Contest Models

and you just illustrated my point as to why a judge might not know the details of a model very well for a category they are judging

if I build USN, and build a Jet, and a Prop fighter, and a double engined aircraft,,,,,,I pretty much wouldn't be able to judge an aircraft category in my own modeling scale,,,,,and 1/48 scale modelers that would judge my 1/72 scale models would Not know a lot about what 1/72 scale kits had what build difficulty or simplicity,,,,,,,because they wouldn't build one, just as I wouldn't know how easy or difficult the 1/48 Naval Jet Whatsit Kit from Anyone would be.

and nope,,,,,,,the glossiness or mattness is not just an accuracy issue,,,,,,it is a perception issue that many modelers have,,,,,,,,,,inaccurate is better in this case, if the judges don't know the difference in the time periods

but, you are the guy that types "Black" every time I say "White" (something about I have no credibility because you can't find my models online?,,,,,that is not the exact quote, but, it is the gist of your post)

TarnShip

We all know that if we have a model entered in the contest that we can't judge that category. But, what that is going to really mean is that if you build an aircraft model, it is very likely going to be judged by an armour, ship, or car modeler. Simple logic, since I build USN aircraft, I might have a jet, a prop fighter, and a twin engine fighter in the contest, which means I would end up tapped to judge tanks or cars or ships.

That's true as far as it goes, but, I often have one or two armor kits in a contest, lately modern wheeled stuff in 1/35. That leaves me free to judge WWII, modern tracked, small scale, conversions and artillery while recusing myself from the the categories I'm in. While I'm currently building armor and painting figures, I have also competed successfully with cars and aircraft. And I'm pretty typical opf the contest going public 

That means that you should concentrate on your actual modeling skills,

Very true

not the "easy" or "hard" kit, the judges that know that are over in another category, not the nth degree of accuracy, I can name ten aircraft that I want to build for my shelves that the judges would "pick on" for being "wrong", and the models would be 100% "wrong" if built to exactly match the photo

When competing with an unusual; variant, paint scheme, load out, something off the proverbial beaten path, it's always good to provide documentation (AMPS give extra credit for this and they are primarily armor guys judging armor).In IMPS land, "Absolute accuracy is a noble, but probably unattainable, goal."

So, if you really want a shot at it, build an Aircraft that the Ship, Tank, and Car guys will recognize,,,,,,and Judge it yourself, at home,,,,,look for everything that can be done Wrong on it, and make sure you didn't do any of those things,,,,,,,,,and look in the logical order of the cuts at the show,,,,are your landing gear straight?, is there a thumbprint in the paint, orange peel in the paint, a seamline along the top of the model, wings and tail at proper angles, fog in the canopy, did you hand paint a canopy on an airbrushed model (uniform level of finish and detail is one of the judging criteria), do you have a resin set of landing gear bays, a resin insert for the gun bay, but, blobby nasty kit bombs hanging on the pylons (uniform level, again)

Again, very true.

and always keep in mind that you are building an aircraft for a tank guy to judge, so, even though the USN used gloss overall colors in the seventies,,,,,,,give it a semi-gloss overcoat so that the judges won't think it is "too glaring in the lights"

Again, an accuracy issue which should not enter into consideration except as a tie breaker.

In a nutshell, build what you like to the best of your abilities, enter it to compete, get feedback on your work, talk to other modelers that you see whose tecniques you would like to adopt, and incorporate all into your next build. It's not an overnight process, but slowly building and improving upon your skill sets.

There are a lot of helpful posts with good tips for you.

But, one thing that happens that is not mentioned is something that you can think about before you go to the contest.

We all know that if we have a model entered in the contest that we can't judge that category. But, what that is going to really mean is that if you build an aircraft model, it is very likely going to be judged by an armour, ship, or car modeler. Simple logic, since I build USN aircraft, I might have a jet, a prop fighter, and a twin engine fighter in the contest, which means I would end up tapped to judge tanks or cars or ships.

That means that you should concentrate on your actual modeling skills, not the "easy" or "hard" kit, the judges that know that are over in another category, not the nth degree of accuracy, I can name ten aircraft that I want to build for my shelves that the judges would "pick on" for being "wrong", and the models would be 100% "wrong" if built to exactly match the photo

So, if you really want a shot at it, build an Aircraft that the Ship, Tank, and Car guys will recognize,,,,,,and Judge it yourself, at home,,,,,look for everything that can be done Wrong on it, and make sure you didn't do any of those things,,,,,,,,,and look in the logical order of the cuts at the show,,,,are your landing gear straight?, is there a thumbprint in the paint, orange peel in the paint, a seamline along the top of the model, wings and tail at proper angles, fog in the canopy, did you hand paint a canopy on an airbrushed model (uniform level of finish and detail is one of the judging criteria), do you have a resin set of landing gear bays, a resin insert for the gun bay, but, blobby nasty kit bombs hanging on the pylons (uniform level, again)

and always keep in mind that you are building an aircraft for a tank guy to judge, so, even though the USN used gloss overall colors in the seventies,,,,,,,give it a semi-gloss overcoat so that the judges won't think it is "too glaring in the lights"

just some things to think about, from a guy that won't ever be judging a Naval aircraft at a contest

and remember to have fun,,,,,,,and learn what all you can from your first few times, then you will know more for your next time

Rex

The only case where degree of difficulty enters is when there are two or more completely equal models vying for one award. That is exceptionally rare.  Both are judged, as DonStauffer referenced above, on basics.

A 40 year  old poorly dimensioned simple Tamiya Stuart even with its misplaced track connectors that has no assembly/paint/decal flaws built out of box (buttoned up, however)  will win over the highest quality modern Meng or the fully accurized and PE'd M1 with a full interior and engine compartment if it has been built better.

Pat9

Thanks guys. The one thing I don't see addressed is whether you get more or less "credit" for producing a great model from a great kit vs great model from a bad kit. The latter requires more skill than the former. Thoughts?

I've never judged but if I was judging and all things were equal I'd give the award to the tougher kit.  If somebody builds a flawless Tamiya F-16 and another person builds a flawless Monogram F-8 than the award goes to the F-8 in my book.

Now the problem here is that you have to know alot about alot of different kits.  Not everybody is familiar with every brand of model so this would be a tough call in most cases.

I don't think it's the kit that matters - it's the finished product. Although, as has been said earlier in this thread, it's up to the folks doing the judging.........

Thanks guys. The one thing I don't see addressed is whether you get more or less "credit" for producing a great model from a great kit vs great model from a bad kit. The latter requires more skill than the former. Thoughts?

Pat,

I think above all else, before you walk through those model contest doors, the absolute first thing you must repeat over an dover and over again is that you are there to have fun!!!!  Do NOT go in there with the intent of walking out with a prize or medal or ribbon or whatever.  The moment you have that mindset, that's when you ruin the whole experience for yourself.  Ask me how I know.  LOL!

I've been to contests before and that was the mentality I had.  It left me feeling disapointed especially when the B-58 filled with visible seams, silvered decals, scratches and a wavy hand-painted canopy framing beat my plane and several others that were on the table.  In spite of all the judging rules and regulations, the judges themselves are still human beings and therefore subject to flaws,and biases.  The 1/48 B-58 was the largest craft on the table and I think that's what tipped the scales in its favor.

What I do now is I go into contests not to win something, but to learn a bunch of new techniques, seek out inspiriation and, best of all, shop like a kid in a candy store with all the vendors there.  In fact, you should BE that kid in the candy store!  That's the best kind of mindset you can have when you go into those contests.  Be wide-eyed and soak it all in.  I think you'll find that you'll get so much more out of the experience if you do that.

One last thing:  You'll hear a lot of people here and at contests say that the model they thought for sure was going to take the gold ended up coming home with nothing while the model they didn't think would stand a chance was the one that came home with an award.  You just never know what's going to happen.

Eric

Models that have poorly finished seams, die sink and ejection pin marks, and poor paint are rejected fairly early in the judging.  Beyond that, it may depend on the specific judges.  Major meets- the nats and regionals- usually see better judging than many local models.

Weathering can be a mixed bag.  There are genre of models, and regions of the country where weathering is not as popular as others.  However, a glossy finish on a military model, or a flat finish on a street automobile, may get some gigs.

Cadet Chuck

I think really good, realistic weathering is very necessary to have a winner.

I agree with you 200%. Realistic weathering adds more to the element  of realism but...........speaking from past experience I have seen at certain shows that none of the weathered AFV won but rather the factory fresh ones.Comes down to who is doing the judging.

Okay, most (though not all) IPMS style contests are done on 1-2-3 standards. That means no matter how good or bad the entries are in each class, there will be 3 awards given out. Therefore, perfection in build is an ideal but not necessarily a reality to take home an award.

Now, what judges are looking for is as complete a package as possible. Someone's paint might be perfect, but the decal work is poor. The next might have addressed every seam line but the model is not well aligned. As judges, we don't look for a specific item but for the model with the least number of flaws. And since we don't do tie, and we have to give out the three awards promised, we need criteria to rate models as best, second best and third best in that class on that day.

Weathering is a tie breaker, it is not a major consideration. Well done it might help. Poorly done, it can eliminate you from the podium. A friend of mine routinely takes firsts in 1/72 aircraft and he builds with no weathering.

From the IPMS Competition Handbook:

""Weathering" is inherently neither good nor bad. When comparing a model with a weathered finish to a model with a pristine finish, the judges will concern themselves with the degree of success achieved by each builder in depicting the intended finish. An exception is in the diorama categories where appropriate weathering may be necessary to render appropriate realism."

To know what judges look for, read The Competition Handbook here: www.ipmsusa.org/.../memberservices.htm

But even better, when you go to a show, volunteer to judge. You needn't be an expert on the subject (at times that may be detrimental) or an expert builder. Just bring a good set of eyes and objectivity.

I think really good, realistic weathering is very necessary to have a winner.

The choice is up to you and what you are comfortable with. If you are neat when building and painting, then get whatever model you personally like to build. I took a WWI plane to a show that was, in my opinion, just so-so. I brought it just for something to bring as that was all I had finished at the time. I didn't have any of the wing rigging on. To me, that wasn't a perfect build. Well, it took a third place medal. The guys in the club just stared when I came walking back with the medal. Their models were "perfect" in my opinion and they won a couple but some got nothing. I think it all depends on what the judges like. One day they might be looking for great paint, another day they might be looking for details and on other days they want to see the entire package.

Make the model of your choice to the best of your ability and take it to the shows. You might surprise yourself. Remember, we are our own worst critics. Enjoy the hobby. Good luck. 

Jim