To count the rivets, or not count the rivets.

I would like to think of myself as a "rivet counter". However, the reality of the situation is my skills are not up to that level, so I do what I can.

I am happy if it was a fun build and the subject is recognisable for what it is supposed to represent. Counting rivets is in my opinion just a way for some people to deal with their own insecurities. In real life you can put two identical subjects next to each other and have a really fruitious "spot the difference" contest. If you want to count the rivets, make sure everything, and I mean everything, that is on the real McCoy, is duplicated on the model. If not, counting rivets and taking out the scale ruler is an excersise in futility.

Exactly

For me, it's just fun to build....and for a 'rivet counter' it's fun for them to count rivets......So as long as everyone is having fun, I'm happy!! HEY, quit counting the rivets on my models man!!!!!

I think this is a good time to invoke Pixilater's motto:
"Build what you like, like what you build.?

I feel that way too, but I was wondering if anyone else counts rivets sometimes and uses no reference what-so-ever at other times. Or are you just of one style only. I just build for fun most of the time, but I can also get down right picky as heck during other builds, I decided on the term "bi-riveted" to call myself. I count them when I want too, but on the builds that I don't, I frankly don't give a hoot if there was supposed to be a bump where the kit was molded smooth.

Thank you, paulnchamp !

I add detail with resin & PE only to make the model appear more realistic. I feel that there is a difference between realism & accuracy. You can measure, for example, the angle of dihedral on a wing & apply it to a model. The same angle will appear more radical on a 1/72 model than on a 1/32 model. Both will be "accurate," but which appears "realistic"?

I detail until the point where it no longer becomes fun, and I build models to have fun. I have seen, on other sites, "rivet counters" that behave like "fault finders." In most cases, I perceive it to be an insecure person's smug satisfaction in "knowing more," which makes his own models "better" by calling another's "worse." I wish to have nothing to do with these self-appointed "Accuracy Police." Its just the way I feel about it.

I won't take the fun out of building my models, and I won't allow anyone else the power to take the fun out of it for me, either.

I'm no rivet counter. I build mostly OOTB these days and don't worry that much if a panel is scribed .010" too far aft! That doesn't mean that I don't research and try to build a model that captures the appearance of the real aircraft. I'll use resin cockpit interiors for more realism in a kit that is sparse or really inaccurate but I try to avoid photoetch as it drives me nuts. I worry more about the proper color schemes and markings on my models than whether the wigspan is off by a 1/32". I figure I can sand that much error into a model. If you read the British Model Mags, you will find every reviewer bemoaning minor inaccuracies in a kit, then shows pictures of his finished model that sometimes looks like it was brush painted with a broom. Some of the guys I know from IPMS spend so much time on research that they never actually build a model. But they will quickly point out dicrepancies on your models. Too each his own, but I just like to have fun with the Hobby.

I know what you mean about the British mag. I have a copy of an issue of "Scale Aviation Modeler International" that features a Spitfire, in Israeli markings, with SILVERED DECALS ! And its on the cover. I have yet to see any pics posted on the FSM site that have such poor quality control. That's the only Brit mag I've seen, and the quality of the builds rarely approaches FSM mag. Maybe one or two an issue appears to be built with anyone who has more than "novice" skills.

For me I don't consider my self to have the skills to have every little detail exactly like the 1:1. As long as with every completed build that I turn out is better in some way than the previous, I am more than happy. And besides, the majority of the people that see what I build would not know the difference between a coupla and a road wheel and are just amazed at how a bunch of pieces of plastic can actually look great in the end since they may have built a model when they were a kid but have not since. It makes me feel better seeing someone's eye that is not in the hobby bug out when looking at one of models than it would satisfying a rivet counter that was looking it over. Just my .

A lot of very interesting viewpoints on this subject, and I see a bit of my own in many of them.

I have done a bit of scratchbuilding with very little references at the time, but was happy with the result. Now I have heaps of photos, and there is a mass produced kit of the subject. I am a bit disappointed in some respects, because I don't really feel my model captures the essence of the subject in many ways, but on the other hand, I learnt an awful lot of techniques and gained a lot of experience building it.

I really just like to have a finely detailed model that looks right, and to have learnt a bit about the subject in the process. I got into modelling through a love of history, and they perpetuate each other nicely. To "rivet count" though, would require far too much extra time and money, of which I have neither!

I do love reading about such projects in mags, etc. although.

It has to be fun and relaxing, otherwise it is just another stress in your life.

And, like Pix, I have no time for anybody who puts down another persons work for selfish reasons.

QUOTE: Originally posted by rjkplasticmod ...then shows pictures of his finished model that sometimes looks like it was brush painted with a broom.

There are plenty of Revell Germany kit boxes with photo's of those kind of finishes on the sides. Probably to hide the inaccuracies..

I'm not a rivet counter. I like to build stuff that make other people go 'Wow'.. Usually I'm the only one who knows whats on the real thing anyway, so I don't have to worry about other people thinking its not realistic enough..

Besides, its just a hobby. Hobbies are ment to be enjoyed. Use some creative license..

There's an old saying in the aviation world: If it looks right, it flies right. I reckon that applies to modelling as well.

As seems to be the general consensus here, I say if you wanna count rivets, count 'em, and if ya don't, don't.
I suppose the "contest modelers" might need to be a bit more concerned with counting.
In the end, it's all up to the individual.

I like to build models as accurately as I can, spending a considerable amount of time on research, using resin and PE parts to correct and enhance a kit, but I don't consider myself to be a rivet counter by any means.
I have a veeeery low "close enough!" threshold!

QUOTE: Originally posted by Pixilater Iwith SILVERED DECALS ! And its on the cover..

Want silvered decals...look no further than the MRC/Academy add on the back of the February FSM. The markings below the crew would immediately put it on the back of any contest I've been to and the star on hte M36 isn;t a whole lotr better!

Anyway, as to "rivet counting"...depends if I'm challenging myself to super detail something or if I'm just having a bit of fun.

I fall into the "bi" camp. It depends what I am building and who it is for. The corvette I am working on now is for my father-in-law and so as much detail as possible will be included. Other models, it doesn't matter so much.

Another factor is my research; do I have enough details to add the rivets or not? If not, then that type of detail usually gets left off.

At the end of the day, if I am happy then it was a good build.
Bruce

Now this is why I mostly do sci-fi kits! No, wait a minute, I've seen people critique with "rivet counter" intensity over things that don't even exist in reality

Seriously, though, I usually try to make the most of my kits, whether the subject is fictional or factual, so long as it's still fun. Like many modelers, however, the definition of "fun" includes the occasional fit of frustration ( didja see the Hulk in GSM 2004's Gallery? ).

My basic rule is this: It doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to be good enough for me not to be embarrassed to have my name on the card next to the display. Even if I'm doing a mix of real and imagined, like a 1:72 Messerschmit 262 with Red Baron-style markings, I won't accept silvering of the decals or an unsanded seam, but I'm also not about to get photoetched parts for the dials or interior!

I kinda like it when the "Pro's" have a few flaws in there models....even when they're in mags and box work.....it just shows that they are human!!! I remember when I first picked up FSM last year, and was scared to death of how perfect the models all were!!!! Then the next issue, I noticed that an A/C's panel lines weren't perfect...it was kind of a shock seeing it, but I breathed a large sigh of relief....and thought whew....I CAN do this!!!!!

I don't count rivets. I am still learning the tricks of the hobby and don't really look much into accuracy issues at this time. I build out of the box and my main priorities as of the moment are:

1.) Complete the model.
2.) Learn from the build.
3.) Enjoy the build and the completed model.

I am not into contests right now. I may possibly join in the future when I feel my skills are already upto the task but until then...I think I'd rather not count rivets.

I don't have the skills to be a rivet counter. I build for fun and to create a "reasonable facsimilie"(sp?) of the original (although I can't seem to say "ENOUGH!" with this Panther, put down the bloody Aber PE and paint it already!).

To count or not to count, this mainly depends on what your goals are in modelling, some people are very happy to count rivets for a fully accurate model, other are happy with a model that looks like the subject they are modelling.

The main thing to bear in mind in this area that you should enjoy your modelling regardless of rivets. I have seen many modellers loose their enjoyment of the hobby because they could not get those rivets right.

Count me a rivet counter. I count them on the real thing when I take notes. I'm also known as Psycho in my social group... but I digress (what is gress anyway..). As long as it makes me happy I'll do it so I build to the point any further detailing would make me unhappy.

Hmmm...to be honest, if there're only like five or six rivets, I'll go ahead and count 'em.
More than twenty or so, forget it.

I guess that's my general guideline for counting rivets!

It's hard to be a rivet counter when I build 17th to 19th century ships. Thats why I like them so much. It gives me a chance to express the artist in me. Unless someone pays me to make an authenic Cutty Sark. I will paint mine saphire blue and teal green. Then again, I sell a lot more purple, red, and green Cutty Sarks than I do black. I learned that when I started to build for commission, that the general public doesn't care about authenticity, but what is pleasing to their eye.

However, I also love to get into a scale project and do the research, then see how close to authenic I can get, then again, I burned out doing that once, so I try not to get to picky about details.

Scott

QUOTE: Originally posted by scottrc It's hard to be a rivet counter when I build 17th to 19th century ships.

Would you not be a treenail counter ???

QUOTE: Originally posted by J-Hulk Hmmm...to be honest, if there're only like five or six rivets, I'll go ahead and count 'em. More than twenty or so, forget it.

Yeah, if I have to take my shoes off to get past ten ....

I only build OOB, and don't really concern myeslf with accuracy issues. Yes, I'll try to make sure that the kit I'm building was used by a particular country's military, or was used in a particular Theater of War. I won't for instance make an Israeli M-1 Abrams or a German F-15 Eagle or something like that. I want to be sure that something was made/used by the country in question first. Also, when it comes to type, I want to be sure it was around and/or used in the time frame I want to model it. That's about the extent of my accuracy concerns.

The only time I research something is when I want to get an idea how to paint it or what kind of decals I would need. What pattern was used, what markings did it have on it, etc. Otherwise, I don't quibble over whether the 'dust cover of the second exhaust grille was mounted outside or inside the hull' or anything like that.

QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz QUOTE: Originally posted by scottrc It's hard to be a rivet counter when I build 17th to 19th century ships. Would you not be a treenail counter ???

OOOHHH! Good one. I guess we would have to be, since all our aftermarket stuff comes in pairs or small groups, we have to know how many nails, pikes, blocks, and sheaths we need to order. Don't even mention if we want to build scale cannons, since the wheels, barrels, pins, and carriages are sometimes sold separate as well. Did I forget to mention door hinges? Say 101(x2) plus for the HMS Victory? How about scale door knobs? Sand buckets, and cannon balls all to scale?

I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it.

Scott

I try to build as accurate as I can, with the references I have on hand. Sometime I go beyond the norm and build what I want to. I have two F-8E's, one Monogram and one Hasagawa as well as one Hasagawa F-8J. I am going to finish them as VF-111 "Sundowners", even though I can't find any reference pictures if them flying the "E" and "J" models, only "D" and "H" models. I know they flew them, so they may not be 100% accurate, but I don't care. At times you have to build what you like and don't worry about how others may react or think.

Most of my Kits tend to be OOB, but at times I do splash out on AM kits and parts.

If I modify a Kit I often do it without AM parts by chopping/sanding existing parts or adding bits from the spares box.
Some of the most common mods are:
Replacing hand rails with ones made from wire
Adding new wires and hydraulic tubes, etc.