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So, You Bought That High-dollar Kit...

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  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Friday, June 10, 2011 6:53 AM

SuppressionFire

*Somehow I pictured 'Shep more articulate in his words... Hans is more rasp & gritty like a Marine!

WhisperHmm

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, June 11, 2011 7:07 PM

SuppressionFire

The Liberator Hans pictured is from Shepard Panes book 'How to Build Dioramas' first edition.

Unless Hans is Shepard online credit should be mentioned for his work.

You're quite correct in that the diorama of the Lib, Lady Be Good, is indeed Shep Paine's work and where it's from.. As for giving Shep credit, it was an oversighte on my part, and has been corrected...  I didn't, at the time,  think it needed it though...

Shep's work with the 1/48 Monogram kits of the 70's is legendary, and I figured that most everyone would instantly recognize it and know who it was... I forget sometimes that there're quite a number of modelers out there, especially the "Under 40" crowd,  who aren't Monogram fans (as evidenced by their referal to those kits' manufacturer by, shall we say, less-than-flattering names), and therefore probably wouldn't or couldn't know exactly how instrumental Shep was in forming many "recreational modelers" into full-blown diorama freaks like me...

How to Build Dioramas and it's sister publication, Modeling Tanks and Military Vehicles, are the two most important modeling books I own, and are the "Old and New Testament" of modeling, IMNSHO... I've even given away copies of "HTBD" to younger modelers, just to expose them to the work done by Shep and to get then interested in Monogram and Revell kits of old

So... Sorry about that, Your Dio-ness... Wink It's just pure hero-worship on my part, Shep ... If you're reading this (and many of my other posts about your work), consider me one of your primary disciples, and the reason I became a "serious" modeler along about age 14 (that was in 1974, for you that wanna know) with the "Tips on Building Dioramas" sheets included in some select Monogram kits of the 70s...

 

 

If Hans is Shepard we have a legend modeling among us! Bow Down

I'll never be able to match what Shep Paine has done for both diorama-work and Monogram kits.. I can only hope to emulate it well enough for a few people to appreciate my work, and to just share a few good "war stories" with them...

*Somehow I pictured 'Shep more articulate in his words... Hans is more rasp & gritty like a Marine!

"Like a Marine"??? Why, I oughtta....

I couldn't be a Marine... My parents were married (to each other), my GT Score was above 15 and I've never tried to bayonette a tank...

  • Member since
    October 2009
  • From: Houston, Texas
Posted by Medicman71 on Saturday, June 11, 2011 7:28 PM

My answer is yes.....if I could do something that cool.

Hey ya know, if I just painted my Tomcat as is, it would look battle damaged..LOL!!!

Building- (All 1/48) F-14A Tomcat, F-16C Blk 30, He 129

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, June 11, 2011 7:42 PM

A lot of different appraoches to the question...

Mine is this.. First of all, I don't buy "High Dollar" kits, lol... To me, a high-dollar kit is anything over 30-35 bucks, so very few ever see me and the kit together outside the LHS.. I'm in the 12.00-25.00 range, with the 25.00 part of it being the final price after the "40% off" Hobby Lobby Coupon is applied..

Anything that's needed as far as interior detail parts go, I either make myself with "Creative Gizmology" and a well-stocked parts-box, or avoid having to do it at all if it's not essential to the story the diorama's telling... By that I mean, there's np point in pain-stakingly building and super-detailing a 1/48th scale R-2800 radial, complete with pushrods and ignition harnesses if the model's depicting a ditched F6F that's nose-down in the water, and little or nothing in the front row is showing... 

Using the same scenario, a ditched Hellcat (Let's make it a Monogram F6F), would need to show the cockpit, since the canopy's either slid back or jettisoned (all Navy aircraft took off and landed with the canopies open in those days, provided they were equipped w/sliding canopies and didn't have clam-shell or side-hinged ones in the first place, like the radioman's canopy on the TBF Avenger). 

The rudder would likely be postioned to one side or the other (typically to the left if the pilot goes out the left side, since the left rudder pedal would get stepped on during egress most of the time).  Also, the stick would likely be full-forward, since the pilot's gonna get it outta the way ASAP, causing the elevators to be full-down.. There may or may not be aileron deflection, that's a judgement call on the builder's part..

Flaps could be up or down, depending on the aircraft and what's called for on the ditching checklist, and gear up, since ditching with the gear down wouldn't be advised if he insisted on remaining upright after the ditch. 

That takes care of the control surfaces and the cockpit/engine/gear-bay... Simply cutting and repositioning the surfaces would be a relatively easy job (depending on the flap-types), and any kit with recessed joints there would work fine...

Our Monogram Hellcat has a one-piece canopy.. That needs to be cut open, or vacuformed from thinner material.. Only the windscreen is needed, BTW... The engine isn't viewable, so we don't need the 25.00 resin aftermarket replacement or it's companion P/E valve & pushrod and wiring harness assy either , those white metal landing gear struts are useless, so let's pocket that 20.00 too...  

The Hellcat's cockpit is relatively simple in design, not much going on in there either...  We've got some panels to build from sheet and strip, along with a seat and stick/pedals/panel... The basic shapes can be done with Plastruct rectangular tubing, and the inside structure is duplicated, or suggested, rather, with Evergreen Styrene stip...

So far, I've got about .50 cents in materials into this "build" right now, so let's take a break there... I'll be back...

 

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Allentown, PA
Posted by BaBill212 on Saturday, June 11, 2011 8:33 PM

I think if I had that type of scene in mind when I purchased the kit,,, yes, absolutely. My problem is that typcially what I originally had in mind could change 10 times by the time I actually put glue to styrene.

But, in short, yes,,,  I could

Enjoy the ride!

 

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Truro Nova Scotia, Canada
Posted by SuppressionFire on Sunday, June 12, 2011 6:40 AM

Hans von Hammer

 

 SuppressionFire:

 

If Hans is Shepard we have a legend modeling among us! Bow Down

 

I'll never be able to match what Shep Paine has done for both diorama-work and Monogram kits.. I can only hope to emulate it well enough for a few people to appreciate my work, and to just share a few good "war stories" with them...

 

*Somehow I pictured 'Shep more articulate in his words... Hans is more rasp & gritty like a Marine!

 

"Like a Marine"??? Why, I oughtta....http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Humor/Smilies/th_taser.gif

I couldn't be a Marine... My parents were married (to each other), my GT Score was above 15 and I've never tried to bayonette a tank...

Hans von Hammer,

Well worded and explained answer, I appreciate the though and time taken in your reply.

Shepard Panes two books 'How to Build Dioramas' & 'How to Build & Weather Armor Vehicles' are the best two books on military modeling ever produced, timeless as the approach to everything is old school, no influences other than good old scratch building & innovation to achieve better than OOB results.

They both deserve more than a flip through at the LHS, people that do not look further into the text really miss the point. Too often I see 'Dioramas' consisting of a vehicle and a few figures, hardly a story that the viewer can understand even with no knowledge of the subject. Often my though is 'Only if they read Shep's book...'

Advanced modelers may think their builds are better, possibly they are after months & even years of time dedicated to a vehicle or diorama. What they miss is 'Shep had mere days to complete dioramas for major advertising campaigns.

The speed & quality of his work stands as a monument to what can be accomplished in a week.

Nothing has elevated the art of military scale modeling in a short period of time as Shepard Panes work & books.

As the industry reinvents itself, reissues new kits, dozens of variants of the same tank, PE brass by the ton, starts a trend in 1/48 scale (the original military scale along with 1/32) AM decal sheet by the volume and everything else to attract new customers while creating interest in the old guard...

It all returns full circle back to the basics of a desire to improve what is in the box. Knowledge is power, the books Shepard wrote have information for every level or skill of modeler. Before forking out cash for the newest kit of latest AM item return to where it all started, read the books & reinvent your outlook at the hobby.

...Only then will some realize a vehicle with a few figures is NOT a diorama!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

 

 

Dre
  • Member since
    June 2007
  • From: here, not over there
Posted by Dre on Sunday, June 12, 2011 1:21 PM

Hans, I ain't hating on ya, but sometimes I think that your steadfast dedication to the Old School, inexpensive kits may lead you to missing out on what's out there now.   I too used to see Shep's sheets in the Monogram kits and I would wonder how the hell he could get that result from what i was seeing in the box, but at that young age I also knew that If I could achieve those same results, it would be after years of working at it. 

Dude had the talent to make a rock look like a diamond.

 

BTW, I picked up a few creative gizmology tips off of your posts, take a look-see in the Made in USSR GB for the results.

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, June 13, 2011 8:26 AM

Ain't picking up any hate at all, Dre... I've built a number of the newer kits, Dragon, Trumpeter, Academy, et al, so I'm not completely ignorant of what's out there by any means...  I just don't believe in paying what I feel are exhorbant prices just because a kit includes a metal gun barrel and fret of P/E greeblies, or has a few raised panel lines instead of recessed ones...   I got the high-end kits on Ebay for considerably less than the LHS prices, so I was in good shape...

See, it's not necessarily the manufacturer, it's the price...  I don't see at all where Trumpeter got off with an MSRP of over 100.00 on their C-47 kit, when the reissue of the Monogram kit can be had for less than half that price.. All the so-called "extra detail" was invisible to the viewer,  and any of it that would be needed by the intermediate modeler, well... That's quite "scratch-buildable", IMHO... 

I consider myself to be somewhere in Limbo between "Advanced" and "Expert" skill-level when it come to scratch-building, so I figure if I can do it, anyone who's read and followed Shep's tips can do it... I've taken his stuf and gone a bit farther, if you can understand that... Where he bought after-market sheet styrene, I bought "Garage-Sale" type signs, and stuff like that.. He bought Evergreen Rod, I stretched sprue into varying thicknesses... He bought piano wire, I used wire I ripped from junkyards  and dumpsters.. Basically,  His scratch-building material were more expensive than mine, is what I'm trying to say, lol..

A good scratch-builder never overlooks any source for material...  For me, the Hobby Shop is the LAST place I look for materials, lol... It's a learned thing, but it's doable.. Being able to "see" a part you need that's part of another part, ya know? 

Building a crashed airplane or burned-out tank isn't a demolition project, as some people would believe... It's actually a difficult and time-consuming construction project, although some parts of it involve tools that one would associate with modelers... Like one of Shep's tips regarding breaking armor plate (which does NOT bend, BTW), in which you score the underside of teh armor, then give it a solid whack with a hammer... Or using fire... I need soot sometimes so I go the source, soot.. Lighting a piece of sprue on fire and using the soot from it on the model...  That takes some pratice though... And an occasional tube of burn-cream...

 

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Hancock, Me USA
Posted by p38jl on Monday, June 13, 2011 11:29 AM

my gizmology seems to come in spurts.. or flashs... can't explain it.. when I'm planning a build and need some detials,, I dont try to dwell on it till the time comes. then sometimes the gizmo come to fruition...

like,,say.. a 1/48 cookie duster, and helmet visor cover...Whistling

[Photobucket]

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Monday, June 13, 2011 11:40 AM

p38jl

my gizmology seems to come in spurts.. or flashs... can't explain it.. when I'm planning a build and need some detials,, I dont try to dwell on it till the time comes. then sometimes the gizmo come to fruition...

like,,say.. a 1/48 cookie duster, and helmet visor cover...Whistling

...or sprue knapping at camp.....Whistling

Dre
  • Member since
    June 2007
  • From: here, not over there
Posted by Dre on Monday, June 13, 2011 12:52 PM

Sprue knapping?   Ya making Clovis points, or is it a for-profit scheme featuring abduction?

Dre
  • Member since
    June 2007
  • From: here, not over there
Posted by Dre on Monday, June 13, 2011 8:34 PM

"Research"...  I like that.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Monday, June 13, 2011 10:21 PM

Dre

Sprue knapping?   Ya making Clovis points, or is it a for-profit scheme featuring abduction?

Knapping is a term normally used to describe a technique used in shaping stone.

I typed the word knapping.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: San Antonio
Posted by paintsniffer on Monday, June 13, 2011 10:48 PM

Anything I would do to the cheapest kit in my stash I would gladly do to the most expensive.. Even if it cost $229 or more.

Once they are in the stash they are all in line for equal treatment. Namely, the best I can muster.

Excuse me.. Is that an Uzi?

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 4:24 AM

It'd never get into my stash, lol.. Well, I take that back... I've got some high-end kits in it that were gifts...  I've got a Trumpeter M1A1A and LCM landing craft, Dragon Marder II, Hasegawa P-51D, and a smattering of others...

But, for instance, say you have both the Trumpeter and Monogram 1/48 C-47s and dioramas in mind for both.. One diorama will have be a badly shot-up, belly-landed C-47 that has broken in half aft of the wings, with crew and passengers moving about, some unhurt, some hurt,  the other a D-Day -1 C-47 with paratroopers milling about and ground personel loading drop containers(sorta like Shep Paine's C-47 dio, for instance)...  The Trump MSRP'd at 129.00, the Monogram at 35.00...  You MUST build both dioramas and one's a build for your war room or the local hobbyshop window, the other for a model contest...

Which kit would you use for crashed Skytrain diorama (which is also the diorama you decided to enter in the contest)?

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Hancock, Me USA
Posted by p38jl on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 8:19 AM

The Trump for crash as I believe it has more interior detail... less to scratch build..

The on the ramp scene, you would not be able to see the interior to much.. use the Monogram

 

[Photobucket]

Dre
  • Member since
    June 2007
  • From: here, not over there
Posted by Dre on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 10:54 AM

deleted reply

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 12:52 PM

Actually, I use the Monogram for the crash, since the interior detail's not much different than the Trumpy, but then, I'd never buy the Trump in first place...

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: San Antonio
Posted by paintsniffer on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 1:12 PM

Hans von Hammer

Actually, I use the Monogram for the crash, since the interior detail's not much different than the Trumpy, but then, I'd never buy the Trump in first place...

 

I'd never build the trump either.. And I have my fair share of expensive kits. There is nothing wrong with the Monogram, and honestly, the Trumpeter just doesn't look right to me.

Price is honestly the LAST thing I consider before buying a kit.

When I want a kit I have established I want a model of something in a particular scale. In most cases this narrows it down to a few kits. Between those I look for the ones that are closest to looking right. Then I start to consider things like ease of build.. Finally, price comes into it.

Decals are never a factor, I build a lot of old kits, so I just assume the ones in the box are shot before I even get it home.

Excuse me.. Is that an Uzi?

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 1:19 PM

Price is honestly the LAST thing I consider before buying a kit.

It's the FIRST thing I look at, after I look at the subject...

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Biding my time, watching your lines.
Posted by PaintsWithBrush on Monday, June 20, 2011 10:06 PM

Sure. And photo-etch, resin components, and decal set as well if they were needed for what I was looking to achieve.

What's a few dollars for a hobby?

A 100% rider on a 70% bike will always defeat a 70% rider on a 100% bike. (Kenny Roberts)

  • Member since
    March 2010
Posted by shoot&scoot on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:30 PM

What PWB said.  Price (or time spent) just doesn't even enter into the equation.

                                                                                                         Pat.

                                                

  • Member since
    September 2010
Posted by potchip on Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:08 AM

Just bought a $900 resin kit, and.....all boxes opened and parts trimmed and test fitted and including some saw action already..I guess it's no longer MINT and doesn't matter what I do, shelf value will go down from here...

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:14 AM

potchip

Just bought a $900 resin kit, and.....all boxes opened and parts trimmed and test fitted and including some saw action already..I guess it's no longer MINT and doesn't matter what I do, shelf value will go down from here...

 

What does the resin kit represent?

ship? airplane?

 

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Hancock, Me USA
Posted by p38jl on Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:18 AM

Sprue-ce Goose

 potchip:

Just bought a $900 resin kit, and.....all boxes opened and parts trimmed and test fitted and including some saw action already..I guess it's no longer MINT and doesn't matter what I do, shelf value will go down from here...

 

What does the resin kit represent?

ship? airplane?

 

1/350 scale city ???Indifferent

[Photobucket]

  • Member since
    September 2010
Posted by potchip on Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:19 AM

Basically my avatar.  A mech, or giant robot. Kit weighs 12kg.

Something similar to this..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kacarot_prince_cxxvi/2127513783/

Ever since AUD reached then went beyond parity with USD, online purchases didn't feel as bad!

 

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