't have any say. I'd let you in, though I'm crazy!

crazy is... as crazy does.. 'we're all a lil nutty in our own ways... some are jusr more subtle than others..

We all have our reasons for where we go.. and what we do.. the internet makes it soooo easy..

I can barely keep up with the threads I'm following on here.. much less another ...lol..

Bgrigg

The approval process only insures that trolls are blocked from attending the site, which isn't a bad thing. The admins figure if you cause nothing but trouble on FSM or Armorama or wherever, then you'll likely cause trouble on the LEM and we don't want or need to deal with that.

Bgrigg

The LEM is not really a "private club" just one that doesn't advertise. You have to know where the door is, and it's locked only until we (they actually, I don't have a say nor do I want one) see who's there and let them in. It's smaller, and quieter, and we can hear each other talking over the background noise.

The modern requirement to learn to deal with the strange and unfamiliar social dynamics of sites like this which attract all types and creeds has taught me much about both myself and others. I wouldn't want to insulate and protect myself from those unexpected snafu's, as I believe that they help to expand a person's orbit and their ability to navigate their cyber-environment, no matter how unfamiliar.

As I keep saying, I don't have any say. I'd let you in, though I'm crazy!

Bgrigg

Manstein's revenge:

 

So what is asked on the application, "Will you be good?"   I still don't understand the "application process"...that brings too much subjective thinking intot the approval process, IMO...

 

 

IIRC it's pretty much:

Why do you want to be a member?

Are you a member elsewhere? If so, what is your user name there?

Are you willing to live within our rules?

The rules are simple and straight forward. Look at it this way, you came on board here and got punted a number of times for whatever reasons. FSM has a criteria that they compare our activities to, and deal with us in their own manner. Lucky for all of us, they let you back in. You had to modify how you acted online to stay on here, which you obviously were willing to do, or you wouldn't be here today. The LEM has a similar criteria (almost exactly the same, actually), they just put it out front. To keep up with the bar analogy, some bars don't let in gang members wearing their colors. The LEM want to see if you normally wear colors. If so, they won't let you join.

It's about as private as a membership to Costco is, except the LEM doesn't have a yearly fee or take your picture.

Why do you want to be a member?  Cause I love to build models.

Are you a member elsewhere? If so, what is your user name there? No.

Are you willing to live within our rules?   Yes.

...am I in?

Manstein's revenge

 

So what is asked on the application, "Will you be good?"   I still don't understand the "application process"...that brings too much subjective thinking intot the approval process, IMO...

 

IIRC it's pretty much:

Why do you want to be a member?

Are you a member elsewhere? If so, what is your user name there?

Are you willing to live within our rules?

The rules are simple and straight forward. Look at it this way, you came on board here and got punted a number of times for whatever reasons. FSM has a criteria that they compare our activities to, and deal with us in their own manner. Lucky for all of us, they let you back in. You had to modify how you acted online to stay on here, which you obviously were willing to do, or you wouldn't be here today. The LEM has a similar criteria (almost exactly the same, actually), they just put it out front. To keep up with the bar analogy, some bars don't let in gang members wearing their colors. The LEM want to see if you normally wear colors. If so, they won't let you join.

It's about as private as a membership to Costco is, except the LEM doesn't have a yearly fee or take your picture.

the doog

 

 

Hmmm.... (thinking....)

 

Well, it would admittedly be narrow-minded of me to paint the whole group w\ith one big brush, and I'm sure that the members there don't encapsulate whatever cynical or angry motives might have underwritten the founding of the group, but something about the whole premise of it still bugs me. Namely the fact that it seems somewhat insulated and exclusionary, if not in practice, then in theory.

I've never cared for groups, cliques, clubs, where you had to be "approved" for membership, as if you had to meet a certain criteria. I think that that is a way of pre-judging a person, and a way to "keep out the riff raff"--which is itself an exclusionary, somewhat-elitist motivation. I mean, why not just go over to say, Armorama? Why not just say ":Hey, I'll see you guys on Armorama"? Why start up a brand new forum/group where you have to be "approved"? Is it just a way to ensure you won't get unwanted critique? Or to guarantee "attaboys"? Hmmmm....certainly not anything illegal or immoral or unethical in that, but ....... not my speed.

I'm sure that the reasons people post and attend that forum/group now are different than whatever motives provided its genesis. At least I hope so?

The approval process only insures that trolls are blocked from attending the site, which isn't a bad thing. The admins figure if you cause nothing but trouble on FSM or Armorama or wherever, then you'll likely cause trouble on the LEM and we don't want or need to deal with that.

There's been a few dust-ups on the site, but they are dealt with quickly, and we move on. It's just a club that's different from this "club". To borrow Hans' example, the FSM is a big, famous and wide open bar, where anyone can go. They have a big sign outside and all are welcome. Some get tossed out, some leave on their own and some stay on for years. The LEM is not really a "private club" just one that doesn't advertise. You have to know where the door is, and it's locked only until we (they actually, I don't have a say nor do I want one) see who's there and let them in. It's smaller, and quieter, and we can hear each other talking over the background noise. We've got carpet on the floor, not straw,  so it's more like a lounge than a bar, perhaps? There is a means to advertise your wares if you are a manufacturer, and members can post a notice online that they have kits for sale, though all transactions are via PM and not the responsibility of the moderators.

I usually go further than that and like Groucho Marx refuse to join any group that will have me as a member, but the LEM is not like that at all. It's just a group of people who decided that they would start a forum up of their own, much like Swanny did. Yes, it was born of a "dust-up", but golly gee, didn't America start out much the same way?

Bgrigg

Like Ken says, it's mostly by invite, but you fill out the same form that anyone who finds the site can fill out for application. YES, it's by application, but modeling skills are not a factor, after all, I'm a member! What is a factor is how you act online. Spew hatred and nastiness and expect to be declined. Be reasonable and willing to live within the rules and you're pretty much in. Again, I'm a member!

 

Pvt Mutt

Well you heard it right here folks. Camo Kid has confessed to leading me astray.

Innocent ignorance is bliss.

Tony Lee

HAHA!

Like you Tony, I am a member of far too many modeling forums.

Well you heard it right here folks. Camo Kid has confessed to leading me astray.

Innocent ignorance is bliss.

Tony Lee

Bgrigg

Like Ken says, it's mostly by invite, but you fill out the same form that anyone who finds the site can fill out for application. YES, it's by application, but modeling skills are not a factor, after all, I'm a member! What is a factor is how you act online. Spew hatred and nastiness and expect to be declined. Be reasonable and willing to live within the rules and you're pretty much in. Again, I'm a member!

If one does search out the site, you'll find that you can't even "lurk" there.

 

Very few people are asked to leave, but it happens, and for all the good reasons.

Well, it would admittedly be narrow-minded of me to paint the whole group w\ith one big brush, and I'm sure that the members there don't encapsulate whatever cynical or angry motives might have underwritten the founding of the group, but something about the whole premise of it still bugs me. Namely the fact that it seems somewhat insulated and exclusionary, if not in practice, then in theory.

I've never cared for groups, cliques, clubs, where you had to be "approved" for membership, as if you had to meet a certain criteria. I think that that is a way of pre-judging a person, and a way to "keep out the riff raff"--which is itself an exclusionary, somewhat-elitist motivation. I mean, why not just go over to say, Armorama? Why not just say ":Hey, I'll see you guys on Armorama"? Why start up a brand new forum/group where you have to be "approved"? Is it just a way to ensure you won't get unwanted critique? Or to guarantee "attaboys"? Hmmmm....certainly not anything illegal or immoral or unethical in that, but ....... not my speed.

I'm sure that the reasons people post and attend that forum/group now are different than whatever motives provided its genesis. At least I hope so?

I think it was the summer of 2008 Tony but you can check your profile there to be sure.

SMW was going through one of it's 'even deader than usual' phases and you asked me via e-mail what was up, I think I sent you the link to the LEM at that point.

Has it been two years already Ken?  I don't remember being invited,the door was open and I just walked right in and set up shop.

There was a lot of activity when I first started posting at the LEM but like all the sites that activity has slowed to nothing like what it was.  With the economy like it is that's no surprise,hobbies are curtailed just like eating out and going to the movies.

Peace

Tony Lee

Like Ken says, it's mostly by invite, but you fill out the same form that anyone who finds the site can fill out for application. YES, it's by application, but modeling skills are not a factor, after all, I'm a member! What is a factor is how you act online. Spew hatred and nastiness and expect to be declined. Be reasonable and willing to live within the rules and you're pretty much in. Again, I'm a member!

If one does search out the site, you'll find that you can't even "lurk" there. All you'll pretty much see is a link on how to become a member. Here's the blurb in it's entirety:

To become a member of The L.E.M., you must apply.

Your application will be reviewed by the admin team who will make a prompt decision.

Please supply us with enough information to make this decision process as simple as possible. If you are a member of another forum, please supply us with your user name and the forum you attend.

Please note that this site is not a pay to use site, this site is made possible through donations from some of the active members.

The rules of the L.E.M. are quite simple.
- No use of foul language.
- No political debates.
- No religious debates
- Before you type a message ...... think!!!
- And then think again!

Always remember you are a guest on this forum,
and guests can be asked to leave.

Very few people are asked to leave, but it happens, and for all the good reasons.

Karl,

while I can't speak for Bill, or the LEM itself for that matter,  I was invited by a member but I think you can apply as well. There was no 'criteria' I had to meet and model skills were definitely not considered.

Even that forum has changed over the years, the group of 'regulars' that posted actively years ago has changed a bit, there are many people that I hardly ever see now and some that seem to have disappeared altogether. I would assume that the reasons for the LEM's existence has changed as well over the years, while it may have been a dust up here that gave birth to it in 2004, I don't think any of that really matters to the LEMurs now.

It's mostly just regular guys building models and stuff, not that I am super active there or anything but I do pop in from time to time and check stuff out, or join in a group build. It's really just another everyday model forum IMO.

Bgrigg

I know that, Karl. And the League of Extraordinary Modelers is a rip off from the movie "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" and is a joke, rather than self-congratulatory. We call ourselves LEMurs, but only after the movie "Madagascar" came out, as opposed to the Roman word that means ghostlike (which the animal is named after).

The LAST thing we do is take ourselves seriously. If you knew us, and you do know some of us, you would also know that.

And like I said, I'm not "issuing a pronouncement" on the integrity of the members or trying to judge your motives. I'm sure I know and am fast friends with several of your members.

Maybe I misunderstand your group. For instance--how does one gain membership? Is it through an "approval process"? And based upon what criteria? Do you have to be "sponsored" or "vouched for" by another member? Or are your modeling skills your ticket in?

Egg Zachary   ^

Oh and hey, Unca' Tony the Mutt. You've been a LEM member for over two years now haven't you? lol

I know that, Karl. And the League of Extraordinary Modelers is a rip off from the movie "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" and is a joke, rather than self-congratulatory. We call ourselves LEMurs, but only after the movie "Madagascar" came out, as opposed to the Roman word that means ghostlike (which the animal is named after).

The LAST thing we do is take ourselves seriously. If you knew us, and you do know some of us, you would also know that.

Bgrigg

 

the doog:

 

This "LEM" thing reminds me of a dirt bike racing club called "The Fast Boys"--I always said I would never be caught dead in a group with such a self-congratulatory name.

 

 

You mean like Finescale?

Hurray for Manny!

People are going to come & go for various reasons. I probably looked at the FSM site/forums a dozen times over the summer. Between yardwork and my 3-4 ball games a week, I just shut down the modeling portion of my brain from June - late September.

Aw, Manny, you DO care!

Where did everyone go?  

The ones who matter are still here...

Honestly, I don'y understand all this whining over the "new forums". Really, isn't life too short for this drivel? I understand why some members left, but again, to me, it was more of the same whining over PC this and that. FSM has really relaxed their Odds & Ends rules. It used to be that you couldn't talk about anything that wasn't in some way model related. Does anyone notice that almost nothing in Odds & Ends is model related?

Quit crying and start building.

the doog

This "LEM" thing reminds me of a dirt bike racing club called "The Fast Boys"--I always said I would never be caught dead in a group with such a self-congratulatory name.

You mean like Finescale?

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but without change we would be carving basswood into biplanes, instead of slide molded styrene, and we would be communicating by smoke signals instead of the internet.

Change for change's sake is bad, but change for good is, well GOOD!

The forum software is nothing. A forum isn't the sum total of its programming, but the people who use it. The people is the reason I keep hanging around, even though it is obvious that many people either don't bother to post, or have left for "greener" pastures.

As a high-posting modeler here, I call FSM my home.

Been here since 2007, seen people come and go, and I've watched the dynamics of the forums shift and went through "The Change" same as everyone. By now, I'm used to it, and hardly remember the old format. The new one works fine for me; always something I wish I could change, but at the end of the day I post my WIPs, write my articles from them, and continue to get published.Still get great critique, can hold my own with the arses, and step up and admit when I've been one myself.

Personally, I don't lament who's here or who's not. Life goes on; people's lives and obligations change, just like mine did when I've been very busy working this past year and absent from the forums for a good while of it.You accept the change, make new friends, and don't spend time grousing about "how good it used to be". What a recipe for misery.

This "LEM" thing reminds me of a dirt bike racing club called "The Fast Boys"--I always said I would never be caught dead in a group with such a self-congratulatory name. I've been invited to other forums but have no interest. I'm not into elite "members only" type of cliques or clubs, or groups that seek to insulate themselves from the sometime-uncomfortable requirement of accepting and welcoming people with whom they can't easily relate.. I'm sure I'm completely wrong about the character of people involved in it, but the whole stated raison d;'etre of it strikes a sour chord with me. No offense intended.

mfsob

I second the motion that the "new and improved" site has a lot to do with the decreased traffic. I know Bill is going to say "change is good," but when you turn something that worked great into something that ... doesnj't ... then no, change just so you can cram as many ads as possible into the space allowed isn't good.

True enough, SF, but we don't get to vote here with our money, only our feet. People, for whatever reason, decide that the bar they've been going to isn't the right place for them, should we force them to stay and drink?

No, it's better to break up into smaller groups, then lose people from the hobby entirely. I'm both an FSMer and a LEMur, and am proud to be part of both groups.

I like the adds. The 1/32 scale Mitchell bomber advertised by Sprue Brothers is very tempting.

The format is what it is, it will evolve live the techniques involved with building models. Slick or slow I enjoy it here and could not find the time to join any other modeling forum.

LEM? I like the comparison 'To each his own watering hole (bar)'  Yet if every small group breaks away and starts another small forum it will weaken all the established existing ones. Another way to look at is everyone has a favorite sand box, its unfortunate some bad cats drop by to leave stinky bits now & then.

hkshooter

(...)

I'm saddened that so many of some very good folks left the forum a couple of years ago. It's not the same place. Myself, it took many months before I decided to try to accept and use the new format. I still hate it and I don't spend nearly the time here I used to.

(...)

Same feelling over here!

1/35, but then that will start a whole new discussion - ok, so if this is no longer the place to post / chat / find good advise, then what sites are people going to?  Is FSM paying attention or does ad space speak louder?

No, it's more like a bunch of friends, who rather than hang around harping and carping about how "bad" FSM is/was/will be went off and did their own thing. I can think of at least three other forums that started much the same way. They just found or founded a different bar. Nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is hanging around and poisoning the well, over and over again. I've met some good people on this forum, and then went on to meet some of them in real life. Out of that I have managed to pickup a few friends. Some here, some there.

I've never figured out just what went "wrong" on this site, when I joined there was a lot more activity. People (me!) would post twenty or thirty times a day. Now I'm posting a couple of times every other day. We've got a group of people who think "Atta-boys" are the only thing to do, and others who think smack downs equates to constructive criticism. Mostly I just shut up about what other people build, and don't bother posting any work here, as I don't want either an "Atta-boy" or a "WTF did you build it like that for? I build for me, and hang out here for fun. Its not nearly as much fun as it once was, but then neither is our world.

Wow.. A clique of guys who hated the cliques...

Odds & Ends, for me at least, is the forum's Bar (Ten-Forward for you guys in Sci-Fi hooch)... That's where the folks meet to tlak about whatever, where we get to "know" each other, as much as can be anyway...

Rules are simple.. Don't pizz-off the bartender, don't pizz on the floor, and don't get the cops called...

It seems an inevitable path that all net forums go through. From time to time there are big "dust ups" and the forum community gets a douche. I've seen it happen quite a lot in the many forums I visit. Most are usually minor but some, like FSM, are big fiascos that offend lots of thin skinned people and they leave. I missed the most recent here (was off season for me and I was absent) but did cruise the new forum for a bit. Don't know if it's still around or not, don't care.
I wasn't around at all for the first one so I don't have any idea at all what happened there.
It seems that in places like this people develop relationships  in the community much like they would in face to face life. The thing is lots of these relationships would never have happened face to face because some of us (me) are socially backward. The forum allows a venue for folks of like interests to gather and share ideas and experience. But because of it's very nature I believe there is something missing. Something that don't allow lifes little trenches and ruts to be easily avoided and things can grow into a big $hit storm in a hurry. Maybe its the quick temper that gets posted before reason can intervene because the computer allows instant gratification. Maybe it's false courage to open ones yap while hiding behind a screen. I'm no shrink so don't know for sure. One thing I am certain of though. Things can go way wild in a forum very quickly while in a similar situation face to face, things would happen much differently.
I think if folks would just keep right in the front of their mind that "it's the net. Don't let it offend you" and keep reality and the internet seperate they would be much happier and not be so quick to up and leave everytime the *** hit the ventilatour.

I'm saddened that so many of some very good folks left the forum a couple of years ago. It's not the same place. Myself, it took many months before I decided to try to accept and use the new format. I still hate it and I don't spend nearly the time here I used to. But I do come back and inspite of some spilt milk I've shared with a few members and some threads I've gotten locked or posts removed. The place still feels like my modeling home, just not as warm and fuzzy as it used to be. Bilbo Baggins' quote in my sig line pretty much sums up how I feel.

usmc1371

LEM - League of Extraordinary Modelers.

Some years back (2003-2004?), a bunch of guys, who were very active on the forum, got all bent out of shape because of the direction the FSM forum was headed.  Some of them decided to form their own modeling forum called the League of Extraordinary Modelers or LEM.  Those members called themselves LEMurs.  I was a member for about a year.  I'm not even sure if they exist anymore.  From my understanding, a lot of members left.  It might just be me, but the forum doesn't seem to be the same after that.  They were a lot of really good, seasoned modelers.  I kind of viewed them as the knowledgable grandfather you would go to ask questions because he knew everything.  Anyway, if I recall correctly, it was a big fiasco and a lot of people got bent out of shape.  Oh well, it's in the past now...

Oh, we still exist, and are thriving, in fact. Since I've been a member (and I remember you when you were active there), they've changed the forum twice, with none of the gnashing and wailing that happens here. A few people dropped out, for whatever reason, but more show up every time FSM fumbles.  The LEM is growing, though slowly, which isn't really a bad thing.

Yeah, you're right.  I guess I was just waxing nostalic when I was replying to initial post. 

It seems to be a real shame to  me.  I think, not to many years ago, there would be like over hundred people at time on the forum.  I just recently got back into it and I only see like 20 or 30 people on here at a time.

I hope FSM is able to draw more forum users back.  I don't know how.  If I did, I would probably be working for them.

Thanks,that's the first i've heard about it.  Nothing new really,happens within a lot of different sites.

Tony Lee

usmc1371

LEM - League of Extraordinary Modelers.

Oh well, it's in the past now...

LEM - League of Extraordinary Modelers.

Some years back (2003-2004?), a bunch of guys, who were very active on the forum, got all bent out of shape because of the direction the FSM forum was headed.  Some of them decided to form their own modeling forum called the League of Extraordinary Modelers or LEM.  Those members called themselves LEMurs.  I was a member for about a year.  I'm not even sure if they exist anymore.  From my understanding, a lot of members left.  It might just be me, but the forum doesn't seem to be the same after that.  They were a lot of really good, seasoned modelers.  I kind of viewed them as the knowledgable grandfather you would go to ask questions because he knew everything.  Anyway, if I recall correctly, it was a big fiasco and a lot of people got bent out of shape.  Oh well, it's in the past now...

Yeah, you did. It actually happened before I got here, so I missed the actual dust up. As I recall, it was over what passed for an "odds and end" forum, where people got involved in games and arguments. Some people complained, sides were chosen and a bunch of people walked away and formed the LEM, a invitation only forum to which I also belong. It ended up that for a time there was no "odds and ends", but after a time it was brought back.

I LIKE the O&E forum. It lets us (those who can) let down our hair and act a bit silly, or to talk about something that isn't really model oriented. While I agree that arguments over religion or politics should be avoided, adult conversations about those subjects can and have happened without crossing the line into fisticuffs. Unfortunately, it seems as if our society is becoming even more polarized then ever, which is a real shame, for my experience with people is that we aren't really that far apart.

I've long felt that if this forum would eliminate the O&E forum, that many more people would leave. Yes, this is a modeling website, but we aren't plastic and come from a mold, only the kits we build do. We are flesh and blood humans, and we need to talk, laugh and cry sometimes. Hard to do in a strict environment.

Pvt Mutt

Tell me about this LEM purge thing please,I missed it I guess.

Tony Lee

Tell me about this LEM purge thing please,I missed it I guess.

Tony Lee

usmc1371

I was one of the original members to the forum (under a different screen name).  Here's what I've noticed over the years:

1. The new forum set up is poor.
2. Factions develop and drive people away. For instance, if you don't do things the way current leading faction does things, you might just be ignored.
3. An overwhelming persuit of accuracy.  Basically, if you didn't use the "right" color or if you missed a detail, you can be called out on it.  Some people just want to make models, not replicate down to the tinest detail.
4. The Odds and Ends forum results in so many heated debates and arguments.  To me, it's a useless forum.  We're supposed to be talking about modeling here, no the latest rock band.
5. Lack of beginner support.  I've seen a lot of posts by begineers with replys such as "do a search on so-and-so" instead of replying to initial post.  Not very friendly to a new guy.
6. Certain people who take the lead (not by their own doing) and if you don't follow their lead, you're ostracized by the followers.

Basically, it seems like our forum as become like high school.  We have a small "in" crowd and a large "out" crowd.  Sure, some of the "out" people will stay, but a lot will go somewhere else where they can be part of an "in" crowd.  I guess it's just part of human nature.

Some of you older forum members might remember the "LEM" purge some years back.

Just my thoughts,

Jesse

I was one of the original members to the forum (under a different screen name).  Here's what I've noticed over the years:

1. The new forum set up is poor.
2. Factions develop and drive people away. For instance, if you don't do things the way current leading faction does things, you might just be ignored.
3. An overwhelming persuit of accuracy.  Basically, if you didn't use the "right" color or if you missed a detail, you can be called out on it.  Some people just want to make models, not replicate down to the tinest detail.
4. The Odds and Ends forum results in so many heated debates and arguments.  To me, it's a useless forum.  We're supposed to be talking about modeling here, no the latest rock band.
5. Lack of beginner support.  I've seen a lot of posts by begineers with replys such as "do a search on so-and-so" instead of replying to initial post.  Not very friendly to a new guy.
6. Certain people who take the lead (not by their own doing) and if you don't follow their lead, you're ostracized by the followers.

Basically, it seems like our forum as become like high school.  We have a small "in" crowd and a large "out" crowd.  Sure, some of the "out" people will stay, but a lot will go somewhere else where they can be part of an "in" crowd.  I guess it's just part of human nature.

Some of you older forum members might remember the "LEM" purge some years back.

Just my thoughts,

Jesse

iraqiwildman

It's all Manny's fault.

Horse? What scale is the horse?

This horse is still dead, guys.

It's all Manny's fault.

As can be seen from my profile I have not been here long so I can't comment on what was in the past, but I enjoy the forum both for the laughs and from the tips and advice I get. Those of us who are new see it here without he "benefit" of looking at what was with rose color glasses. Only thing I can do is to be active and try to do my part to make the forum of today be a better place, even if I don’t contribute much other than say welcome to other new members.

What really bothers me about this new site is not that there is decreased traffic...

but its that the only forum that is active is odds and ends the majority of wips and builds I see get one or two, if that, responces and tahts it, but a off topic thing gets 12 pages

mfsob

I second the motion that the "new and improved" site has a lot to do with the decreased traffic. I know Bill is going to say "change is good," but when you turn something that worked great into something that ... doesnj't ... then no, change just so you can cram as many ads as possible into the space allowed isn't good.

Well, change is good. Just ask any begger or baby!

Don't like ads, and who does? Just use Firefox with Adblock Plus and block all the ads. I'm ad-free on FSM! But that still doesn't account for the slowness of the site at times. I still think that FSM has an issue with their server, but some of the slowdown will be due to banner ads, sig line graphics and the amount of people accessing the website.

I'm in that boat also.  I lurked for a while, and then got up the nerve to say something, and then show something, and finally share my opinion and try to be funny.  I still don't put up a lot of posts, but I'm involved... And to me it seems like there are a lot of new guys introducing themselves lately which has stirred up some chatter.  I think that we must remember that a guy with 8 posts may have incredible modeling skills and may just now be searching for a group that will support his efforts.  In my community I know of no one who shares my passion for these miniatures.  Here, there are hundreds of folks who share and foster my love for, not only the hobby, but the history around it.   What I've always liked about this Forum, is the fact that everyone is supportive of members asking for help, whether it be modeling advice or moral support,  people here treat it as a fraternity.  That's nice.  Rick.

VanceCrozier

I think I only lurked prior to the change, so I'm not sure what the differences were. I can't miss what I didn't know about, I suppose.

me to,, lurked alot before the change,,, then some new friends goaded me into popping my lurking cherry..

I think I only lurked prior to the change, so I'm not sure what the differences were. I can't miss what I didn't know about, I suppose.

I second the motion that the "new and improved" site has a lot to do with the decreased traffic. I know Bill is going to say "change is good," but when you turn something that worked great into something that ... doesnj't ... then no, change just so you can cram as many ads as possible into the space allowed isn't good.

smeagol the vile

the change from a great site to one thats not user friendly and very glitchy chased alot of people away.

LOL! You mustn't have been around for the last forum change, which changed from a decent site to a similar decent one. This last change has not gone well, and it isn't getting any better. Hopefully, the next one will be better.

fermis

86 posts in 4+ years???  Where have YOU been???!!!

the change from a great site to one thats not user friendly and very glitchy chased alot of people away.

86 posts in 4+ years???  Where have YOU been???!!!

It's been up & down for a while now, pretty much since "The Change"!