Talk about expensive

Stik, ebay had a couple Venturas up for bid today. good price including shipping.  I also got good news.  My son had purchased one for my Christmas from Tower Hobbies.  They notified him Saturday that it had shipped.  Oh boy, Oh boy, Oh boy!    Rick

Depending what state you live in, the total sounds about right for ModelMaster.  Sometimes, this hobby sucks (just kidding!!!)

2 variations on the same tip for saving money on buying paints online

the weight of paints is what drives up the shipping costs, so, order paints when you are buying other things that get you near the "free shipping" threshold, a lot of times, I have an order all together, and realize that I can get the paints for nearly free when I add them to the cart, and the shipping "bumps off" the cost

the other,,,,a bit more extreme,,,,,,but, every year or two, I make a "paint only" order,,,,,later this month, it will be 68 paints, plus clears, primers, etc,,,,and 5 decal sheets,,,,,,the total will be over the free shipping amount, average "cost per bottle" will be in the $3.25 each range, usually it is over $4.50 per if I order just 10 paints and have to pay shipping costs (these are LifeColor and MM Acryl, other brands will differ based on individual jar price)

Interesting points, everyone.

I have to say, though, that comparatively speaking I still think scale modeling is an affordable hobby. You can pay for the latest big-money kit or you can work on detailing an Airfix/Monogram/etc. classic with bits scratchbuilt from wire and sheet styrene. Either way, I think model building is great value for the money.

And as far as paint goes, I always have to chuckle at the "X amount per gallon" bit. I've been modeling for 30+ years, and I'd be hard pressed to think of any color I've used a whole gallon of in that timeframe. Alternately, I have lots of partial bottles of paint that I've had for many, many years. If you take care of paint and store it properly, it will last a long, long time.

Admittedly, I should pull one of the 20-years-and-counting unfinished kits out of my stash, and get to work on it with all those carefully preserved bottles of paint!

Matt @ FSM

Probably Flat Black would come the closest to the most used color over the years, and perhaps I have gone thru a gallon... But if you count how much of that was little Testors Squar bottle or old Polly S that were each well under a $.50 a bottle, the cost is not that high spread out over 40+ years...

stikpusher

Probably Flat Black would come the closest to the most used color...

Flat Black and White.

Technically not a color, but a finish, but I suspect I've gone through several gallons of Testors dullcoat throughout my 40 years of modeling. Of course, as an armor builder, it is normally the last thing that hits the model before it becomes a dust collector.

As a hobby, I agree that it is less expensive than most hobbies men (not sure women) partake in. The basic tools probably cost around $100-200* total spread over the cost of several decades and will last a lifetime. The consumables (paint, blades, brushes, sanding stuff, putty, glues) are pricey but again will last years depending on rate of build.

Now, the main object of the hobby, the actual kit, runs $40-50 today and will bring hours of joy and satisfaction if you spent wisely. The expensive part of the hobby is the endless purchasing of model kits that we will someday build.

*$100-200 does not includes airbrush, pin drills, paint booth, etc. and is a rather low estimate, but aren't items you have to purchase up front.

But if you use modeling tools and supplies to build or repair common household items, that can be grounds to reduce the expenses of the hobby, or better yet remove the cost of certain supplies and tools from the hobby category all together.  For instance, I use my Dremel for so many household chores, I consider it a tool, not a hobby tool.  I've found through my employer that simple accounting techniques like this can be valuable in balancing and justifying accounts.  Rick. 

To the original topic...

My HobbyTown is charging $3-something for Model Master, and around that for Tamiya in the small jars.  Testor's enamels are a little less, $2-something (sorry for the somethings, it's been a while since I had to buy paint).

I have been buying more acrylics at the craft stores, Michael's and AC Moore, where they will put a bottle on sale for less than a buck, often under 85 cents.  Not Vallejo or Andrea, perhaps, but they get the job done.

To the topic of the next generation, I'll ask all of you who bemoan that kids aren't interested--What have you done to ensure that kids in your life are exposed to and develop an enjoyment for the hobby?  Do you give up, just because they want to play video games/Playstation/Wii, or do you concede the point but throw another lob their way?  Go at them from another angle, too--expose them to history or science fiction and other subjects that are represented in scale modeling.   If you get them interested in a subject, it can make it easier and logical to get them interested in building representations of those things.

Best regards,

Brad

Now, the main object of the hobby, the actual kit, runs $40-50 today and will bring hours of joy and satisfaction if you spent wisely. The expensive part of the hobby is the endless purchasing of model kits that we will someday build.

When Revell can release a 1/48 scale, twin-engine, WW2 aircaft that retails for around 28 bucks, yet Tamiya wants 70.00 bucks for the about same thing, something's wrong, Rob & Matt..... JMHO, but no injection-molded kit in 1/48 scale or 1/35th scale should cost more than a tank of gas..

Baron, if you mean the Hobbytown at Lehigh Valley Mall. I was just there earlier today.  Model Master Enamels at $3.69/ half ounce, Tamiya at $2.59/ third ounce and Testor's Enamels at $1.89/ quarter ounce.  For 7 MM paints, 2 Tamiya and 1 Testor's plus 1 small kit , 1/2 pint thinner,5 pack # 11 blades, 3 brushes, clear parts cement and a 3 pack of .02 styrene for just under $90.00.  This will last me a while, but with 6 builds going, they'll go quicker than I would like.  

As for trying to get my kids interested, it worked as long as the novelty held out.  Why build a model when you're the only of your friends doing it, and they're all out having fun together.  My youngest is 18, his interests are more towards the full scale things in life (cars,. girls etc. ).  But maybe one day he'll come around.  In the meantime, I'll concentrate on my 11 year old nephew.  He's always amazed and drawn to my dioramas and armor builds, so maybe there's hope yet.  To paraphrase Mark Twain, " reports of the hobby's death are extremely exaggerated".

By the way, I'm in Slationgton

As for trying to get my kids interested, it worked as long as the novelty held out.  Why build a model when you're the only of your friends doing it, and they're all out having fun together. 

I haven't figured out how it happened, but my daughter was the one that got interested in building models, although her passion ofr a great while was car-kits, especially about the the time she had gotten her driver's permit.. Then she was a full-blown gear-head, lol.. Her two brothers, well.. They were more interested in sports, ans also did a lot of paintballing..  But Mandy still built models with th' old man..

After she got into the Army DEP, she started with armor and helicopters, not surpisingly, since she was going to flight school to be an Army Aviator.  Guess she'll always be "Daddy's Girl", lol.. ..

But now, it's my grandkids.. Grandson couldn't care less, but my oldest grand-daughter always wants to build one when she comes over. I've so far given her a P-38, a Blue Angels F/A-18, a Tuskeegee AIrmen's P-51B, and a Corsair, all in 148th scale, 'cept for the Bug.

She's just like her Mom..

To the topic of the next generation, I'll ask all of you who bemoan that kids aren't interested--What have you done to ensure that kids in your life are exposed to and develop an enjoyment for the hobby?  Do you give up, just because they want to play video games/Playstation/Wii, or do you concede the point but throw another lob their way?  Go at them from another angle, too--expose them to history or science fiction and other subjects that are represented in scale modeling.   If you get them interested in a subject, it can make it easier and logical to get them interested in building representations of those things.

Best regards,

Brad

I've done a lot, probably more than you have. With six kids (yes 6) between the ages of 26 and 7, every single one of them have been exposed to modeling and have built kits with me and alone (except for the 7 yr old, he's not up to glue just yet).

Additionally, a couple of my nephews have built kits with me (just the one who lives near by and the one who stayed with us for a summer). I've also handed out more Italeri HMMWVs to neighborhood kids with those cheap tubes of Testors glue. Since I've spent the vast majority of the last quarter century living on military bases, HMMWVs are universally recognized by my kids' friends and I know their dads will be more than willing to help out since I work with many of them (the dads).

When I used to help out with local shows, I often helped with the make & takes if they were offered. Several of my kids have attended shows with me. Only my 18 yr old daughter (when she was younger) entered the local contest. She won four trophies, even though one was for 3rd of 3, she still gave it her best. She should have won a 5th; the contest organizers told me they found out a dad had built a kit for his son and it was entered it as his son's work by mistake. I told them that she was fine with the 4 and to let the boy take that one home. It didn't seem right to take back a trophy from a kid to give to a girl with four wins already.

The 7 yr old has assisted with just about every Revell Star Wars kit. I gave him the old AMT droid fighter kit to build (a 3-pack), but he broke one of them and I told him we should set it aside to build the other two when his fine motor skills were better. I bought him the Revell Slave 1 Boba Fett ship for Christmas. We'll build it together in the next few days.

Strangely, my only kids to build well and stick with it for any length of time were my two daughters. Although both have long since left modeling, the 23 yr old was adept at building cars and these little Pokemon models when she was younger. The 18 yr old prefered the older Tamiya armor kits like the Panzer II F/G, M151A2 Jeep and she loved the old Tamiya Pink Panther.

Rob Gronovius

 

Strangely, my only kids to build well and stick with it for any length of time were my two daughters.

Hammer sed:

"I haven't figured out how it happened, but my daughter was the one that got interested in building models"

A, Women rule.

2. Gotta love it.

and last, great thing that they follow in Dad's footsteps. It makes my day, every day.

Rob Gronovius

I've done a lot, probably more than you have. With six kids (yes 6) between the ages of 26 and 7, every single one of them have been exposed to modeling and have built kits with me and alone (except for the 7 yr old, he's not up to glue just yet).

Additionally, a couple of my nephews have built kits with me (just the one who lives near by and the one who stayed with us for a summer). I've also handed out more Italeri HMMWVs to neighborhood kids with those cheap tubes of Testors glue. Since I've spent the vast majority of the last quarter century living on military bases, HMMWVs are universally recognized by my kids' friends and I know their dads will be more than willing to help out since I work with many of them (the dads).

When I used to help out with local shows, I often helped with the make & takes if they were offered. Several of my kids have attended shows with me. Only my 18 yr old daughter (when she was younger) entered the local contest. She won four trophies, even though one was for 3rd of 3, she still gave it her best. She should have won a 5th; the contest organizers told me they found out a dad had built a kit for his son and it was entered it as his son's work by mistake. I told them that she was fine with the 4 and to let the boy take that one home. It didn't seem right to take back a trophy from a kid to give to a girl with four wins already.

The 7 yr old has assisted with just about every Revell Star Wars kit. I gave him the old AMT droid fighter kit to build (a 3-pack), but he broke one of them and I told him we should set it aside to build the other two when his fine motor skills were better. I bought him the Revell Slave 1 Boba Fett ship for Christmas. We'll build it together in the next few days.

Strangely, my only kids to build well and stick with it for any length of time were my two daughters. Although both have long since left modeling, the 23 yr old was adept at building cars and these little Pokemon models when she was younger. The 18 yr old prefered the older Tamiya armor kits like the Panzer II F/G, M151A2 Jeep and she loved the old Tamiya Pink Panther.

Yes, you have, Rob, at least in that regard:  I'm single, and no kids (that I know of).  But congratulations on your many blessings!

Thanks for your response, that's precisely what I'm talking about.  Those are the kinds of things we need to do, and those are the things I think of, when I hear guys complain that there's no interest among the kids, to take up the hobby.  Same goes for my hobby of toy soldiers and miniatures, the complaints are the same, and the resolution is, too.

Thanks, Kettenkopf, that's the one, and hello to you up on that side of the Valley!  I'm on the north side of Bethl'm, myself (or "Beth-lee-hem" as they say in Ahllentahwn, nahw).

Thanks for refreshing my memory, that sounds like the prices, the last time I was in (Gunther from WAEB did a live remote, so I stopped in to buy supplies and get another WAEB coffee cup )

Do you ever get over to Trains 'n' Lanes on Route 33 below Stockertown?  That's a good place to go hunting, too.  There used to be a hobby supplier in Northampton, too, Krueger's, I think it was, I looked him up once, because he carried PE sets for ships, but I'm not sure he's around now.

I usually by some paints along side a few models, it gets me around a $5 discount. Because I am such a regular customer.

My LHS only stocks humbrol & Tamiya acrylics, and humbrol enamels.

I try to expose as many kids to modeliing as I can. I know most will not carry on with it, but maybe when they are older, they will return to modeling as an adult.

Our hobby is truly pricing itself out of range of kids though. They have gone to where the money is; male adults over the age of 30.

Rob Gronovius

Our hobby is truly pricing itself out of range of kids though. They have gone to where the money is; male adults over the age of 30.

Oh, I think you can still get some very nice, basic and simple kits for $20 or less, all of the classics from Revell-Monogram, for example, and Testor's.  Also, at shows and on eBay, you can find good deals on kits that are good starter kits to give to a kid (or that he could buy with his own money).  I agree, though, that from the manufacturer's perspective, it's our demographic that is the most profitable one.

troublemaker66

 

Cadet Chuck:

 

Calculate the price per gallon of paint, vs. the price of gasoline or even fine aged Scotch whiskey, and you'll realize what a rip-off paint prices are!

 

 

Hey Chuck...I did just that in another thread and IIRC...it`s something like $900.00 a gallon for Model Master paints....lol.

 

But would anyone really want to buy it by the gallon to save $? I must have 50-60 bottles from various suppliers, I certainly wouldn't want to try & store those - by the gallon!

the Baron

Rob Gronovius:

Our hobby is truly pricing itself out of range of kids though. They have gone to where the money is; male adults over the age of 30.

 

Oh, I think you can still get some very nice, basic and simple kits for $20 or less, all of the classics from Revell-Monogram, for example, and Testor's.  Also, at shows and on eBay, you can find good deals on kits that are good starter kits to give to a kid (or that he could buy with his own money).  I agree, though, that from the manufacturer's perspective, it's our demographic that is the most profitable one.

Bingo on the demographic... The target ain't the kids with the paper routes and lawn-mowers...  But it's dis-heartening when the 'targets' come forums like this and run down the Classic kits...  But on the other hand, that's what keeps me building 'em...

I've got gobs of Tamigawa-types, and I paid stupid amounts for some of them too, but they were the only game in town for the subject and scale.. Add to it that I don't need every "ausf" of every tank so that's taken care of,  and "Paper Panzers" are a joke, so that ain't an expense... Don't need the Tamiya Spitfire and P-51D in 1/32 scale, got Monogram and Revell for that...  I mean, I have a P-51D on the shelf, a P-51B, AND a Mustang III, and a couple Spitfires too, so what th' hell do I want with another Pony or Spit that costs over a hundred bucks? Get real, Tamiya...  

Trumpeter, who you kidding with that C-47? You didn't even  include a freakin' pilot, so I can't build a diorama with what yer given me for a hundred bucks, so why should buy it when Monogram's Skytrain allows me to build a D-day diorama with whats in the box for 30.00 bucks? 

I hope some of you manufacturer-types read here... I got your number, and I ain't fooled by it...  Y'all ain't a dime form me or anyone I know personally (unless you get a cut from that guy in Minneapolis that's having an estate sale of his dead uncle's stash-kits on E-bay)... 

You make a 30.00 kit, add a few out-of-scale recessed lines, make an instruction sheet read like a pilot's manual,  turn a 190-part kit into a 600-part kit with individual track links, throw in a fret of brass greebles,add a metal barrel,  and then charge a week's-worth of groceries for it, and don't even include a freakin' Tank Commander figure?

NUTS!

So when was model paint ever cheap?

I can remember the days of $ .79 Testors and it wasn't exactly cheap then. I can specifically recall a time when I was a kid when Testors went up by about 50% and looking for alternative sources of paint. Getting back into the hobby after about 30 years away the prices of paint has not given me any pause at all. Now the price of models is another story. Seems the stuff that was "pricey" at the time, mostly the 1/48 Revellogram aircraft are dirt cheap.

Hans von Hammer

Bingo on the demographic... The target ain't the kids with the paper routes and lawn-mowers... 

Just curious, but when was the last time you saw a kid on a bike delivering papers my freind? Or a local neighborhood kid who canvassed the streets looking for lawns to mow. Those jobs are gone. At least around here. Lawns are mowed by immigrants of questionable status or the homeowner (if he is related to the vonHammersteins ), and papers are delivered well before dawn by some guy in a car to the few remaining subscribers... What we did as kids to earn money legally (except maybe to the tax man) does not exist anymore.

All my kids have tried their hand at model building, and my two younger ones have showed more interest than the older two. My son showing the longest interest with it crossing over into his fascination with Anime and Sci Fi, so he still likes to build the occasional Gundam. But with so many other things competing for their attention, this hobby is a distant competitor for them.

the Baron

 

Rob Gronovius:

 

Our hobby is truly pricing itself out of range of kids though. They have gone to where the money is; male adults over the age of 30.

 

 

Oh, I think you can still get some very nice, basic and simple kits for $20 or less, all of the classics from Revell-Monogram, for example, and Testor's.  Also, at shows and on eBay, you can find good deals on kits that are good starter kits to give to a kid (or that he could buy with his own money).  I agree, though, that from the manufacturer's perspective, it's our demographic that is the most profitable one.

RE: basic, simple kits - Don't forget several of the simpler Tamiya 1/48 planes - their Bf 109E, various Fw 190s, P-51s, Wildcat, their older Zero etc are all pretty easy to find for under $20 and IMO the engineering may make them better "starter" kits since you wouldn't have to scratchbuild a non-existent cockpit or fight a canyon-sized gap in a wing root. 

Or Airfix - I just grabbed their 109E-1/3/4 for $17 and it looks fantastic and simple. Their Spit XII is comparable. 

RE: profitable demographics - This has always been true. Kids have no money. I would argue this shift started long ago, probably around the time Monogram shifted from toy-like features to more accurate, detailed, static kits. You can't tell me Shep Paine's books were aimed at the kid slathering paint on a slapped-together plane and flying it around the backyard. For that kid, a book like How to Build Dioramas might be the lightning bolt that spurs them to bigger and better things, sure, but when I read it (or heck, FSM) it's not focused at kid modelers.

the Baron

Rob Gronovius:

Our hobby is truly pricing itself out of range of kids though. They have gone to where the money is; male adults over the age of 30.

 

Oh, I think you can still get some very nice, basic and simple kits for $20 or less, all of the classics from Revell-Monogram, for example, and Testor's.  Also, at shows and on eBay, you can find good deals on kits that are good starter kits to give to a kid (or that he could buy with his own money).  I agree, though, that from the manufacturer's perspective, it's our demographic that is the most profitable one.

In the small nothing town I grew up in Vermont, there was a department store, hardware store, camera shop and a five and dime that carried model kits of some degree. I know if I went back to my home town, there would not be a single model kit sold by a retailer in town.

Now, today I did notice model kits have returned to my Walmart. I saw a Testors Mustang and Corsair easy kit and several boxed Revell-Monogram cars, a red Ferarri convertable and white civilian Hummer. There was also that ancient Ford Tri-motor kit that comes with the dogsled team. These are probably the only kits accessible to young neighborhood kids. Didn't think to check the price, but I doubt even my 14 yr old would spend a dime on a model kit let alone the $10+ those kits probably cost.

I'm not driving at the moment (long story), but if I can cadge a ride that way I do.  Prices seem a little better there than at HT.  And as a 1/35 WWII armor builder, I like there selection over HT.  I'm a transplanted Jersey boy, so I'm not familiar with what was around here, but I know Trains 'n' Lanes once also  had a store in the Phillipsburg Mall.  And I did get to stop in to Rosemont Hobbies when he was just outside Northampton, but, alas, he closed up shortly after.  Seems like the hobby shops and their selections are getting thinner.  I'll have to ask some of my modeling buddies up here abour Kreuger's, but I've never heard them mention it.  Maybe it's time to open my own store.

VanceCrozier

troublemaker66:

 

Cadet Chuck:

 

Calculate the price per gallon of paint, vs. the price of gasoline or even fine aged Scotch whiskey, and you'll realize what a rip-off paint prices are!

 

 

Hey Chuck...I did just that in another thread and IIRC...it`s something like $900.00 a gallon for Model Master paints....lol.

 

 

But would anyone really want to buy it by the gallon to save $? I must have 50-60 bottles from various suppliers, I certainly wouldn't want to try & store those - by the gallon!

Big_Dog

So when was model paint ever cheap?

 

I can remember the days of $ .79 Testors and it wasn't exactly cheap then. I can specifically recall a time when I was a kid when Testors went up by about 50% and looking for alternative sources of paint. Getting back into the hobby after about 30 years away the prices of paint has not given me any pause at all. Now the price of models is another story. Seems the stuff that was "pricey" at the time, mostly the 1/48 Revellogram aircraft are dirt cheap.

stikpusher

Hans von Hammer:

Bingo on the demographic... The target ain't the kids with the paper routes and lawn-mowers... 

 

Just curious, but when was the last time you saw a kid on a bike delivering papers my freind? Or a local neighborhood kid who canvassed the streets looking for lawns to mow. Those jobs are gone. At least around here. Lawns are mowed by immigrants of questionable status or the homeowner (if he is related to the vonHammersteins), and papers are delivered well before dawn by some guy in a car to the few remaining subscribers... What we did as kids to earn money legally (except maybe to the tax man) does not exist anymore.

 

Kinda my point, Stikker...   Although I think my kids were the last generation that did that stuff, there's still some around, at least in this town...   

But I still don't get why it's such that the guys who came from the generation that DID pay /39 cents to a 1/50 for a kit put up with what kits cost now... After all, it's a buyer's market...   At least it used to be... Now it seems that people will drop what amounts to a week's worth of groceries on a kit, rather than what they'd pay for a sandwich...  

I have a theory, and it's a good one, but no way to type it in here without getting "run outta town on a rail", lol... But it has a lot to do with the quickly declining number of modelers who use time and imagination vs. those who use prefer to use their wallets.. 

Suffice to say that I'd challenge anyone who competes to use only their talent, tools, parts-box, sheet and strip styrene, and the same Monogram, HAWK, or similar kit to a "build-off"...

Hans von Hammer

I have a theory, and it's a good one, but no way to type it in here without getting "run outta town on a rail", lol... But it has a lot to do with the quickly declining number of modelers who use time and imagination vs. those who use prefer to use their wallets.. 

I'm building two 1/48 Razorbacks right now. One Tamiya, one Monogram (the current Revell reissue). 

I'm actually very pleasantly surprised by how well the Revellogram fits together - the wingroots on the Razor are much better than on the Bubbletop I did last year.

BUT...in terms of the details, the R/M falls down. Hard. One piece engine, shallow detail, molded onto a backplate that also includes a thick intake splitter. The cockpit is the same one-piece tub. Not awful, especially for what it is, but it looks pitiful next to the Tamiya (or next to the Revell -N or the Academy Jugs).

I know, I know, gizmology. But correcting either of these two would entail scrapping both entire structures and starting from scratch. In the case of the R-2800, it'd require sourcing an engine from elsewhere, the act of which alone would raise the cost of the kit to what I paid for the Tamiya ($20). 

Then there's the thick canopy.

I'm currently pondering my approach to this...I don't have a vacform but I'm considering trying my hand at thermoforming. There's a vacform canopy for this kit, but it's part of a multipack that includes a bunch of other aircraft I don't have and don't intend to have. So $25 for one canopy, and suddenly we're looking at $40 for one kit...2X what I paid for the Tamiya and more than the Tamiya plus any aftermarket goodies combined.

Different people like different aspects of modeling. I like detailing, I like painting, I like weathering. I suffer scratchbuilding. I'll do it when called upon to get the model where I want it, but to me its about as much fun as pulling weeds or sanding seams. 

If that makes me less of a modeler, fantastic. I'm in this for my own reasons, and to me $5 is a very small price for not having to scratchbuild major elements of the aircraft or deal with a canopy that's made out of that 6" plexi the use in the shark tunnel at Sea World.