Absentee Contest Wins

I've always been a fan of "Must Be Present to Win", m'self...

Interesting question. Here is the exact passage from the IPMS rule book "

A member may also serve as a "proxy" to enter models for a fellow member who is not attending the convention. Entry fees for proxy models may be set at the discretion of the Host Chapter. All entries except chapter/group entries must be the sole work of the individual whose name is on the entry blank."

So you see, it is perfectly "legal" to have someone enter your work by proxy assuming you know about it.

Personally, I have no problem with it but that's probably because the club I belong to. The nearest show to us besides our own is nearly 3 hrs away and most of them are closer to 5-6 hrs away. Not everyone can get off work or afford to make more than one trip like that a year so very often the 2-3 people that do go haul a few kits with them from other members. Another angle is should a modeler not get to compete because of time or financial restrains?

I dislike trophy hounds as much as the next person and that does happen but by restricting proxy entries you also cut the legs off those who want to compete for honest reasons but can't.

What about those of us who have to work alot of weekends?  It seems like that's the time when most shows are held and I happen to work many Saturdays and Sundays.  So should I not be allowed to enter into contests?

How does being there in person make any difference?  I personally don't want to win a 1st place simply because the guy who built the better model couldn't physically be there.

I'm pretty sure that IPMS ruled that with good intentions, to ensure as large a turn-out as possible..  But on the other hand, I figgered out a way t' be there, so why can't someone else manage it?

On the OTher other hand, the road t' Hell is paved with good intentions, as the poet said.... I reckon it'll stay the same anyway, so meanwhile, I got a B-25 to wreck... Couldn't do a proxy with that either.. Too many greeblies are gonna be on, sticking them together after they come loose or get knocked off in transit while be reqired upon arrival..

Hans von Hammer

I'm pretty sure that IPMS ruled that with good intentions, to ensure as large a turn-out as possible..  But on the other hand, I figgered out a way t' be there, so why can't someone else manage it?

Just to play devil's advocate, I've been at a couple of shows where models were entered proxy because the modeler couldn't be there because he/she was military deployed overseas.

Cheers, Aaron

Personally, I would not enter a model into any competition that I could not attend...  I'm just funny that way.

The door prizes, vendors tables and discussing modeling with fellow modelers!

I look at it like there will be more to enter at the contest when I attend the following year if I cannot make this years event

Jason

Aaron Skinner

Hans von Hammer:

I'm pretty sure that IPMS ruled that with good intentions, to ensure as large a turn-out as possible..  But on the other hand, I figgered out a way t' be there, so why can't someone else manage it?

 

Just to play devil's advocate, I've been at a couple of shows where models were entered proxy because the modeler couldn't be there because he/she was military deployed overseas.

Cheers, Aaron

I'm sure that's true, (and quite noble) Aaron, but I doubt the rule was written after 9/11...  That is, if you're talking about deployed overseas to a combat zone (or anywhere where one is eligible for Hostile Fire/Imminent Danger Pay) and not a PCS to OCONUS duty stations.. PCS (Permenant Change of Station) moves are routine, and Soldier-Modelers are free to join the host-country's IPMS chapters.  I belonged to the chapter in Hohenfels, Germany for two and a half years while I was with the 3rd Herd (3rd Armored Division)..... Heh, there were almost as many Amerikaner Soldaten in the chapter as Germans, lol.. 

A couple of them were old-timers (this was in the 80s) that had served in the Waffen-SS as Infantry, and one ol' Clanker that became a close friend of mine who served with the 2nd Panzer Division, and been a gunner on Mark IVs and later, Panthers (hence my propensity for telling stories with the Tamiya Panther A om dioramas.. They're his stories, lol).. Talk about good refs! Wish I'd had the technology then I do now... Sadly, Deiter passed away in 1992...

Dunno about Sailors who are on a 6-month cruise...  

interesting ideas and thoughts, I can see both sides of the coin now - I would have to say originally when I posted this I was speaking more about persons who live in the area, enter contests regularly, and are head and shoulders above other modelers.  This person I respect highly, but I just found it as a "hmmm" moment as he has won pretty much every category he has ever entered.  If he was there, I certainly would have asked him what he did to make such an exceptional model.  That is part of our experience in a very solitary hobby to be able to share that experience with others so we can be better ourselves

I've seen modelers who were at the show, but had to leave early (travel time or whatever) have a friend or fellow club member accept the award during the ceremony.

The one time my 10 yr old daughter entered into a contest, we stayed because one of the organizers informed me she won several awards. The show ran late and it was taking a toll on her. If she hadn't won something, I would have left with her and let one of my club members pick up any awards I may have won (we both won 4 trophies each).

We still had a long drive home, and she never entered another kit again. Her fun meter had pegged.

Entries, either in person or by proxy, support the cost of the event. Too few entries and classes are closed or, even worse, the event ceases to exist.

Yesterday, I dropped off models for a display with a club member who is setting it up for me at a museum a couple hours away. I had plans (weather cancelled them) for this morning to support a cycling friend but also wanted to support the modeling friend and his event not a competition. I will be going out tomorrow to be there in person.

At any given show, some folks have to leave early and what you're seeing may be just that. A guy who enterred, stayed around through judging but had to leave before the final bell and had friends accept for him. You can't tell the circumstances.

Also, especially for the larger events, someone may have been working on a model just for that show and an emergency crops up. Why shouldn't he be allowed to pay his fee and have someone else put the model on the table. It will receive the same attention from the judges regardless of where the builder is.

And you, the paying public, get more plastic to look at, his absence makes it eassier to win the door prizes and reduces your competition for bargains in the vendor room.

We had our yearly contest this past weekend (Sproo-doo XI)... There were several Proxy entries, one of which won Best of Civilian and not one person booed when the award was presented to the friend that had brought it.... in fact, everyone clapped. Modeler present or not, we were thrilled to have the entries.

The way I see it, it's still revenue for the club and entrants that otherwise wouldn't be there.

Just my though...

I'm still on the "Must Be Present to Win" side of the fence... Frankly speaking, it IS a contest, after all, and not a "show"...  I'll take any advantage I can get in a competion... 

And if it's a club member that wins, I'll be the first one to holler "Fixed!"

(That last was in jest, BTW)

Whether or not a contest requires one to be there or not, I still go, I still pays m' dime,  I still compete, and I lose quite gracefully...

 And often...

When I go, I have no aspirations of winning anything. I tend to bring enough of my kits to enter based on the entry fee. If the additional kit fee is cheap and I have more newly completed models, I'll bring them.

I once drove a guy to a show who must have brought a dozen, perhaps almost 20, small scale aircraft. I was hoodwinked into driving (a few of us were supposed to meet at his place and carpool there, but I was the only one to show and he didn't have a car, coincidence?). We stayed because he had so many kits that were going to win awards. After that, I've never volunteered to carpool to a show again.

If I feel like staying and think my kits have a chance of winning something, I stay. If not, I'm not adverse to taking my kits and heading home. I've got enough dusty plaques sitting in a cardboard box to cover a wall. I don't need any more.

I've got enough dusty plaques sitting in a cardboard box to cover a wall.

That the Army "I Love Me Wall" or the Modeler "I Love Me Wall", Colonel?

My "Army Wall" is so damned cluttered, I have to leave 'em up because of the rectangular bare spots that would force me to paint if I take 'em down...  Covers some holes in the sheetrock though...

My Army "I love me wall" would cover the side of my two story house. The modeling "I love me wall" would cover a wall in my home office (I made the formal living room my office). I have 29 years of military service between the National Guard and Regular Army. My model show career is only about 15 years, so about half my military career.

My final gag gift upon retirement was a high end light saber mounted on a plaque like my cavalry saber. I guess they thought it a fitting blade for a Jedi Tanker. The dang thing was like $125. They chose green since it is the closest thing to armor yellow.
http://www.hasbro.com/shop/details.cfm?guid=64EC3FC5-19B9-F369-1039-5CE4A6C88E6A

Hans von Hammer

I'm still on the "Must Be Present to Win" side of the fence... Frankly speaking, it IS a contest, after all, and not a "show"...  I'll take any advantage I can get in a competion... 

That makes sense IF the contest is to build at teh event. NO one is truly completing as in a race the day of the contest. Your entry will or won;t place depending on what is on the table, not if the person is present. It's not a raffle, though it might be considered a crap shoot based on what shows up the day of the show.

The only true day of the event competitions I've ever heard of were team builds where the person who is hands on is blindfolded and being guided by a person who isn't and the event where a sledgehammer is dropped from a step ladder onto a model. The winner is the model whose parts scatter the farthest. Another was a "carrier deck landing" wherein a modeler usess a wire guide to "land" his model on the deck of a carrier. In all these events, there is much weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth on the part of the plastic involved.

I have no problem with absentee entrees.  I have even entered some friends models at local and National contest.  I don't like doing it really,  to much work and responsibility.  And they act like was my fault if they don't win,  in one case anyway, a long time ago.  So it goes.

I recall at the Phoenix Nationals a few years ago when some entrant had to leave early.  He had a buddy pick up his models for him Saturday night.   I guess he didn't have a very good list of which models to pick up, because his friend picked up one of mine, a non winner by the way,  by mistake.So it was gone when I got to the contest room.  Really gone.  After much work, the guys from the convention found out who it was, and a few weeks later it was sent back to me, unharmed.  He was a great guy, very sorry for what happened.  So sometimes errors can  happen with absentee entrants.  Probably rare.

Doug

I see no reason to not allow proxy entries.

There are no real disadvantages unless you're placing your desire to win above the overall show's interest and draw. You get more to look at. The show takes in more money. Even if you don't get to talk to the modeler, you get to see the kit live and at least discus it, if not try and get a name to find out who to talk to later.

My wife is into model horses, and there's a lot of proxying in that hobby as well. People like it because it allows them to see new models instead of their friends same horses year after year.

With the sometimes-dismal turnout at some shows that I've been to, I would say "Let 'em compete!".Anything that gets more models on the table sand more competition is a good thing.

Personally, I would like to see the guy who wins, and comfort myself that at least I have better hair than him, , but if he's not there, it doesn't really bother me. I was at a big contest once, and had to go pick up my fiance' from a school function across town, and so missed some of the awards.

It's tempting to think that someone's just plunking down models to get wood for their walls, but that might be being a bit overly-cynical?

I don't think it's really cynical, but at the same time, different people enjoy the hobby in different ways. Some go to shows to look at models, some go to socialize, some go to win. I think any variety can be taken to the extreme,  but in and of themselves, no one is better or "more correct" than another.

Imagine this:  You place your model on the table and then someone else places a model on the table next to yours.  Unfortunately for you the other model is clearly better than yours.  But the other model is being entered by a proxy which disqualifies it from competition.

Now everybody who is at the show can see that your model is inferior.  But when the awards are presented you get first place and the other model gets nothing because it was entered by a proxy.  And since you were standing there near your model when the awards were given out you heard all the little comments like "Seriously?" or "You're kidding me!" or "He must be friends with the judges."  Are you really gonna be ok with that?  

And how are you going to react when someone walks up to you and says: "You realize the other model deserved to win, right?  Anyway, congrats."

Heck, this is almost as cheesy as getting a first place simply because your model was the only one in its category.  If you want a competitive edge build better models.

the doog

It's tempting to think that someone's just plunking down models to get wood for their walls, but that might be being a bit overly-cynical?

I've seen trophy hounds, guys who constantly put the same mediocre build up show after show, year after year, in hopes of someday getting an award. Seems rather lame to me.

I also know of people who have entered (or tried to enter) pre-built display models into contests as well as folks who have purchased models from modelers who have won contests with that kit and have tried to enter the purchased model on their own.

Some people are very sad.

A plague on all their houses!!

I think, if it gets more entries into contests, it doesn't hurt anything. The one that I (try) to go to every year varies enormously in the number of entries in each category. The one I favor, ships, has ranged from a low of 6 to a high of about 20. Anything that boosts the number - as long as it's ethical - is fine by me.

Fly-n-hi

Imagine this:  You place your model on the table and then someone else places a model on the table next to yours.  Unfortunately for you the other model is clearly better than yours.  But the other model is being entered by a proxy which disqualifies it from competition.

Now everybody who is at the show can see that your model is inferior.  But when the awards are presented you get first place and the other model gets nothing because it was entered by a proxy.  And since you were standing there near your model when the awards were given out you heard all the little comments like "Seriously?" or "You're kidding me!" or "He must be friends with the judges."  Are you really gonna be ok with that?  

And how are you going to react when someone walks up to you and says: "You realize the other model deserved to win, right?  Anyway, congrats."

Heck, this is almost as cheesy as getting a first place simply because your model was the only one in its category.  If you want a competitive edge build better models.

Then let me modify my earlier statement from "Must be Present to Win" to, "Must be Present to Compete."...  Proxy-entrants will be displayed only...  Then everyone can "ooh and ahh" accordingly...  After all, the "true joy" for those is the showing, right? Not the competition? 

Truthfully, I've judged at a lot of shows, and I've always been a bit bugged-off by those who consistantly enter, yet can't be bothered with appearing in person... And there're a LOT of those guys out there...  Yet, show after show, I pull MY entrants off the judging table and put 'em on the display table just to help out a club, both financially and with my time,  that can't even get it's own members to all show up... 

And as for those that do that, "You realize the other model deserved to win, right?  Anyway, congrats." low-rent kinda crap, they need to pull their entrants out and judge a few shows if they wanna critique a winner's build...

Hans von Hammer

can't be bothered with appearing in person...

We've already covered that. There's a lot of builders who can't show up, and labeling it as "can't be bothered" I find a little rash. Not everyone is retired and setting their own priorities.

I ran the IPMS Seattle Spring show for a number of years so I'm "a little" familiar with shows. I am curious as to how you think limiting the contest to those present only benefits the show in any way?