Why do we do what we do?

Well Navy,     I echo many of your thoughts. I often wonder why,,,,  why do I go through all the detail that will not be seen.      I enjoy adding the details...  plain and simple.   To me, much of the fun of the build is IN the build.

For me it's like you said, I'd know it's there!  Also, if I take the model to a contest there's the chance that this one little detail makes the difference between placing or not.

gonavycv64

As I'm sitting there staining the walls and floor of the Munsters living room, a thought popped into my head. 

Manstein's revenge

gonavycv64:

As I'm sitting there staining the walls and floor of the Munsters living room, a thought popped into my head. 

Okay...you lost me there...

The Munsters Living Room is a model by Polar Lights, that depicts the family sitting (or hanging) around the living room doing various things.  It has one wall and the floor.  I'm staining part of the wall and the floor area not covered by the rug.

AMT has put out the Munster cars, which I also have in my stash.

I think for me it's a combination of knowing it's there and the fact that if I didn't do it, I'd know it wasn't there. 

It's a good way to practice or hone techniques, and if it turns out all wonky, then no big whup because nobody's gonna see it anyway.

I think modeling is a lot about the "doing" rather than the finished product.  There's sort of a calming "Zen" to painting and detailing.

gonavycv64

 

Manstein's revenge:

 

 

gonavycv64:

As I'm sitting there staining the walls and floor of the Munsters living room, a thought popped into my head. 

 

Okay...you lost me there...

 

 

 

The Munsters Living Room is a model by Polar Lights, that depicts the family sitting (or hanging) around the living room doing various things.  It has one wall and the floor.  I'm staining part of the wall and the floor area not covered by the rug.

AMT has put out the Munster cars, which I also have in my stash.

Hadda be growing up in the 1960s to like the show and kits.................I just bought the Munster living room re-issue and would like add the Munster Show cars to my collection.

gonavycv64

Please post photos of you build when you finish.

Why do we do what we do?

The Three Stooges made a film about that very topic:

Hoi Polloi

As for me, it all started with the desire to have 3D representations of actual full size machines.

Of course, that was in the pre-CADD era.

I am one of those who details cockpits...and yes after its closed up you cant see much of the details...I also like to detail engines..but I know its there....and I always try to take pics.....for the record....but its also very satisfying to peak into a cockpit once its all finished and see lots of fiddly bits...oh and no pilots sitting stiffly in a seat...that REALLY covers up everything!!!

Because it's not there...

....that, and.....chicks dig fiddly bits!

gonavycv64

As I'm sitting there staining the walls and floor of the Munsters living room, a thought popped into my head.  Why am I staining this when no one else will probably notice that I didn't paint it but actually stained it.  It's amazing how much detail (regardless of ability level) we try to put into our models.  The more advanced we get, the more little details we notice and try to do something with them.  Yet, most people will never notice them.  I see peoples work on this forum and am blown away by the amount of detail they put into a cockpit, that once the pilot is in the seat and the canapy is closed, you can't see any of it. Or they detail out the covered underside of a tank that only has about 5% of the detail showing but they did the whole thing. The only answer I can come up with for myself is, I know it's there, I know what I did even if no one else does. I guess that's why we do the type of models that have meaning to us, the more we love the subject matter, the more willing we our to detail the hell out of it and enjoy doing it, even if no one else notices.

Just some random thoughts.

You are in good company. I've just finished reading the new Steve Jobs biography.

Evidently he was a strickler for craftsmanship. He insisted that even parts of the computer that will rarely be seen by the end user be of high quality.

The book relates one story about how he insisted that the motherboard on a computer series ready to go into production, I think it was the Apple  IIe, be redesigned be it looked the "S" word! This was one of his favorite words when he saw a product he didn't like.

Steve said his father always told him how important it was to build craftsmanship into every product, even parts that will never be seen.

I do what I do....because I can...

I button up my tanks, therefore I build nothing in the interior, other then maybe the gun so it'll stay up.

The cockpit thing makes me scratch my head too, but more will show up if there is no pilot and the canopy is left open. However, unless you get real close, you're not going to see much of the detail anyways.

I'm not big on adding detail to cockpits etc. that won't be visible.  If I did that, I'd never get the time to rescribe all the raised panel lines, find the "just right" shade of green or gray when there's no FS or similar color ID given, etc.

The main thing I can see as a "Why do I do this?" for myself is trying to choose the right colors for sci-fi kits.  Unlike "real life" subjects such as WWII planes or tanks, there's no need for historical accuracy, but I'll debate and ask fellow geeks' opinions on whether the X-Wing should be gray ( as it appears in most FX shots, and in the hangar shot of the original movie ) or metallic ( as the life-size prop appeared in Empire ).

Where I admit I'm maybe getting a little crazy is trying to choose colors for anime subjects.  Gundams would be easy ( bright red, white, yellow, and blue ), but take a look at the Phantom Labor from Patlabor.  What the heck do you go by there, with the box art and footage from the show being a night scene? 

I'm a BIG "add all the detail to it even if you can't see it" GROUPIE...

Why?

Because spending 6 hours detail painting wheel wells is time well spent.

I'll debate and ask fellow geeks' opinions on whether the X-Wing should be gray ( as it appears in most FX shots, and in the hangar shot of the original movie ) or metallic ( as the life-size prop appeared in Empire ).

Really? I've always painted  X-wings overall flat white and then heavily weathered them...     Never even considered them to be any shade of metalic grey or grey, other than possibly some where painted that way to match the lighting used in the FX shots...

Only sci-fi fighters I've done are the SW's TIE-Fighter (Vader version), and X-Wing and the classic "Battlestar Galactica" kits from Monogram . The TIE Fighter, I painted with a medium grey primer, and also the BSG (original series) Cylon Raider..   My Vipers were primer grey as well, although I went with a primer from Wal-Mart that was a slightly lighter shade, so they wouldn't look like they came from the same paint shop...

I think that the lightest shade of grey I'd use on the T-65 would be Model Master Camouflage Grey, which is about as white as a grey can get and still be called grey.. It also helps with those red decals a LOT...

I gotta admit though, that the re-release of the Viper kit with a cockpit was rather welcomed, as I didn't have another 1/32 Hasegawa A-4 Skyhawk to rob the cockpit tub from... (The control stick in the A-4 was a dead-ringer for the stick in the Viper, right down to the "inverted triangle" shape of the hand-grip...  )

When I was a kid, one Christmas, I got the Monogram B-17 kit as a present, and my best friend and next-door neighbor Jeff did, too.  He had his finished in a couple of days.  When Christmas vacation ended 10 days later, I had the interior sections painted and partially assembled.  I asked Jeff how he finished so fast, and whether he added the interior details.  His reply was, "No one's going to see it." Some questions are eternal 

Back then, I built kits because I enjoyed the hobby, but I also enjoyed learning the history behind this or that subject, and the way things worked (aerodynamics, motors, etc).  So I loved finishing the kit details (scratchbuilding was still off in the future).

Fast forward to today.  I still build because I love the hobby, and I like the details and like to learn about a subject.  But I also think about how many resources it will take to finish a build in one way or another.  If it will take a lot of time to add detail that won't be seen, then I probably will leave it out.  But if there's a chance that it can be seen, I'll add it, if possible.

I don't compete, so that doesn't enter into it.

I add all the little fiddly-bits cause at 1am every morning I can shrink myself down to 48th scale...I spend the rest of the night climbing in and through my extensive quarter-scale model collection pretending that I am a high-scoring fighter-ace...

Manstein's revenge

I add all the little fiddly-bits cause at 1am every morning I can shrink myself down to 48th scale...I spend the rest of the night climbing in and through my extensive quarter-scale model collection pretending that I am a high-scoring fighter-ace...

 My Dad could shrink himself down to the size of a mouse, to put the train cars back on the tracks, when they derailed in the tunnel.......very impressive! He cuold only do it when us kids were in bed though

it's a form of OCD... and the more you do it, the more obsessive it becomes...

Hans von Hammer

 

Really? I've always painted  X-wings overall flat white and then heavily weathered them...     Never even considered them to be any shade of metalic grey or grey, other than possibly some where painted that way to match the lighting used in the FX shots...

I think that the lightest shade of grey I'd use on the T-65 would be Model Master Camouflage Grey, which is about as white as a grey can get and still be called grey.. It also helps with those red decals a LOT...

While I lost the old X-wings I built years ago during a move, I'm considering finishing a started 1:72 one from FineMolds that I got in a lot on ebay a while back.  I don't know what color the instructions mention, but I was considering using FS light gray instead of Camo Gray.  I figure it'll make the red and yellow decals you mentioned stand out a little more.  I think the warmer Camo Gray will work better on the Falcon.

As far as the metallic option, the main shots I remember making me consider that were in the scene where Luke's climbing into his fighter to leave Hoth, where the skin didn't seem to have the same gray look as it did in the hangar scenes from Ep 4.  There's a strip near the cockpit that even looks a lot like brass.

Manstein's revenge

I'm a BIG "add all the detail to it even if you can't see it" GROUPIE...

I enjoy that sort of stuff

Kugai

Hans von Hammer:

 

Really? I've always painted  X-wings overall flat white and then heavily weathered them...     Never even considered them to be any shade of metalic grey or grey, other than possibly some where painted that way to match the lighting used in the FX shots...

I think that the lightest shade of grey I'd use on the T-65 would be Model Master Camouflage Grey, which is about as white as a grey can get and still be called grey.. It also helps with those red decals a LOT...

 

While I lost the old X-wings I built years ago during a move, I'm considering finishing a started 1:72 one from FineMolds that I got in a lot on ebay a while back.  I don't know what color the instructions mention, but I was considering using FS light gray instead of Camo Gray.  I figure it'll make the red and yellow decals you mentioned stand out a little more.  I think the warmer Camo Gray will work better on the Falcon.

As far as the metallic option, the main shots I remember making me consider that were in the scene where Luke's climbing into his fighter to leave Hoth, where the skin didn't seem to have the same gray look as it did in the hangar scenes from Ep 4.  There's a strip near the cockpit that even looks a lot like brass.

Ok, now you got be wanting pull out the tapes and pay more attention this time, lol... I've got the old MPC X-wing kit still in the stash and really do plan to build a diorama, specifically one with the X-wing being serviced in the hangar/cave on Yavin's moon...

Hans von Hammer

 

 

Ok, now you got be wanting pull out the tapes and pay more attention this time, lol... I've got the old MPC X-wing kit still in the stash and really do plan to build a diorama, specifically one with the X-wing being serviced in the hangar/cave on Yavin's moon...

If you're doing that as a dio, the full-size ships were light gray for that scene.

As far as more indications of a metallic finish in Empire, there's the 2 shots of luke passing the nose of his ship, once on Hoth before the other shot i mentioned, and again on Dagobah as Yoda sets it down and Luke walks up to it.

Some of the different colors in Star Wars was because of issues they discovered doing the FX shots.  The TIEs were originally supposed to be light blue, but the color they made ended up being non-photogenic and turned up white on film and they used darker blues and blue-grays for TIEs in the later films.  The X-wings were originally going to have bubble canopies, but that was changed because it caused problems with the bluescreen process and reflected the studio.  If the metallic look was something that was originally intended ( as I remember some publicity stills suggesting ), the same issues caused by reflectivity ( you can see similar issues left in ST:TMP caused by the glossy finish of some sections of the Enterprise in a few shots ) would have caused the change to gray.

You've got all my favorites listed: Because I can, and I know I did it; Because it bugs me to not have the fiddly bits. What's the point if there aren't fiddly bits? As build up for something even more complex that I'm thinking of doing. Because good craft is its own reward. Yes, Jobs was famous for a binary approach- if it wasn't great it was fertilizer. And that's about paying jobs and art, while models are in theory a hobby. But learning to balance what you attempt, so that you can do excellent work with the time and resources available, is a very adult skill. We all get the same 24 hours each day. The trick is figuring out how best to use them.

On the subject of light gray- I have to say that I don't think that much of 36495 or even 36622 grays- both are far too dark to represent the straight "Boeing Gray" seen on various bits of Boeing (and also Airbus, McDonnell Douglas, etc.) airplanes.  I finally settled on a 3 parts 36495 to 4 parts flat white mix, but sometimes I double the amount of white, to a 3:8 proportion. It never looks like white, its clearly a gray color. Bottom line, you can go a lot lighter than 495 or 622 out of a bottle. If you think your movie spaceship need lighter gray, go for it!

Bill

it's called love for the hobby mate. If it feels good do. You can be your worst critic. I go as far as i want .Idon't punch the clock everytime i start aqnd stop,but the results make me happy. If you like the look of stain go for it .