Modelling in 2020 : Pre-orders and Chinese crap?

It's all in how much time you want to invest in building a model. I, myself, love to build models that already come with lots of detail, as I don't have a lot of time for modeling, but I like lots of detail, so I tend to build Tamiya kits, or Hasegawa, some Eduard, etc, etc. But that's just me. I know others who like to buy the cheap, older kits (Monogram, Revell, etc), and scratch-build their own details to go in them. Whatever you want and like to build is out there for you to choose from; if you don't like what you're seeing, don't buy it. The stuff you want will be there for many, many years to come. I don't think the stuff that you mentioned in the first part of your post is going to take over any of the other stuff at all, and that stuff has been out there for decades. 

Gary Mason

No offense meant, but do you need a new hobby? I don't really understand all of the dissatisfaction. Seems to me we have more and better choices than ever, and I look forward to several new releases in 2020. Just sayin'...

happy modelling!

^^^^^ this.  I took 4 or 5 years off and when I came back ( 2015 or so ) there were so many new manufacturers and kits and details and paints.  We live in a great time for modeling!

The last few kits I've built of Chinese origin have been very good.  So don't understand the complaints.  I've done several of the Trumpeter kits, for example.

Can’t say I’ve had the same observations. Like keavdog I took a few years break from the hobby at was surprised at the amount of new stuff available. 

In no particular order:

Chinese cr#p is not in my lexicon, as I identify subjects first, cost second and kit reviews third. I've been a modeler for going on 55 years, and could list the companies that I've never bought a bad kit from on one hand.

Wing Nut Wings comes to mind, but I have only built one of their kits and $ 100 biplanes are not interesting to me.

The internet is IMO the single biggest advantage to come along in this hobby in quite a while.

You can decide what level of kit you want to buy.

3D- all good as far as I am concerned. 

I can now communicate directly with custom decal people.

I can go to any auction site.

I sense an underlying view from a tool and die guy or another precision approach to creating 3D. I don't have anywhere near the expertise to suggest alternatives, but when I see for example Trumpeter (Chinese Cra#p) selling both WW2 and Vietnam era Iowa class battleships; imagine what the saves the modeler in time researching the surcery involved in getting to one or the other on account of the era of the original kit.

What will 2020 bring? The cost of the Chinese kits will probably go up 25% due to the economic wisdom of our government. Other than that I have no idea.

I understand that things are progressing and that it's very different from when we were kids and fell in love with model making. That said it has never been better for quality, selection, sourcing, and something for every price and ability. Progress isn't a bad thing. If you want to go to a local model shop and buy a revell or aurora kit, those days are gone. Try to appreciate what you have now or maybe you have grown away from modelling and are using all this as justification.

Agree with all the posts since my last - the one thing I think may be problematic, and off topic to a point, is the price of models.  I don't know how much cash a 14 or 15 year old kid has but kits today are so much more expensive.  I would mow a lawn for $2.00 and go buy a model.  Can kids today do the same?  I think the recent Airfix kits are hands down the best quality for the $$ (having built all of 1, but read a lot).  And subject matter preferences come into play.  Sorry for the tangent OP

keavdog

Agree with all the posts since my last - the one thing I think may be problematic, and off topic to a point, is the price of models.  I don't know how much cash a 14 or 15 year old kid has but kits today are so much more expensive.  I would mow a lawn for $2.00 and go buy a model.  Can kids today do the same?  I think the recent Airfix kits are hands down the best quality for the $$ (having built all of 1, but read a lot).  And subject matter preferences come into play.  Sorry for the tangent OP

 

Just a couple of things,14-15 year olds have cash for sure,but it doesn't come from mowing lawns anymore,when was the last time you seen a teen mowing a lawn,cash comes from parents,but it goes to $1000.00 I-Phones,$125.00 sneakers,and $100.00 video games.

Sure,you see some kids at the shows,and some of us display our kids work here,but modeling isnt real big with them today.The industry is in good shape,great new products and kits abound,but its us doing the buying.Look at our Intro forum,mostly 30 and above returning or picking up after settling with life or family

keavdog

Agree with all the posts since my last - the one thing I think may be problematic, and off topic to a point, is the price of models.  I don't know how much cash a 14 or 15 year old kid has but kits today are so much more expensive.  I would mow a lawn for $2.00 and go buy a model.  Can kids today do the same?  I think the recent Airfix kits are hands down the best quality for the $$ (having built all of 1, but read a lot).  And subject matter preferences come into play.  Sorry for the tangent OP

 

With how expensive video games are nowadays I wouldn’t say cost is a factor for kids. A base game runs $60 and usually there’s extra content and items that can make it add up to over $100. Think attention span and lack of interest come into play. The hobby is doing fine in other areas such as Gundam. It’s very popular with my age rage around thirty. 

Tojo72

 

 

Just a couple of things,14-15 year olds have cash for sure,but it doesn't come from mowing lawns anymore,when was the last time you seen a teen mowing a lawn,cash comes from parents,but it goes to $1000.00 I-Phones,$125.00 sneakers,and $100.00 video games.

Sure,you see some kids at the shows,and some of us display our kids work here,but modeling isnt real big with them today.The industry is in good shape,great new products and kits abound,but its us doing the buying.Look at our Intro forum,mostly 30 and above returning or picking up after settling with life or family

 

I couldn't help but relate to this more. At 34 and returning to the hobby after 20 years, have a family and just wanting some me time, and I always enjoyed the creative outlet. 

The youth culture has substantially changed now and kids we take on as apprentices have little interest in, well anything that may represent a challenge. Thats not all youths but again seems a current trend. 

The O.P makes some good points though. Coming back to the hobby Im finding the substantial amount of products mind blowing. Now its a new challenge to learn about them! And yeah I see the point on detail. I like detail, Im not a rivet counter so can over look minor discrepancies but still, detail is good. It can however leave those of us time poor taking very long amounts of time to finish things however. Ive got a Finemoulds Millennium Falcon here, topping in at what, 900 odd pieces? Ive played with a few aspects of it but ultimately its shelved until I can really get my head into it. I look foward to that day however. Oh to be 14 again with all the time you had and never appreciated.

Josh

This is a golden age for modeling.  When I start all kits were wood, and the only third party products were glue and model paint.  Then plastics came along, but still glue and paint were the only third party stuff. 

Now, we have options for photo-etch and resin aftermarket (and now 3D printed stuff), third party decals, and even the kits themselves have fine detail previously available only in resin.

For a long time airplanes came with no cockpit detail, and only rudimentary engines.  Many had no landing gear (they came with a display stand).  And there were only about a half dozen mfgs.

Yep, we are enjoying a golden age!

Interesting discussion.

I don't know about cheap chinese junk. Takom, meng are chinese. And most companies produce stuff in China to keep costs down. But the detail is maybe a problem. Since companies can now mold very fine detail. 5 parts to make one, maybe on some companies, but tamiya is the go to for easier detail. Takom,miniart, ect make their money on the detail, modelers want detail. That seems the trend the last few years. Since companies can now mold very fine detail. Aircraft is maybe headed that way. There will always be garbage out there, just igore it and you'll be fine.

Sorry if I am rambeling on :) Jst my thoughts.

Hi;

     First and foremost,how many models have you completed in all these years/ have you noticed that as you buy say,the P-521 Mustang ,in any scale , This? Each one is comparablely better in detail and parts than before.

    True, Like Don,I started when Wood and Dollhouse brads made for useable parts. Yup. 8 submarines out of an eight foot 2-1/2 " dowel of oak. Now it's plastic.I can no longer add the details I used to. 

    Manufacturers? Well I wouldn't call Meng or Trumpeter Crap ! I think they are worth the money.Now,that stated,I have gotten as much enjoyment building Lindberg's Bismark as Trumpeters. Why well the Lindy had less detail,kinda like a representational version versus a full detail Trumpeter Museum detailed version.

     I will take all my Budget allows.Sure prices have gotten astronimical for someone on a budget.Reesin,3-D printed and P.E parts aren't cheap either.But they open doors we never had back then . So , I live with this awesome selection and am grateful to have seen the hobby advance as it has.

I agree with Don Staufer. This a golden age. Not quite old enough for my first kit to be wood, but my dad still had some, and I tried one once. This wasn't a balsa and tissue affair; it was blocks of wood you had to carve, shave and sand until they fit the templates for each correct shape. Just couldn't do it. The wooden Wardie-Jay circus kits were much easier, and I still like building those. Hard to find now, but back in the day they were cheap enough I was able to acquire a decent stash - although at that time nobody would have called it a stash. It was a "collection". 

The Hubley metal car kits were also rather difficult, all covered with flash, and much of it sharp enough to cut your fingers.

There's no denying the plastic kits saved the hobby. Easier to build and the finished model usually looked better. Shapes were more accurate than the hand carved ones, and things such as doors, hoods and trunks tended to fit better. Gaps weren't so wide, and everything tended to be less crooked once installed. Plus, as bad as the old plastic kits seem compared to the ones today, they still had a lot more of the little details molded onto the parts than the wood and metal kits could produce.

As to the cost, it seems to me a lot of it could be attributed to the amount of plastic in the box, both before and after the kit is built. The old Revell and Monogram fighter kits normally had the big parts without any sprues around them, and only 2 or 3 sprues for the little parts. In contrast, the Hasagawa P-47 kit in 1/48 scale has 7 or 8 sprues in it, and, after the kit is built, there's enough plastic left over to make the Monogram P-47 in the same scale. Geez, there might even be enough to make 2. Too bad we can't recycle the extra plastic back to the company for a discount on the next kit.

Robotism

The last few days I've been browsing around trying to find some ways to increase the stash. I've noticed for a while but it really hit me today just how much of the industry has become "Pay us now, maybe you will get it tomorrow?" in the form of kickstarters. Now entire companies are set up to just rotated kickstart projects over and over. Once one ends another is began to add to the two already in motion. I see something I like the look of in the news and it's 2 years away from release, if they keep to schedule.

My other issue is I'm seeing a lot of low quality plastic. Plastic that's very difficult to cut or sand, holds detail badly and is floppier than spagetti. It's the worst possible option in every way except it is exceptionally cheap and that's all people care about. They're ordering entire crates of these things and like the kickstarters mentioned above they buy them a year or two in advance, when most the models won't even be wanted or ever used. They're becoming so successful I can see us moving more and more towards lower quality products at much cheaper costs and then you're left with nothing to really worth with as a model.

I've also noticed model companies expanding into what I would call trinkets. Thinks like funko pops where they take the same generic vinyl shape, put a decal to represent a characters face and then charge 10-15 bucks for it. They're not even action figures which required custom sculpts, they're just objects with different decals and maybe a pair of ears attached. These things are so popular they now dominate comic conventions, video game shops and the places we used to find more nerdy things.

I'm going to lean in the other direction with this complaint. Models are becoming too complex for the sake of complexity. Everyone is going to have their own idea of the perfect amount of detail, there's always room for single link tracks or rubber tracks. I've noticed we've got into a weird era where instead of single link tracks we're closer to having individual rivets you attach onto each track link. Models are starting to become over engineered where everything is so covered with detail you end up with no where to really guide the eye. When we had to hand build prototypes and make molds from them the act of creating the model limited this, you couldn't put individual screw heads sticking out of bolts. Thanks to 3D modeling and mold making you can do exactly that. You can zoom in and get that perfect screw thread just sticking out of the bolt. It's getting to the point where I look at a model and ask myself how much time I'm willing to put into painting it and those over detailed kits become less appealing. Parts being broken down into smaller and smaller sizes until what works perfectly fine as a single piece if now 5 pieces which makes alignment a nightmare. If I wanted to get really picky I could even complain how indents aren't what they used to be. The tools used make holes too perfect and too shallow which lead to a sense of fakeness where the same detail years previous would look imperfect but real because of it.

Maybe I'm just getting old and I want the kids to get off my lawn. But I thought these were things worth talking about. I look at the way the various model subgenres are going and I struggle to find any of them appealing. I know there's many gents here much older than myself who have seen large industry changes before. How do you think kickstarter, 3D modelling and cheap Chinese production is influencing the industry? What do you think 2020 will bring us?

It might help if you provided some examples to support your premise.  I agree with generalizing, as long the generalization describes most of whatever it is we're talking about.

For example, you mention "seeing a lot of low-quality plastic".  Whose kit or kits do you mean?  I've built Zvezda's reissue of the old Frog Tempest, for example, and that was in a softer plastic than any Tamiya or Hasegawa kit I've ever built.  Same goes for a 1/72 Studebaker truck by an obscure Russian maker, named something like "Commodore" or something similar.  That plastic reminded me of something the EPA might have banned in the 70s.  But those are just two examples out of thousands of kits, from hundreds of makers.  So I can't generalize and say that they are typical of what's available.

So, I can't say you're wrong, but I can't say you're right, either.

Robotism, Sorry to hear you've run into that problem. If there are kit makers out there producing inferior plastic products, I'd appreciate it if you would post names so I can avoid those. My epxerience has been much different since getting back into modeling after more than 40 years. The number of kits available and the subjects is amazing, and all the available finishing products blow my mind. I've bought kits from only a dozen or so makers, but haven't experienced what you described. I agree that the plastic is softer today, and some kits are softer plastic than others. I think it has to be that way so it can react to the kind of glue we can use, but that's not a problem with the kit makers. That's a result of government overreach. The same goes for the difference in the quality of paint. Government interference is to blame for the fact that we can't get enamels like we used to. But, even so, I haven't encountered flimsy plastic, and the paints that are still available work well enough once I learned how to use them. I have found myself checking ahead of time on the number of parts there are in a kit because I really don't want to spend a bunch of time gluing on little pieces that could have been molded on in the first place with no real effect on the appearance of the finished model. There are plenty of kits around that don't do that. I have more in my stash now than I can build in my lifetime, and there are lots more out there I'd like to get that meet my parts-count level of tolerance. Just look up parts count, stay with main-stream brands, like Tamiya, and I think you'll have plenty of subjects you'll enjoy building. I hope you can find an enjoyable level. It truly is a great time to be making scale models. Barrett

I see you are new here, welcome!

Like Don and others have expressed, we are in the golden age of modeling. You can get the old classics, as well as brand new tooled kits for very reasonable prices. Even the 1/144 kits are amazing. There is truley something for everyone on any budget. 

I'm not saying there aren't some bad kits out there. I've seen some pirated kits on the web, I'm sure the quality is about as high as their seller's ethical standards. 

Do a little homework, have fun!

In the miniature area of things the plastic is now what they called "restic", it's very cheap and hard to work with. It's solid enough to make models with and I see it creeping into other areas the commentors are more focusing on. There's an article here on working with it for people who aren't familar. It's not hit the armour and plane side of things yet, but it's made a huge impact on miniatures. I've also noticed Bandai's plastic isn't cleaning up quite as nicely as it used to.

I can see why some people would think we're in a golden age depending on what neck of the woods you're in. If you're the type who enjoys all the added extras then you can get them in spades. And it's a whole lot easier than turning a broom handle into a model kit without a doubt.

I probably never build anything like that.

We truly are in a golden age of modeling. As a returning modeler myself, it was very easy for me to pick a subject, do some research and build the kit to a level i like.  

As for the "cheap" kits...I just finished the Revell 1/48th Scale B25.....it is a older kit but it built great!  I have built kits from Hobby Boss (Korean I think), Italari (Those are junk and i will never build another one) Revell, Airfix and now Academy.  All good kits save the Italari.  The selection is out there and it is buyer beware as to what is good to buy and what is not.  Forums like this and Youtube are INVALUABLE to new modelers such as myself. 

As for the increase in detail.....this is user based.  We as the end user of the product have ASKED for more deatails in the kits.  It may cost a bit more but we did ask for it.  

I have to agree with one other posting in this thread...Maybe it is time for you to step back, maybe try another hobby for awhile.  Sounds like you have classic burnout.  

Robotism

In the miniature area of things the plastic is now what they called "restic", it's very cheap and hard to work with. It's solid enough to make models with and I see it creeping into other areas the commentors are more focusing on. There's an article here on working with it for people who aren't familar. It's not hit the armour and plane side of things yet, but it's made a huge impact on miniatures. I've also noticed Bandai's plastic isn't cleaning up quite as nicely as it used to.

I can see why some people would think we're in a golden age depending on what neck of the woods you're in. If you're the type who enjoys all the added extras then you can get them in spades. And it's a whole lot easier than turning a broom handle into a model kit without a doubt.

Still not really sure whose and which kits you're talking about.

As far as Bandai goes, they're selling a lot of "Star Wars" kits, so somebody likes them.

Since you bring up a Japanese manufacturer, and since your avatar looks similar to a Maschinen Krieger subject, I'll add that I build Nitto and Wave MaK kits.  Their kits are of very good quality, and in the case of the Wave kits, they're well-engineered to ensure a better finished model.

I still have to say I can't agree or disagree. but I do agree with the others who point out that we are in a great time to be a scale modeler, from the standpoint of variety and quality of kits available to us.

Robotism

 I've also noticed Bandai's plastic isn't cleaning up quite as nicely as it used to.

 

 

Curious to know what Bandai kits those are? My spouse enjoys building Gundam kits from time to time and she hasn’t brought up anything about the plastic quality going down. 

After roughly 30 years of watching Dragon and a few other companies announce kit after kit of coming soon subjects that I want and end up never seeing the light of day, I have little faith in ”upcoming releases”, and zero faith in pre orders. There is nothing out there that I have to have that bad, that quickly.

Plastic quality- the differing styrenes used by various companies tend to have their own quirks. But generally, you tend to get what you pay for in that basic sense. 

Company quality- some companies cut corners when they entered the market, and upped their game as the became established. Trumpeter and Academy are two that come to mind. Others have gone with general trends and improved as time and technology passed and improved. And it really doesn’t matter where they come from, Asia, or EUrope. Seeing how nowadays, there are no real mainstream US based companies left, only a few small ones still exist, some re issuing old kits and resurrecting the long past brand labels.

But yes, we do live in a time where we now have access to more choices in this hobby than ever before. Our complaints about any of it are truly “first world problems”. 

Greysnake.

The Grimiore black feels slightly tacky, it's hard to explain but I've noticed some colours on newer bandai kits are reacting to something. It's almost rubbery.

Bandai is now using a styrene with rubber bonded at the molecular level, to try to eliminate polycaps.  Their Re100 MG Zaku Kai is the first kit to fully exploit the material. Now if you believe the press release fine, but I am a skeptic.  The chemical acronym escapes me at the moment, but I did look it up on an industrial plastics website to read up on the material.

I am wondering if your Grimore is made of the same blend of plastic.  The Zaku plastic feels more flexy and seems waxy looking.

Possibly. Waxy would be a good way to describe it. When you sand the material it feels gummy almost. I tried pushing my finger nail into it and I can leave a very small indent in the darker areas but the yellow areas I can't do a thing to.

Thanks for providing the link to the article about cleaning up restic.  That looks to be a wargame-type figure.  It reminds me of years of working with Airfix figures that wouldn't cut cleanly, and had paint adherance problems.  And that goes back to 1964 or so - nothing new there.  I do not believe that restic is used in any of the typical plastic model topics - aircraft, cars, armor or ships.  The fantasy figure market, including the examples the Baron mentioned, has always been on an edge.  Perhaps tooling is cheaper with non-polystyrene materials, and cheaper tooling allows more variety with less risk for the manufacturer.

And you meanioned many kickstarter projects - I have heard of one in the ship area, and no others.  Do you have examples?

Rick

A friend participates in kick starter programs for fantasy wargaming figs, and they look pretty nice.  The only downside is that the plastic they use is soft and flexy like those old army man toys.  He cleans it up pretty good though, and once painted up they look fantastic.

I have only heard of one or two small model kit companies that do kickstarters.  Wait, didn’t Airfix also do a kickstarter program, to gauge interest in re-releasing oldy moldy kits?  But anyway, the big boys usually don’t do it.

The steel molds for a good sized injection kit runs upwards of $100K+ so it would be hard to crowd fund something like that.